[Matroska-general] Re: Streaming mpeg4 video, ogg container

Atamido paul at msn.com
Mon Jul 11 07:42:25 CEST 2005

Stephen Birch wrote:
> ChristianHJW(christian at matroska.org)@2005-07-09 20:46:
>>MPEG4 video in OGG container is nothing but a hack without real specs, 
>>called OGM, and without any support from Xiph. None of the existing OGG 
> I read through the ogg specs and it seems to be a well designed
> container capable of carrying any audio/visual content.  Its also KISS
> which I like a great deal.

Well, sorta.  Ogg was designed specifically to carry Vorbis.  And while 
I prefer the design principles of Matroska more, Ogg has a lower 
overhead for low-bitrate audio, like Vorbis.

Beyond Vorbis, there are specifications for Ogg to also include the 
audio codecs Speex and Flac, and the video codecs Theora and Tarkin 
(non-existent).  No other audio or video codecs have specs for placement 
in Ogg.

OGM is an interesting hack to get codecs supported by VFW (Video For 
Windows) into an Ogg stream.  It is more or less just wrapping AVI 
inside of Ogg.  There are a few problems with this, including 
ridiculously high overhead.  But the primary problem is this "method" 
exists nowhere in the official specs, and in fact doesn't really have 
any specs to speak of.

As far as KISS, there are other solutions that fit this model much 
better than OGM.

>>streaming servers ( Icecast ) support this. You should definitely use 
>>DARWIN and the MP4 container for that, or at least matroska in native 
> I couldn't find specs for the "MP4 container" either.  I was actually
> hoping to use theora.  I am sick to death of technology being built on
> patented software.

You have to pay money to get a hold of the specs for MP4 from the ISO. 
(Or know what to search for in Google)  If you are using Theora, this a 
codec that is native to Ogg, so you shouldn't have an issue with it.

> Matroska ... who is behind that one?  I see you are the project admin,
> but what is it all about?

Matroska is a project to develop an open container that is free for 
anyone to use.  It was designed specifically to be a general container 
for playback and editing, however it shouldn't have any issues with 
being used for streaming video.

> Thanks for answering, Christian.  Streaming video isnt rocket science
> and I am irritated by the high degree of confusion out there.

There is a lot of confusion, and getting it to work can be a real pain 
in the butt.  But if you are willing to put in the time, you can really 
do a lot.


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