[Matroska-devel] PixiShow & ChronoSub

liisa seelie at faireal.net
Thu Jun 30 21:32:22 CEST 2005


Luca Della Santina <lucads at email.it> wrote:

> >At least you MUST escape &, <, and > as &, <, and >
> >and single-quote character (') MAY be represented as "'"
> >http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml/#syntax
> >
> >Otherwise, general XML parsing lib will be foobered and complain 
> >it's not a well-format xml.
> >  
> >
> I'll change ChronoSub according to your suggestions as soon as possible, 
> Thank you.

Maybe you can add more white spaces for better readability.

IIRC, the current ChronoSub doesn't put \r\n in USF,
so the resulted USF is quite messy--a single, very long line,
which is machine-readable, but not really human-readable.

> >I have yet another big question about ChronoSub.
> >Doesn't it have [G]?--I mean [G] as in Sub Station Alpha or in 
> >Sabbu, the key to "Grab" the timing.
> >I can edit things on ChronoSub but I cannot time from WAV,
> >which means, basically no fansubbers will use this.
> >  
> >
> In ChronoSub there is no need of a [Grab] button: After you created a 
> new script and opened the audio file for timing, simply select the audio 
> interval of the sentence you want to sub, then write the spoken text in 
> the dialogue textbox and hit Enter key (in the dialogue textbox), a new 
> subtitle with the selected time interval will be added to the list, 

Well, that's not how subbing is supposed to work, at least among 
typical (english-language) anime fansubbers. What's actually 
done is, as you might already know well...
(1) A translator makes a script in .txt. He/she can concentrate 
on translating. (i.e. meaning of the conversations etc)
(2) An editor edits (1). He/she can concentrate on editing. 
(expression, grammar, typo)
(3) A timer times (2) converting it into ssa/ass. He/she can 
concentrate on timing without bothring about other things.
(4) A typesetter typesets (3). He/she can concentrate on it.
(5) An encoder encode/mux with (4). He/she can concentrate on it.
(6) A QCer QCes (5). He/she can concentrate on it.

You are assuming the same person will do (1) and (2) and (3) at 
the same time on ChronoSub, which is possible but not very 
efficient. One thing at one time is a better way.

I know at least one team used Medusa,
but at this rate, only a few fansub teams will use ChronoSub,
and many ohters won't even know the existance of USF.

However, ChronoSub might be good for 'homeusers' who do 
everything alone, not wanting high quality.

> quite faster than having to press [Grab] everytime.

I doubt it. Let's say, you can translate a 30-min anime 
ep in 3 hours if you don't have to time it. Then a timer can 
time it in 15 ~ 45 min, using the one-finger method in Sub 
Station Alpha or in Sabbu. So the total cost is 3.5 hours.

If you do the same thing (translating+timing) on ChronoSub,
it'll take more time, maybe 4-5 hours? since both translating 
and timing need high concentration and you'll get easily tired, 
and get slow down.

You don't have to "click" [Grab] everytime. You can just hit [G] 
like in Vi Editor. Hitting a single key in the home position 
is the fastest after all. Besides, how can you Karaoke in 
ChronoSub?

> Similarly, you can change a certain subtitle's timing by selecting the 
> subtitle from the grid, changing the audio start/end points from the 
> waveform displayer and hitting Enter key in the text dialogue, the 
> current line will be updated with the new times (or the new dialogue if 
> you changed it).

Can't you do [D] (play the last 0.5sec of the selection) on 
ChrnoSub for instance?  Are you forced to listen to the entire 
selection of WAV for a line, to check the timing for it?

An experienced timer can decide the Start/End time just by 
listening to the first and last 0.5 sec of the 10 sec selection. 
In other words, you can time a 10 sec line within a few second.
So I won't agree with your "quite faster than..." because your 
method will take at least 10 sec to time a 10 sec line.

If what you said were true, fansubbers (especially speed subbers) 
would be using ChrnoSub by now, because it would be "quite 
faster" than using Sub Staion Alpha etc.

In reality that never happens, because that's not true.

Please don't misunderstand me: I'm not saying ChrnoSub is 
useless. It has a few nice features that Sub Station Alpha 
didn't have, like Unicode Support (altho Sabbu is already better).

What I'd really like to say is, ChrnoSub could be even better 
and would be accepted by general subbers if it had keyboard 
shortcuts like Sub Staion Alpha's [A][S][D][F][G].
Sub Station Alpha can time more than one methods--you can do 
everything by mouse clicks (slower but easier for new users);
or you can use keyboard shortcuts (needs some practice but much 
faster).
It'll be nice if ChronoSub had similarly several timing methods, 
so that the user could choose the best one for him/her...

Best regards

Liisachan





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