[Matroska-devel] Hi, question about the MKV tags

Steve Lhomme slhomme at matroska.org
Sun Jan 30 18:46:40 CET 2011

Please reply on the mailing list if you really want everyone's point of view.

On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 5:02 PM, Boris Juraga <boris.juraga at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 4:01 PM, Steve Lhomme <slhomme at matroska.org> wrote:
>> I cc the official mailing list so that more people can take part in
>> the discussion.
>> On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 2:41 PM, Boris Juraga <boris.juraga at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi there, i have seen this example and many more, and even got to the
>>> specifications and eve broke out the hex editor and started building a
>>> tag reader for Matroska....
>>> What i needed were the tags ORIGINAL_MEDIA_TYPE and CONTENT_TYPE at
>>> http://www.matroska.org/technical/specs/tagging/index.html so i can
>>> classify my videos and later build a MKV media library
>> So they are there. What is missing then ?
> What is missing is the top devs agreeing on standardized members like
> for the  ORIGINAL_MEDIA_TYPE i propose there are: TV, DVD, VCD,
> BLU-RAY, CAMERA, OTHER(SPECIFY). i hope you understand what i am
> trying to say here. So then i can make my MKV Media Library classified
> by TV.

OK, so you want fixed values that anyone can rely on. Am I correct.
Well there are already some values proposed. If you want to add more
to the list, feel free to propose more values.

> After that CONTENT_TYPE i propose there are tags like: SHOW, MOVIE,
> OTHER(SPECIFY) so if i have a MOVIE that i recorded from TV i will be
> able to clasiffy it proper. Searching trough media library organized
> like that wold be perfect for me and i hope for all others out there.

Well, the values should not be in all uppercase. For Movie it's
already there called "Feature Film".
But you have to keep in mind that no field has a finished set of
values. It can evolve in time. So if you design a tag system, you
should not expect ONLY some pre-defined values. But obviously it's
best if people use the predefined values when they exist.

> I can do it now but i would like some predefined tags so i dont create
> tags that only i and my software will read, and someone else creates
> his own tags in future.
>>> I think you at Matroska need to set atleast some standards, or this
>>> contaier will decay as many others. I know it is mass used and all its
>>> "features" are great for me - but they are all just on paper, no app
>>> uses tags, and many more features MKV is capable of. Why is that? I
>>> would really appreciate few simple answers so i know is it worth it
>>> for me to build apps around MKV. By worth it i mean my time not money
>>> in any way, i love programing
>> Well the success of Matroska is not based on tags. In fact right now
>> nobody cares about tags. That's a PITA when you see so many
>> hardware/PCs acting as media centers and there is no proper way to
>> tell what file is what. This is precisely why tags exist in Matroska
>> but we don't make all these softwares, we can only propose the specs
>> and hope they will support it in a decent way. It worked for other
>> Matroska features so hopefully it should work with that one too...
>> It's a chicken and egg problem. One has to start somewhere.
> "Well the success of Matroska is not based on tags." I am well aware
> of that, but it is a feature in Matroska that is maybe the most
> neglected. I was hoping that part of the creators of Matroska are
> people building the software around it, but Matroska is over 8 years
> old now and not much going on i software around it. It is as you are
> satisfied with the success now, and stopped caring for the future,
> that is the scary thing and i think that is the reason no one is going
> on to support features that exist only on paper as specs. I hoped
> there will be more for this in C# as i am experienced in it. I guess i
> will have to make a new library alone that will support the Matroska
> container, not transferring AVI's in Matroska containers, as many
> people still confuse container and codec and think that is what
> Matroska is.

There is already a lot to deal with. And I personally push for tags
every time I have the occasion, even for WebM. Tags alone is a huge
task. I've thought many times of making a proper tag editor, but I
have to finish libebml2 and libmatroska2 first. If someone else want
to pick the task, they are welcome and I will help where I can.

>>> I need someone from your team to tell me what is there for Matroska in
>>> C#(C Sharp)? Can you provide me with a mechanism for reading tags, or
>>> maybe entire Matroska file and build a "map"of all the elements?
>> I am not sure there are much code doing Matroska in C# but here is one:
>> https://matroska.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/matroska/trunk/mkNETtools/
>> Googling "Matroska c#" will probably give you more results.
>> Steve
>>> I will be expecting your answer
>>> Boris Juraga
>>> On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 2:30 PM, Steve Lhomme <slhomme at matroska.org> wrote:
>>>> Hello Boris,
>>>> Did you have a look at this page ?
>>>> http://www.matroska.org/technical/specs/tagging/example-video.html
>>>> There are ways to classify TV episodes in an unambiguous way. There
>>>> are already some TV episodes in MKV on the net that use this system.
>>>> Let me know if you have any questions or how your project goes.
>>>> Tagging Matroska files properly and classifying is certainly something
>>>> that is missing badly nowadays.
>>>> Steve Lhomme
>>>> On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 2:53 PM, Boris Juraga <boris.juraga at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I have a small question to ask about the tags for the MKV file (or MKA
>>>>> in that matter):
>>>>> Is there a way of "classifying" the files for example like the WMV
>>>>> files can be using the Zune tag editor?
>>>>> What i like to be able to do is classify my ONE-EPISODE-PER-MKV file
>>>>> as a VIDEO-TVSHOW [major group - minor group]
>>>>> My idea would be to have some predefined way of classifying the MK*
>>>>> files as: VIDEO, AUDIO, OTHER, and the VIDEO files as minor: MOVIE,
>>>>> TVSHOW, MUSIC (for music videos), PERSONAL, OTHER
>>>>> I dont see option how to achieve this with the current tagging system,
>>>>> if there is a way please let me know
>>>>> I am willing to make a tag editor for MKV/MKA files as i have
>>>>> experience in C# and have already done few projects with MKV
>>>>> I will be expecting your answer,
>>>>> Boris Juraga
>>>> --
>>>> Steve Lhomme
>>>> Matroska association Chairman
>> --
>> Steve Lhomme
>> Matroska association Chairman

Steve Lhomme
Matroska association Chairman

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