[Matroska-devel] EBML Namespaces
haessije at eps.e-i.com
Wed Apr 26 10:00:14 CEST 2006
> BTW, while backward compatibility is the goal we should think
> about all the possible options without that in mind. Then
> we'll see all that is possible and only then if it's worth to
> keep compatibility or not.
Yes. Since we agreed that the seeking issue should preferably
be handled by EBML itself, lots of options have re-opened in my
> Why do you want to remove the ID ? As seen below there are
> different options of where we could put it.
What I mean by "removing" the Namespace-ID is that the
application (e.g. Matroska) does not have to know which
namespace ID it is using in the file. To put it simpler :
multiple vocabularies from different applications can be
multiplexed inside one file, without colliding thanks to
the use of namespaces.
The lowlevel EBML parser's job will be to demultiplex the
elements from different vocabularies and feed them to the
correct application. Since the namespace information is only
a means to multiplexing, it is not forwarded to the application
and therefore "removed".
Below is a schematic of my idealized vision of the EBML logical
Lowlevel / \
parser --------->| | X application
______ __ /elements | |
| | / \ / in NS X \_____/
| |----->| |---- _____
| | | |---- elements / \
|______| \__/ \in NS Y | | Y application
EBML File ^| ---------->| |
Notification||in EBML NS ^
about NS || |
registration|| _____ |EBML API
&state after|| / \ |e.g. seeking
seeking |*-->| |<--------*
*----| | EBML application
A plain old EBML application (e.g. Matroska) without namespaces
Would extend the EBML application.
A new one (with namespace support) would implement a new
application module and register to the lowlevel parser.
Now where do I see the NS IDs precisely ?
[Length Descriptor][Namespace][Class Value]
The lowlevel parser reads the length descriptor and extracts
the value bits (NS+CLASS). In these bits are the namespace of
the element and the class ID value. Before the parser tries
to decode the NS, all the possible NS values that this element
may use must be known to the parser (that's somewhat obvious,
but it doesn't mean that NS definitions have to physically be
written before the element using them -- think XML ;).
The possible NS values must be prefix codes, this allows the
parser to scan the values bits from left to right and exactly
know when the NS ID ends. The rest of the value bits are the
Class-ID value which is forwarded to the corresponding
Examples with 3 namespaces :
0 : EBML
10 : NSX
11 : NSY
0x8F = 0b10001111 Namespace : EBML
LNVVVVVV Class-ID value : 15(dec)
0xDB = 0b11011011 Namespace : NSX
LNNVVVVV Class-ID value : 27(dec)
0x7D09 = 0b01111101 00001001 Namespace : NSY
LLNNVVVV VVVVVVVV Class-ID value : 3337(dec)
> Now instead of using another byte (or more) instead of
> splitting the IDs we could reuse bits in the data length. It
> would be no more backward compatible as using bits in the IDs
> but there would be more room for improvement (as the size is
> known to be encoded in different byte sizes).
Yes, this is more or less what I've thought for class-IDs. But
unlike class-ids, the size field is vital to parse the file
(a 'dumb' parser that doesn't interpret the meaning of the
elements wouldn't be affected by a change in the IDs but would
stop working if the encoding of sizes changed).
> > EBML is supposed to be a byte-aligned format and it would
> > require at least 1 extra byte for each element. This is not
> > bad in itself, but it would waste a great amount of bits,
> > since I do not expect files with more than 5 mixed namespaces
> > to be frequent. Therefore, I expect the namespace value to take
> > up to 3 bits in most cases, this is why I try to pack it into
> > an existing field.
> Well, what happens when you need 6 or 7 ? You don't have any
> more bits left. Adding another byte or 2 gives room for
When I say that I do not expect files using more than 5 namespaces
to be frequent it doesn't mean that I want to disallow files which
need to use more... It only means that we should be able to encode
the NS on less than 1 byte (preferably only 2 or 3 bits) for the most
frequent case. Cases requiring 300+ simultaneous namespaces will
still be allowed, but they will use more bits (8,9,10,more) to
express the namespace of the various contained elements.
Moreover, even if we have files using many namespaces, I really
doubt they will massively mix them -- a localized use of some
namespace is more likely. Therefore we should definitely have
some namespace switching feature, and namespace IDs should not
be globally fixed for a given file.
> I'm not too concerned about the overhead because right now if
> you need a lot of IDs you need to use 2 octets long ones.
> While with a namespace most IDs for each namespace won't need
> a lot of room (127 possibilities for Class A IDs). So in the
> end there should be a good balance.
EBML is a wonderful structured format. I don't mean to restrain
format writers from defining the format they like, but using a
lot of IDs in some flat space is not what I would call good
engineering. As for XML, I think the tree-like encapsulating
structure of EBML must be used. Instead of defining 16k 2-byte
IDs, one had better categorizing and grouping them : 1100 2-byte
IDs, each containing 15 1-byte elements would definitely do the
job. And from the overhead POV, it's better since 1-byte
elements are much more used than 2-byte ones.
Of course, if some format demands a flat space for any technical
reason, it's possible, but one should be warned about a possible
> Using 3 bits in the ID header would reduce the number of
> possible Class A IDs of a format to 2^4-1 = 15 ! That's too
> small IMO. So I think adding another bit will give us more
> freedom and space and almost no cost.
With a variable-width NS-ID embedded in the ID header, a
separation in classes is less relevant. In cases where only 2
namespaces are used, only 1 bit is needed, thus 6 bits are left
to encode the element ID value. Format writers should be aware
that element IDs ranging from 0 to 63(dec) use at least 1 byte,
maybe more, depending on the number of namespaces actually in
use. For example, if the namespace ID for one element uses 2
bits, element ID values ranging from 32 to 4095 will need 2
bytes. If the namespace ID 3 bits, element ID values ranging
from 16 to 2047 will need 2 bytes, and element ID values
ranging from 2048 to 262143 will need 3 bytes, etc...
The following chart summarizes how much bytes are required to
encode an element ID assuming various NS ID lengths. In fact
it could be a little smarter than that (there are still some
wasted bits but for the moment I don't know what to do with
|NS ID Length Bytes Required ------->
v 1 2 3 4 5
0 0-127 128-16383 16384-2097151 2097152-268435455 268435456-34359738367
1 0-63 64-8191 8192-1048575 1048576-134217727 134217728-17179869183
2 0-31 32-4095 4096-524287 524288-67108863 67108864-8589934591
3 0-15 16-2047 2048-262143 262144-33554431 33554432-4294967295
4 0-7 8-1023 1024-131071 131072-16777215 16777216-2147483647
5 0-3 4-511 512-65535 65536-8388607 8388608-1073741823
6 0-1 2-255 256-32767 32768-4194303 4194304-536870911
7 * 1-127 128-16383 16384-2097151 2097152-268435455
8 * 1-63 64-8191 8192-1048575 1048576-134217727
Also, I don't intend to change the Reserved Values : these are still
127,16383,2097151,268435455,34359738367, etc, regardless of the
inserted NS ID.
> > You seem to be prepared to make big changes to the format,
> but I don't
> > know to what extent whe should break compatibility...
> Again, for current Matroska files it shouldn't be a problem
> as matroska would be the default namespace. In that case the
> namespace shouldn't be used for such IDs. That means older
> files will play without any problem in namespace-aware
> parsers. Only newer files containing some namespace will not
> be usable by older parsers. Which AFAIK is the same with what
> you propose.
> BTW, we still haven't discussed how to define the namespace
> in the EBML header, but the DocType existing today will
> remain. And that is the way to define the special namespace
> that will be used as default... The other namespaces will
> probably fall back in an list. It's like the DocType in XML
> (like html). At least we got the right name for that field ;)
I understand that you are referring to a "default" namespace as
in XML. Well, that's not how I see it. If there is some kind of
default namespace i.e. not expressed for elements in this
namespace we still need a way to tell that the namespace value
is present or absent. I intend to have two kinds of files :
* Files without namespaces, i.e. NS length = 0. This
mathematically forbids the presence of namespaces since the
empty code is a prefix for all codes.
* Files using namespaces, i.e. NS length >= 1. There can be
only 2 namespaces (0 & 1, each using one bit), or more, as
seen in the previous examples, but each element holds a
> You want to use external files ? I don't really understand.
> The namespace 'tagging' of each element/ID has to be done
> inside the file...
I expressed myself really poorly. I hope that the previous
paragraph put that clear.
> Yes that would be a limit but seeking in a file format is a
> very special feature not used a lot for most formats. It
> makes sense in A/V formats where there is a timeline, but
> then you need to know the semantic to know what you're
> looking for when seeking.
A good seeking feature could be quite useful in applications
without a timeline : large images can be tiled and zooming to
a precise position can be sped up by seeking info indexed by
(x,y) coordinates. Databases using EBML would clearly benefit
from seeking features. I think I could find many other
> When I read that it made me think of XPath in XML. I have no
> idea of how it works for XML but it seems an extension used
> to define pointers between elements and/or documents (one
> direction or bidirectional). And that's something that could
> make sense at the EBML level too. That wouldn't be backward
> compatible, but depending on the solution we come up with, it
> could be a good replacement.
First, XML doesn't work with offsets, and I think it is quite
impossible to use raw XML files and randomly seek through them.
If such functionality is needed, one first has to read the
entire document into memory. XPath works on paths (heh ;) but
can also number elements if they have the same name. You can
get the 3rd foo child node from node bar with bar/foo AFAIR.
If another foo element is inserted before, the pointer won't
point to the correct foo anymore, unless the program that
added it also modified the XPath pointer.
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