[Matroska-devel] DVDtoOGM with Matroska support
moritz at bunkus.org
Sat Nov 1 14:52:24 CET 2003
This conversation took place today:
.12:21:42.< DVDtoOgm> Hi...
.12:23:52.< DVDtoOgm> ChristianHJW available?
.12:24:28.< alex_here> wake him up :p
.12:24:43.< DVDtoOgm> oh... sleeping :-)
.12:25:06.< DVDtoOgm> do you know when he's usually here?
.12:25:14.< alex_here> what do you need him for?
.12:25:33.< DVDtoOgm> talking about DVDtoOgm and Matroska...
.12:25:49.< alex_here> you don't need him for that :)
.12:25:51.<@Mosu> he's in china at the moment,
.12:26:09.< DVDtoOgm> wow... seems to be far away from talking with me :-)
.12:26:13.<@Mosu> but he's online from time to time
.12:26:32.< DVDtoOgm> well might be hard to catch this time
.12:26:56.< DVDtoOgm> when will he return from there? do you know?
.12:27:21.< alex_here> another question: what does he know what we don't?
.12:27:32.< DVDtoOgm> well, let me tell you:
.12:28:09.< DVDtoOgm> He asked me, if I'm interested in making DVDtoOgm (maybe with another name) to the official Matroska support tool...
.12:28:25.< DVDtoOgm> and he invited me to come here...
.12:28:31.< alex_here> The tool as in 'the one and only'?
.12:29:07.< DVDtoOgm> well, somethink like this...
.12:29:39.< alex_here> omg
.12:29:57.<@Mosu> oyg? :)
.12:30:09.< DVDtoOgm> we had a german conversation via eMail and he posted some requests in the official german DVDtoOgm-Frounm
.12:30:14.< DVDtoOgm> Forum, sorry
.12:30:20.< alex_here> what does he always need such things for :(
.12:30:30.< DVDtoOgm> for what?
.12:30:34.< alex_here> can you give a link?
.12:30:50.< DVDtoOgm> forum or DVDtoOgm-Homepage?
.12:30:54.<@Mosu> the latter
.12:30:57.< alex_here> forum
.12:31:02.<@Mosu> doh :)
.12:31:06.<@Mosu> for both, then ;)
.12:31:08.< alex_here> better just the corresponding thread
.12:31:17.< DVDtoOgm> second..
.12:31:31.< DVDtoOgm> (its german, remember) :-)
.12:31:42.-!- P0l1m0rph1c [~Dcoder at CC-3BB7AC4E.telepac.pt] has joined #matroska
.12:31:49.< alex_here> solange es nicht chinesisch ist...
.12:32:20.< DVDtoOgm> http://www.flaskmpeg.info/board/thread.php?threadid=3885&sid=
.12:32:24.<@Mosu> solange is uns das schon recht ;)
.12:32:26.< DVDtoOgm> na also...
.12:32:44.< DVDtoOgm> das klingt doch gut... und ich brech mir hier einen in englisch ab...
.12:33:08.< DVDtoOgm> naja, es kommen auch noch ein paar eMail dazu, die er geschrieben hat.
.12:33:23.<@Mosu> offizielle sprache des channels is auch englisch ;)
.12:33:25.-!- jcsston_zZz [jcsston at 207534E3.F8ECB96B.1AF242AD.IP] has joined #matroska
.12:33:35.< alex_here> "das klingt doch gut... und ich brech mir hier einen in englisch ab..." <= liegt daran, daß es unfreundlich ist, deutsch zu reden, weil das hier net jeder kann
.12:33:42.-!- jcsston_zZz is now known as jcsston
.12:33:42.< alex_here> französisch ginge also notfalls auch noch ;)
.12:33:46.<@Mosu> wir haben zu viele franzosen, die kein deutsch koennen (und zu viele amis, die ebenfals kein deutsch koennen ;))
.12:33:47.< DVDtoOgm> Homepage von DVDtoOgm ist http://DVDtoOgm.DivX-Digest.com
.12:33:56.< DVDtoOgm> ok, then back to english...
.12:34:02.< DVDtoOgm> I'll try...
.12:34:22.< alex_here> ?????? :)
.12:34:35.<@Mosu> ah. well something like dvdtoogm is still missing for matroska, that's true
.12:34:55.<@Mosu> as gknot won't have matroska support soon
.12:35:22.< DVDtoOgm> yes... I'm very close to a new release, which will try to come close to the features that are offered by GKnot...
.12:35:36.< alex_here> yeah...this guy does not get the fact the matroska overhead prediction is not done using a simple formula :(
.12:35:47.< alex_here> the=that
.12:35:52.< DVDtoOgm> Then I would be very interested in a full MKV support, which is atm not very good...
.12:36:01.<@Mosu> great to hear :)
.12:36:12.< DVDtoOgm> BUT:
.12:36:21.<@Mosu> everything you've listed on the 'was ist dvdtoogm?' page is definitely possible with matroska
.12:36:46.< DVDtoOgm> Christian told me DVDtoOgm have to be open-source for that...
.12:37:00.* alex_here has read that thread :o
.12:37:17.< DVDtoOgm> and thats not really what i want it to be... :-)
.12:37:21.<@Mosu> if you 'only' use other open source tools, e.g. my mkvmerge, then it's not required, i think
.12:37:33.<@Mosu> but if you re-use our code then your code has to be gpl'ed as well
.12:38:03.< DVDtoOgm> all, used in Code used in DVDtoOgm is self coded...
.12:38:13.< alex_here> really?
.12:38:13.< DVDtoOgm> or I asked for permission...
.12:38:13.<@Mosu> judging from the 'was ist dvdtoogm' page i'd say that calling an external app would suffice for all those tasks
.12:38:23.< alex_here> you don't use libvorbis and such crap?
.12:39:02.< DVDtoOgm> well just a Mpeg2Dec.dll and some external Tools like VDubMod...
.12:39:09.< DVDtoOgm> no libvorbis so far...
.12:39:21.< DVDtoOgm> (MKV support is just about to start)
.12:39:32.< alex_here> without libmatroska, right? :D
.12:39:55.< DVDtoOgm> you just can choose mkv output...
.12:39:56.<@Mosu> i think dvdtoogm does not write ogm files itself but haves other apps do that for it
.12:40:03.<@Mosu> haves !?
.12:40:09.<@Mosu> am i totally brain damaged now?
.12:40:11.< DVDtoOgm> VirtualDubMod
.12:40:12.< alex_here> ah
.12:40:31.< alex_here> "Mosu am i totally brain damaged now?" <= :)
.12:40:35.<@Mosu> so yes, matroska could be realized in the same way then without your code having to be open source
.12:40:46.< alex_here> "DVDtoOgm VirtualDubMod " <= i hope you don't use those builds which write b0rked files
.12:41:06.<@Mosu> alex_here: i'm fighting with/against automake at the moment, so every mistake i make here is already excused ;)
.12:41:10.< alex_here> http://www.flaskmpeg.info/board/thread.php?threadid=3875&sid=50423e391c98b3367dac176cba742902 <= lol
.12:41:11.< DVDtoOgm> The new DVDtoOgm Release 1.40 (out soon)
.12:42:04.< DVDtoOgm> uses VDubMod 1.5.4
.12:42:12.< alex_here> which one?
.12:42:18.< alex_here> builds 2092 and earlier are b0rked
.12:42:18.< DVDtoOgm> after I requestsd the spli feature...
.12:42:38.< DVDtoOgm> it is 2092
.12:42:45.< alex_here> :-)
.12:42:53.< DVDtoOgm> but a update is no problem...
.12:42:57.< alex_here> this one suffers from a b0rk in libebml :D
.12:43:01.< alex_here> good
.12:43:15.< DVDtoOgm> its not released yet...
.12:43:20.<@Mosu> ah yes, after having read the thread i know why christian insisted on opensource software
.12:43:31.<@Mosu> well i personally don't think it's THAT bad
.12:43:38.<@Mosu> because you're not one of our core members
.12:43:46.< alex_here> he's a bit paranoid
.12:44:06.<@Mosu> so if you write some closed-source app no one can say that we (as in 'the core matroska devels') want world domination and a shitload of money
.12:44:06.< DVDtoOgm> I can understand him, but I'm not really interested in doing so out of 2 reasons...
.12:44:10.< alex_here> he even protested when i added possibilities to intentionally write b0rked files for testing purposes in avi-mux gui
.12:44:51.-!- Toff_eating is now known as Toff
.12:45:18.< DVDtoOgm> well so I'll be glad to help Matroska with DVDtoOgm, but I dislike to go open source for this...
.12:45:40.<@Mosu> i think we can come to an agreement here
.12:45:42.< DVDtoOgm> if a closed source tool is ok, I would be VERY happy to help...
.12:45:54.<@Mosu> i'd say 'yes'
.12:46:02.<@Mosu> and we'll convince chris, too
.12:46:10.< DVDtoOgm> yes to closed sourse?
.12:46:13.< DVDtoOgm> source
.12:46:26.< DVDtoOgm> that sounds nice...
.12:46:30.<@Mosu> but lemme get this straight
.12:46:38.< DVDtoOgm> yes?
.12:46:50.<@Mosu> your app calls external apsp for most of the work, e.g. muxing, extracting etc?
.12:47:00.< DVDtoOgm> yepp....
.12:47:07.<@Mosu> ok, then closed source ain't a problem for me
.12:47:16.< DVDtoOgm> you can easily compare DVDtoOgm to Gordian Knot...
.12:47:24.<@Mosu> that's what i thought
.12:47:27.< DVDtoOgm> just for Ogm...
.12:47:31.<@Mosu> i just wanted to make sure
.12:47:58.< DVDtoOgm> maybe you should download DVDtoOgm and have a look at it...
.12:48:06.< DVDtoOgm> (a older release)
.12:48:07.<@Mosu> i usually don't use windows ;)
.12:48:15.< DVDtoOgm> oh :-)
.12:48:31.< DVDtoOgm> but very much people do so :-)
.12:48:42.<@Mosu> i know :)
.12:48:48.< DVDtoOgm> ok...
.12:48:50.< DVDtoOgm> so:
.12:49:37.< DVDtoOgm> I'll release DVDtoOgm 1.40 (which is almost finished...) and after this we'll work on Matroska support...
.12:49:40.< DVDtoOgm> :-)
.12:49:45.<@Mosu> sounds great
.12:49:50.< DVDtoOgm> Hust an important note:
.12:49:55.< DVDtoOgm> Hust -> Just
.12:50:19.< DVDtoOgm> My knowledge about coding is not sooo good...
.12:50:38.< alex_here> that's more than Christian :)
.12:50:42.< DVDtoOgm> I learned in school and the rest I thought myself..
.12:51:04.< alex_here> the only thing I was *taught* is Haskell
.12:51:16.< alex_here> you can't be taught coding
.12:51:22.< DVDtoOgm> slowly I'm rewriting parts of DVDtoOgm to make them better, but I'm still not a hero on coding...
.12:51:29.<@Mosu> hey, if you've gotten so far with dvdtoogm then the rest won't be much harder
.12:51:43.< DVDtoOgm> Hehe, nice to hear :-)
.12:51:56.<@Mosu> don't worry, not everyone here is the Superhero of Effective Coding either ;)
.12:52:01.< DVDtoOgm> DVDtoOgm is in Delphi (like you might guessed)
.12:52:09.< alex_here> omg :p
.12:52:32.< DVDtoOgm> ok, this sounds all very good...
.12:52:59.< DVDtoOgm> So, next problem:
.12:53:12.< DVDtoOgm> Never worked with Mkv bevore :-(
.12:53:29.< DVDtoOgm> I just concentrated on ogm, so what are the current features?
.12:53:33.< Rounin> Anyone wanna come up with a name for my text editor? (Sorry to interrupt, btw)
.12:54:53.< DVDtoOgm> ???
.12:55:18.< Rounin> Yeah, that could work
.12:55:24.<@Mosu> Rounin: how about 'puke'? :)
.12:56:02.< jcsston> or 'Runny' ?
.12:56:05.< DVDtoOgm> Äh?!?
.12:56:05.< Rounin> T_T Beautiful...
.12:56:19.<@Mosu> DVDtoOgm: well basically it can do everything ogm can do and then some. implemented in various tools are e.g. realvideo, usual mpeg4 video, ac3/aac/mp3/dts/vorbis/realaudio, srt subs, ssa subs, vobsubs, chapters, tags
.12:56:21.< DVDtoOgm> So what about the features of Mkv for now...
.12:56:21.< Rounin> Hahaha... I'm actively considering that last one
.12:56:34.< DVDtoOgm> ah...
.12:56:35.< DVDtoOgm> THX
.12:57:03.< DVDtoOgm> That sounds good...
.12:57:04.<@Mosu> vdubmod can handle most of them, mkvmerge can handle all of those
.12:57:25.<@Mosu> mkvmerge is a command line program for creating matroska files
.12:57:38.<@Mosu> alex_here's avi-mux gui is a gui app for the same purpose
.12:57:46.< DVDtoOgm> Ok, so the handling of Ogm and MKV in VDubMod ist the same=
.12:57:47.< Rounin> Äh is go... I wonder if I could find some Swedish phrase to make it into an acronym
.12:57:48.< DVDtoOgm> ?
.12:58:10.<@Mosu> basically yes, but i'm no expert on this topic
.12:58:16.<@Mosu> you'd have to ask cyrius when he's here
.12:58:26.<@Mosu> which is usually afternoon/evenings
.12:58:33.< DVDtoOgm> ok, got to chat with Cyruis again, he :-))
.12:58:59.< alex_here> "Ok, so the handling of Ogm and MKV in VDubMod ist the same=" <= not really. You should not even dream about joining several mkv files into one file using vdm
.12:59:09.< DVDtoOgm> we had a lot a conversation already...
.12:59:39.< DVDtoOgm> so no muxing with VirtualDubMod?
.12:59:44.< DVDtoOgm> for Mkv?
.12:59:59.< alex_here> muxing ey
.13:00:02.< alex_here> yes
.13:00:09.< alex_here> but don't use MKV as input
.13:00:24.< DVDtoOgm> well, input would be avi...
.13:00:27.<@Mosu> that wouldn't be necessary, i think
.13:00:32.<@Mosu> so yes, vdubmod can be used
.13:00:33.< alex_here> good
.13:00:37.<@Mosu> talk to cyrius ;)
.13:00:56.< DVDtoOgm> jepp, I'll do so, after DVDtoOgm 1.40 is out...
.13:01:30.< DVDtoOgm> This sounds all very nice... we just need a Name :-))))
.13:02:00.< DVDtoOgm> DVDto -> OGM <- wouldn't be best!
.13:02:34.< alex_here> DVDtoAVI :)
.13:02:45.< DVDtoOgm> why that?
.13:02:53.-!- bond [~bond at CC-E4F8D42.adsl.univie.ac.at] has quit 
.13:02:56.< DVDtoOgm> DVDto???
.13:03:03.< alex_here> because I like AVI :)
.13:03:22.-!- superdump [~Robert at 213FF3BD.86FDEB6A.1A13A32B.IP] has quit [Connection reset by peer]
.13:03:31.< DVDtoOgm> yeah well, the name should not be of what you like and what you don't ;-)
.13:03:48.< DVDtoOgm> ok... so lets stop here... i got work to do...
.13:03:49.<@Mosu> DVDtoSomethingBetter ;)
.13:03:51.<@Mosu> me too
.13:03:59.<@Mosu> have to go to minimal
.13:04:09.< DVDtoOgm> well check that all in about 2-3 weeks :-9
.13:04:58.< DVDtoOgm> Thank you, for this information... and habe a chat to christian about this open source stuff :-)
.13:05:11.<@Mosu> i'll write an email, too, with this conversation
.13:05:15.-!- Insolit [~81.84.13. at 3402A868.16EA7345.340977B5.IP] has quit [Ping timeout]
.13:05:19.< DVDtoOgm> Good bye... Thx for help!
.13:05:24.<@Mosu> anyway, be back later
.13:05:26.<@Mosu> you're welcome
.13:05:27.< DVDtoOgm> @ Mosu: THX
.13:05:27.-!- You're now known as MosuAway
.13:05:35.< DVDtoOgm> CU
I've expressed my thoughts already during the conversation, but I really
don't see that DVDtoOGM going OpenSource should be a neccessity. He'll
just use our _apps_, not our _code_. This project could be a good
replacement for GKnot's Matroska support which is not coming. And no one
can really accuse us in this case 'cause it's a totally different
project/person who will use our tools. We (as in 'the core Matroska
devels') are all OpenSource. A ClosedSource app is going to use our
tools. So what?
My vote is 'go for it!'.
==> Ciao, Mosu (Moritz Bunkus)
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