From Paul at msn.com Sat May 1 09:49:10 2004 From: Paul at msn.com (Paul) Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 07:49:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: Where do we go from here ? References: <408E1690.1070207@free.fr> <408E1D07.4010401@free.fr> Message-ID: Steve Lhomme wrote: >> Any input is *highly* welcome. (I will post mine next) > > So from this spare time, what can we do ? What is needed ? > > First, my personal needs : > - capture TV into Matroska (DirectShow based) > - capture DV into Matroska (with an efficient Matroska handling) > - reencode these captures to smaller MKV > - burn MKV movies as DVDs > - Musepack (MPC) in MKV/MKA > - support for MKA in iTunes I don't do analog captures or have a video camera to edit DV from. I also do very little audio work, for instance I have never actually used MPC. However, I would like to have all of my albums stored in single MKA's. I would also like to be able to play them within Winamp. (Its evil, but I prefer playback within Winamp 2.xx as its simpler and/or less overhead than other players.) But my personal wants for Matroska right now are: - Good MPEG-2 support - Editing of VFR MKV files These two items are actually linked. There are two basic sources for MPEG-2 for me, and they make for different requirements. The first is DVD. It would be great to be able to copy the DVD streams directly into a Matroska file with the option to be able to remove the RFF flag. This would save you much of the problem with mixed content DVDs where it switches between interlaced and progressive. You could also add/remove streams to your hearts content, and mix the original audio and/or video with whatever other encoded methods that you prefer. The second source of MPEG-2 is digital broadcast. The benefits that apply to putting DVD material into Matroska also apply for broadcast material. However, there are also some other major benefits. Broadcast material is subject to a lot of data errors. This can create problems when trying to transcode the material to another format, or even just playing back the recorded MPEG data. Some utilities/players handle some types of error better than others. You end up trying different ones to see which has the most success with the error contained in it. There are also several different MPEG-2 stream types (containers), depending on the source. So, a utility is needed that reads the data stream and copies MPEG-2 video frames into Blocks with the correct timecode for that frame. If a frame, or group of frames is to badly corrupted to isolate the frame data, it would be skipped, and that time would be left blank. The same would apply to the audio data. This would let you create an error free data stream to work from where all of the data is properly synched. It would also be a common system that a proper editor should be able to handle. Speaking of proper editors, we need one that will edit MKV files. As it stands, VDM is the only editor, and it requires a constant framerate file. Matroska needs an editor that can support its advantage of timestamped based blocks. > Some of these could be done with GStreamer. And the advantage of > GSTreamer is that it may be working on Linux, Windows, OS X somedayfrom > the same code. So any tools based on these would probably be portable > too. I am not qualified at all to say how feasible GStreamer is for this purpose. But with the time that people have spent recently looking at it, I think there is a real possibility. I don't know how flexible you would want to make the GStreamer editor, but it should make it more powerful if it were designed specifically to edit Matroska files. Just import whatever type of stream into a Matroska file, and then use the editor to edit it. Then there is no need to worry about compatibility with other container formats. You can create files of whatever nature you want. Pamel From steve.lhomme at free.fr Tue May 4 12:58:41 2004 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 12:58:41 +0200 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: [Matroska-devel] LinuxTAG 2004: Free Video Booth In-Reply-To: <20040504115550.1a40d5eb@caprice.artificis.hu> References: <20040504115550.1a40d5eb@caprice.artificis.hu> Message-ID: <40977761.604@free.fr> I'd really like to go ! But not alone from Matroska :( (otherwise it's only people I don't know) Alex Beregszaszi wrote: > Hi, > > "Diego Biurrun and myself from MPlayer are thinking about organizing > this > year a big common booth among video related open source projects." > > The booth is just organized, some questions are still open. > > 1, If you want to participate and would stay more than a day, please > reply if you need accomodation. The event offers sleeping place, but you > need to get a sleeping bag tho. Breakfast is available also for > 3euro/day. > > 2, We need to get a projector/beamer. > > 3, What presentations would you like to do? > > Please reply ASAP! > From Liisachan at faireal.net Wed May 5 07:53:35 2004 From: Liisachan at faireal.net (Liisachan) Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 14:53:35 +0900 Subject: [Matroska-general] Where do we go from here ? Message-ID: <4098815F.5030308@faireal.net> some random requests as a Windows User: - USF subs in Matroska - Updated OggMuxer to so we can set info like the language for the track (NOTE: OGMmuxer can do that in GraphEdit) - Ogg Theora in Matroska - APE in Matroska - MusePack in Matroska :) * Greets * Liisachan From Liisachan at faireal.net Wed May 5 08:00:03 2004 From: Liisachan at faireal.net (Liisachan) Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 15:00:03 +0900 Subject: [Matroska-general] Where do we go from here ? Message-ID: <409882E3.5050800@faireal.net> >- Updated OggMuxer to so we can set info like the language for the track (NOTE: OGMmuxer can do that in GraphEdit) Sorry i meant "Updated MatroskaMuxer" which enable us to set lanugae tags Ofcoz MKVMerge is more than enough for most cases, but sometimes one needs GraphEdit for various reasons Liisachan From suiryc at yahoo.com Wed May 5 10:30:42 2004 From: suiryc at yahoo.com (Cyrius) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 01:30:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Matroska-general] Where do we go from here ? In-Reply-To: <4098815F.5030308@faireal.net> Message-ID: <20040505083042.45913.qmail@web12904.mail.yahoo.com> Hi --- Liisachan wrote: > - Updated OggMuxer to so we can set info like the language for the > track > (NOTE: OGMmuxer can do that in GraphEdit) *cough* Which programs are you talking about ? :>> There are 3 different tools - OggMux, made by Koepi, using OggDS filters from DShow, with a nice GUI :p. Needless to say it run under Windows ;) - ogmmerge, made by Mosu. Standalone tool working under *nix - OGMuxer, made by some fool. Standalone tool working under Windows (a next version that can be compiled for *nix too is planned). Now, OggMux allow to set the language of the tracks. OGMuxer also allow it even it's a bit harder (you need to set a comment which tag is LANGUAGE). And ogmmerge also allow you to set comments for the tracks. :) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From suiryc at yahoo.com Wed May 5 10:32:19 2004 From: suiryc at yahoo.com (Cyrius) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 01:32:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Matroska-general] Where do we go from here ? In-Reply-To: <409882E3.5050800@faireal.net> Message-ID: <20040505083219.5671.qmail@web12907.mail.yahoo.com> --- Liisachan wrote: > >- Updated OggMuxer to so we can set info like the language for the > track > (NOTE: OGMmuxer can do that in GraphEdit) > > Sorry i meant "Updated MatroskaMuxer" which enable us to set lanugae > tags > > Ofcoz MKVMerge is more than enough for most cases, > but sometimes one needs GraphEdit for various reasons > > Liisachan Ah I was also wondering why you were talking about OGM tools in this ML :) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From chris at matroska.org Wed May 5 11:24:04 2004 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 11:24:04 +0200 Subject: [Matroska-general] Where do we go from here ? In-Reply-To: <4098815F.5030308@faireal.net> References: <4098815F.5030308@faireal.net> Message-ID: <4098B2B4.7000106@matroska.org> Liisachan wrote: > some random requests as a Windows User: > - USF subs in Matroska > - Updated MatroskaMuxer to so we can set info like the language for > the track > (NOTE: OGMmuxer can do that in GraphEdit) > - Ogg Theora in Matroska > - APE in Matroska > - MusePack in Matroska > :) > * Greets * > Liisachan I second all of this requests from Liisachan, maybe with the exception of APE. Honestly, since FLAC has such nice support in matroska already ( thanks to Jory ), and when looking at the very small differences between all the lossless codecs, i wonder if we need anything else but FLAC ? APE is even closed source, only the SDK to use it is open, should we really support that ? If there is something in the audio compression world i am really interested in, besides MPC of course, its David Bryant's Wavpack 4, because of its high-bitrate lossy mode, but of course that only me. About USF support in matroska : Well, i honestly hope unmei will have the necessary time and motivation to look at that one day, because Toff doesnt seem to be really interested in his baby anymore :( ..... neither does he finish the specs, nor does he care about matroska muxing .... of course, you know i am a mean guy now, because we all know Toff is working like crazy on TCMP5 ;-) .... Christian From steve.lhomme at free.fr Wed May 5 11:28:32 2004 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 11:28:32 +0200 Subject: [Matroska-general] Where do we go from here ? In-Reply-To: <4098B2B4.7000106@matroska.org> References: <4098815F.5030308@faireal.net> <4098B2B4.7000106@matroska.org> Message-ID: <4098B3C0.2020706@free.fr> Christian HJ Wiesner wrote: > I second all of this requests from Liisachan, maybe with the exception > of APE. Honestly, since FLAC has such nice support in matroska already ( > thanks to Jory ), and when looking at the very small differences between > all the lossless codecs, i wonder if we need anything else but FLAC ? > APE is even closed source, only the SDK to use it is open, should we > really support that ? The real problem here is "cross-platform" (and maybe framing). > If there is something in the audio compression world i am really > interested in, besides MPC of course, its David Bryant's Wavpack 4, > because of its high-bitrate lossy mode, but of course that only me. No, I'm in too :D From chris at matroska.org Wed May 5 11:32:16 2004 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 11:32:16 +0200 Subject: [Matroska-general] Request : GUI for WMV/ASF transmuxing into MKV Message-ID: <4098B4A0.6000200@matroska.org> Hi, another job for something who is up to make a nice GUI : http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=487263#post487263 Its possible to transmux M$ WMV/ASF files into MKV using Graphedit, but who is up to the job to make a nice little GUI for that, so people dont need to mess with Graphedit ? Christian From christophe.paris at free.fr Wed May 5 12:14:32 2004 From: christophe.paris at free.fr (Christophe PARIS) Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 12:14:32 +0200 Subject: [Matroska-general] Where do we go from here ? In-Reply-To: <4098B2B4.7000106@matroska.org> References: <4098815F.5030308@faireal.net> <4098B2B4.7000106@matroska.org> Message-ID: <4098BE88.6020001@free.fr> Christian HJ Wiesner wrote: > I second all of this requests from Liisachan, maybe with the exception > of APE. Honestly, since FLAC has such nice support in matroska already ( > thanks to Jory ), and when looking at the very small differences between > all the lossless codecs, i wonder if we need anything else but FLAC ? > APE is even closed source, only the SDK to use it is open, should we > really support that ? APE is not closed source, you maybe be mixing up with optimfrog. > If there is something in the audio compression world i am really > interested in, besides MPC of course, its David Bryant's Wavpack 4, > because of its high-bitrate lossy mode, but of course that only me. One more good point for wavpack is the BSD licence. > About USF support in matroska : > Well, i honestly hope unmei will have the necessary time and motivation > to look at that one day, Where are you living ? in China or what ? ;) He is already working on it :p http://usf.corecodec.org/usf_0.17proposal4.html > because Toff doesnt seem to be really > interested in his baby anymore :( ..... neither does he finish the > specs, nor does he care about matroska muxing .... To have Matroska muxing, first the spec need to be finished. That mean it need to be finished and then read by several people to see if there is no b0rk and if it's consistant. But as you know it's quite hard to get people to comment specs. And also having a complete enough renderer is of higher priority than Matroska muxing IMO. And most important thing it needs to be competitive enough. > of course, you know i > am a mean guy now, because we all know Toff is working like crazy on > TCMP5 ;-) .... shhhhht it's top secret :> From steve.lhomme at free.fr Wed May 5 12:37:47 2004 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 12:37:47 +0200 Subject: [Matroska-general] Where do we go from here ? In-Reply-To: <4098BE88.6020001@free.fr> References: <4098815F.5030308@faireal.net> <4098B2B4.7000106@matroska.org> <4098BE88.6020001@free.fr> Message-ID: <4098C3FB.2090005@free.fr> Christophe PARIS wrote: > > because Toff doesnt seem to be really > > interested in his baby anymore :( ..... neither does he finish the > > specs, nor does he care about matroska muxing .... > > To have Matroska muxing, first the spec need to be finished. That mean > it need to be finished and then read by several people to see if there > is no b0rk and if it's consistant. But as you know it's quite hard to > get people to comment specs. > And also having a complete enough renderer is of higher priority than > Matroska muxing IMO. > And most important thing it needs to be competitive enough. Maybe you could get inspired by Matroska and implement a first step of what it should be, either as a renderer and muxed in Matroska. Then you can add features later. And get more feedback on what you did. From chris at matroska.org Wed May 5 15:45:17 2004 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 15:45:17 +0200 Subject: [Matroska-general] Where do we go from here ? In-Reply-To: <20040505201828Pu6xwL@faireal.net> References: <4098815F.5030308@faireal.net> <4098B2B4.7000106@matroska.org> <20040505201828Pu6xwL@faireal.net> Message-ID: <4098EFED.7090309@matroska.org> Liisachan wrote: >Christian HJ Wiesner wrote: > >>I second all of this requests from Liisachan, maybe with the exception >>of APE. Honestly, since FLAC has such nice support in matroska already ( >>thanks to Jory ), and when looking at the very small differences between >>all the lossless codecs, i wonder if we need anything else but FLAC ? >>APE is even closed source, only the SDK to use it is open, should we >>really support that ? >> >> >Well, unlike FLAC, APE is not always backward compatible, >so it is true that FLAC is "safer" >But APE is generally smaller (i.e. higher compress ratio) than >FLAC, and because of that reason, APE is used more than FLAC is. > > Question : I can see lossless audio in MKV only as a temporary solution for capturing or editing, but not really for archiving ? Am i wrong ? Do you know of anybody who would like to have his audio lossless compressed in a movie, and why ? >Since there are already (more than one) DirectShow Filters for >APE, I guess APE support in MKV would be not too difficult > (tho, technically, I m not sure...) >NOTE: This does not mean I don't like FLAC and/or CoreFlac. >I do like CoreFlac, even tho the current version is still beta. >I do like FLAC, even tho the spec for Ogg Flac is now being a >bit confused. >Anyway, I just mean it would be nice if users have a lot of >choices. > > ACK ... matroska is all about choices and freedom, so i second that ..... but its hard to motivate the devs to do this, when there are so many other, maybe more important things to be done at the same time. >>About USF support in matroska : >> >>Well, i honestly hope unmei will have the necessary time and motivation >>to look at that one day, >> >> > >Well, I'm afraid it's unfair to say that. >Please look at this thread: >http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73417&perpage=20&pagenumber=1 >His newest post in dated 1/5/2004 >Liisachan > > > Jesus, i complete missed out on this thread to be honest :O ...... in other words, i had no idea there is actually something happening about USF ... good news, thanks for pointing me to that !!! Best regards Christian From steve.lhomme at free.fr Wed May 5 16:27:23 2004 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 16:27:23 +0200 Subject: [Matroska-general] Where do we go from here ? In-Reply-To: <4098EFED.7090309@matroska.org> References: <4098815F.5030308@faireal.net> <4098B2B4.7000106@matroska.org> <20040505201828Pu6xwL@faireal.net> <4098EFED.7090309@matroska.org> Message-ID: <4098F9CB.3000104@free.fr> Christian HJ Wiesner wrote: > Question : > > I can see lossless audio in MKV only as a temporary solution for > capturing or editing, but not really for archiving ? Am i wrong ? Do you > know of anybody who would like to have his audio lossless compressed in > a movie, and why ? For a movie no, because most of the sources are not in this format anyway. But for authoring yes (is there a video editor planned ?). And for audio albums too ! From Liisachan at faireal.net Wed May 5 16:52:29 2004 From: Liisachan at faireal.net (Liisachan) Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 23:52:29 +0900 Subject: [Matroska-general] Where do we go from here ? In-Reply-To: <4098EFED.7090309@matroska.org> References: <20040505201828Pu6xwL@faireal.net> <4098EFED.7090309@matroska.org> Message-ID: <20040505235229iFkZWm@faireal.net> Christian HJ Wiesner wrote: > Liisachan wrote: > > >Christian HJ Wiesner wrote: > > > >>I second all of this requests from Liisachan, maybe with the exception > >>of APE. Honestly, since FLAC has such nice support in matroska already ( > >>thanks to Jory ), and when looking at the very small differences between > >>all the lossless codecs, i wonder if we need anything else but FLAC ? > >>APE is even closed source, only the SDK to use it is open, should we > >>really support that ? > >> > >> > >Well, unlike FLAC, APE is not always backward compatible, > >so it is true that FLAC is "safer" > >But APE is generally smaller (i.e. higher compress ratio) than > >FLAC, and because of that reason, APE is used more than FLAC is. > > > > > Question : > > I can see lossless audio in MKV only as a temporary solution for > capturing or editing, but not really for archiving ? Am i wrong ? Do you > know of anybody who would like to have his audio lossless compressed in > a movie, and why ? > > >Since there are already (more than one) DirectShow Filters for > >APE, I guess APE support in MKV would be not too difficult > > (tho, technically, I m not sure...) > >NOTE: This does not mean I don't like FLAC and/or CoreFlac. > >I do like CoreFlac, even tho the current version is still beta. > >I do like FLAC, even tho the spec for Ogg Flac is now being a > >bit confused. > >Anyway, I just mean it would be nice if users have a lot of > >choices. > > > > > ACK ... matroska is all about choices and freedom, so i second that > ..... but its hard to motivate the devs to do this, when there are so > many other, maybe more important things to be done at the same time. > > >>About USF support in matroska : > >> > >>Well, i honestly hope unmei will have the necessary time and motivation > >>to look at that one day, > >> > >> > > > >Well, I'm afraid it's unfair to say that. > >Please look at this thread: > >http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73417&perpage=20&pagenumber=1 > >His newest post in dated 1/5/2004 > >Liisachan > > > > > > > Jesus, i complete missed out on this thread to be honest :O ...... in > other words, i had no idea there is actually something happening about > USF ... good news, thanks for pointing me to that !!! > > Best regards > Christian HJ Wiesner wrote: > Question : > > I can see lossless audio in MKV only as a temporary solution for > capturing or editing, but not really for archiving ? Am i wrong ? Do you > know of anybody who would like to have his audio lossless compressed in > a movie, and why ? Oh come on....Matroska is not only for movies, but you can make a big MKA for a whole CD, for instance. Browse http://anime.mircx.com/ or somewhere, and you'll soon find that many ppl prefer to have their music all in APE, than MP3 etc. Not only that, but - if you capture classic music concert from TV - if you rip a music video DVD, where the audio is LPCM probably you would think to yourself like this, wouldn't you? "The audio is most important, here. It's OK that the video part is poorer (like 300Kbps), but I'd like to have the music track at the best quality possible (like 600Kbps)" Because "music" is obviously more important here than the vid of the orchestra or the movement of conductor's butt :) Classic music can be lossless if you're ok with 400-500 Kbps, while the best MP3 is 320 Kbps. In other words, lossless is not so "expensive" bitrate-wise. However 400-500 is still not very cheap anyway. 400 should be better than 450, 450 should be better than 500. "10% smaller" is someting if you are talking about 500Kbps, and if it is not temporary (If temporary, WAV is enough, isnt it?) That's why people use APE, not FLAC. On the other hand, like you said, FLAC is better than APE when it comes to real-time capturing. Because FLAC is less cpu-intensive than APE at the cost of lower compression ratio. So, FLAC has its forte (not cpu-eating) and APE has its own forte too (considerably smaller in size) Personally I like FLAC and I have no personal reason to urge you to support APE, but anyway APE has its own goodness > ACK ... matroska is all about choices and freedom, so i second that > ..... but its hard to motivate the devs to do this, when there are so > many other, maybe more important things to be done at the same time. I can understand you. I'm not saying APE should be at the priority 1 I guess MusePack support would be at the higher priority. > Jesus, i complete missed out on this thread to be honest :O ...... in > other words, i had no idea there is actually something happening about > USF ... good news, thanks for pointing me to that !!! :) Actually, for most end-users, APE or MPC support would be much meaningful than USF support, but yes, as I am a subber, I do have some personal reasons to ask you devs to support USF asap. My hope is, USF will be the real x-platform Unicode sub format. There might be a long way to go, tho. I'm continuously testing the newest version of VLC, but its SSA support is not perfect, to say the least. So I guess SSA softsubs, being really great in MKV played on Windows, might be troublesome on other platforms. Even on Windows, i heard font-embedding only works on Win2k/xp, not win98. I'm not sure if USF is "the" sub format. Plus, it is obvious that you cannot start working on USF unless the spec is decided. Anyway USF seems to be interesting and somehow promissing. As a side note, xiph.org seems to have changed the spec of Ogg so it can now support overlapped timing in subs. They have OggWrit, which will be perfectly x-platform. If MKV's SSA support on non-windows machine is not too good, and if OggWrit is really xplatform and fantastic, probably many fansubbers will be interested in OggWrit. (I don't know about OggWrit too well, so I may be guessing in a wrong way) Plus, sub support is essential in hw support for MKV. not only VOB but MP4 has its sub specs too. Im guessing that MKV too should have its "native" sub format. Liisachan From steve.lhomme at free.fr Wed May 5 17:50:13 2004 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 17:50:13 +0200 Subject: [Matroska-general] Where do we go from here ? In-Reply-To: <20040505235229iFkZWm@faireal.net> References: <20040505201828Pu6xwL@faireal.net> <4098EFED.7090309@matroska.org> <20040505235229iFkZWm@faireal.net> Message-ID: <40990D35.5040205@free.fr> Liisachan wrote: >>>Well, unlike FLAC, APE is not always backward compatible, >>>so it is true that FLAC is "safer" >>>But APE is generally smaller (i.e. higher compress ratio) than >>>FLAC, and because of that reason, APE is used more than FLAC is. http://members.home.nl/w.speek/comparison.htm From this page, it seems APE is equivalent to WavPack (unless you use the extra high option). But Dave Bryant made Wavpack 4.0 more container compliant (clean framing). It's still beta, but will be added to Matroska ASAP. http://web.inter.nl.net/users/hvdh/lossless/lossless.htm From this one it seems that APE is doing better for the compression/speed ratio than WavPack. It should be interresting to know about WavPack 4.0. So maybe it's the best alternative to FLAC ? We should contact the people behind APE to know if it's frame-friendly... From Liisachan at faireal.net Wed May 5 18:04:53 2004 From: Liisachan at faireal.net (Liisachan) Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 01:04:53 +0900 Subject: [Matroska-general] Where do we go from here ? In-Reply-To: <40990D35.5040205@free.fr> References: <20040505235229iFkZWm@faireal.net> <40990D35.5040205@free.fr> Message-ID: <20040506010453MO4p'%@faireal.net> > http://members.home.nl/w.speek/comparison.htm > > From this page, it seems APE is equivalent to WavPack (unless you use > the extra high option). But Dave Bryant made Wavpack 4.0 more container > compliant (clean framing). It's still beta, but will be added to > Matroska ASAP. Sounds promissing. I'd like to test WavPack too. Well, however, APE is better for classic music than Wavpack, at least in the past test. http://www.firstpr.com.au/audiocomp/lossless/ Would it be too much to ask to support all the 3--FLAC WavPack and APE? :D Liisachan From yusaku at anime.cz Thu May 6 10:06:55 2004 From: yusaku at anime.cz (Yusaku) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 17:06:55 +0900 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: USF Specs (was Where do we go...) References: <4098815F.5030308@faireal.net> <4098B2B4.7000106@matroska.org> <4098BE88.6020001@free.fr> Message-ID: > > About USF support in matroska : > > Well, i honestly hope unmei will have the necessary time and motivation > > to look at that one day, > > Where are you living ? in China or what ? ;) > He is already working on it :p > http://usf.corecodec.org/usf_0.17proposal4.html I took a glimpse at the specs and the DTD, and I must say that IMO at current state it lacks the most in the area that has the biggest potential to gain from XML format - the ammount of text effects usable is relatively small - basicaly scale, font weight, outlines, shadow. Ok, my random thoughts: Even at current ASS specs implementation, the format allows for wider palette of effects due to a lot of functions. Functional approach is very bad idea for XML, though, so I would propose adding a 4D OpenGL style transformation matrix of 16 float numbers to the "fontstyle" element. With default matrix (1 on diagonals, 0 elsewhere) the rendering would work as before. With different coefficients, the position, rotation, size, side etc. (all possible stretchings, movings, ...) could be realized without the need for zillions of rotation and scaling functions. Possibly also make some matrix aliase names (like "MirrorByXAxis") and aliases with smaller matrices with only some parameters to be filled left (rotate by X degrees in direction of x/y/z) for people using notepad and not graphic editor - but after some experience 4D matrices are not too evil, so it is just optional. The implied matrice algebra is quite neat (already have nice effect but need to rotate it to fit on shopsign in scene? Just multiply by position/rotation matrix - currently IMPOSSIBLE in ass) scale-x and scale-y could be dropped, absolute positioning could be left as override for final positioning for effects (redundant, but convenient). This way, defining of style like "Star wars banner text" would be possible without too much trouble (major pain in ASS, although possible) Yusaku PS: I hope unmei is reading this - I do not have his email... PPS: Having 3D control over integrated SVG would be quite neat as well - imagine the effect possibilities ;) PPS: Reread #3 - rotation is possible even now, but having the matrice as a parameter of "PositionAtributeList" instead of current set of random parameters copying ASS would be neat - there are a lot of possible positionings not covered by current list From theo_brendel at hotmail.com Thu May 6 15:35:22 2004 From: theo_brendel at hotmail.com (Steven Mingam) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 15:35:22 +0200 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: Where do we go from here ? References: <4098815F.5030308@faireal.net> Message-ID: There is an Theora alpha 3 encoder in FFvfw and it's decoded by FFdshow :) so it can be put in matroska in vfw compatibilty mode, fourcc should be THEO. For a "native" mode, I looked a little into the sourcecode of libtheora, and it looks like the only change they did to vp3 was to have theora be really dependent on the ogg format :-/ and btw, quality isn't great at all. "Liisachan" a ?crit dans le message de news: 4098815F.5030308 at faireal.net... > some random requests as a Windows User: > - USF subs in Matroska > - Updated OggMuxer to so we can set info like the language for the track > (NOTE: OGMmuxer can do that in GraphEdit) > - Ogg Theora in Matroska > - APE in Matroska > - MusePack in Matroska > > :) > > * Greets * > Liisachan From moritz at bunkus.org Thu May 6 20:10:56 2004 From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 20:10:56 +0200 Subject: [Matroska-general] mkvtoolnix 0.8.9 released Message-ID: <20040506181056.GJ22839@bunkus.org> Hi guys & maintainers, here's another release, 0.8.9, due to a whacky bug which busted RealMedia handling - again. Sorry for that. Here's the... ...homepage: http://www.bunkus.org/videotools/mkvtoolnix/ ...source: http://www.bunkus.org/videotools/mkvtoolnix/sources/mkvtoolnix-0.8.9.tar.bz2 ...Windows binary: http://www.bunkus.org/videotools/mkvtoolnix/win32/mkvtoolnix-0.8.9.rar ...RedHat/FedoraCore and SuSE packages: (these are still being built but should be available shortly) ...ChangeLog since 0.8.8: -------------------------------- 2004-05-06 Moritz Bunkus * Released v0.8.9. * mmg: new feature: mmg will ask for confirmation before overwriting a file. This can be turned off on the settings tab. 2004-05-04 Moritz Bunkus * mmg: new feature: Implement drag'n'drop of files onto the input, attachment and chapter tabs. For the input and attachment tabs it works like pressing the 'add' button. On the chapters tab it works like calling 'Chapter Editor -> Open'. 2004-05-02 Moritz Bunkus * mkvinfo/mmg: Enabled compilation with wxWidgets 2.5 and Unicode enabled builds of wxWidgets. 2004-04-30 Moritz Bunkus * all: Increased the precision for timecodes in chapter files to nanoseconds (optionally, you can still use fewer digits after the '.'). 2004-04-26 Moritz Bunkus * mkvmerge: Fixes for compilation with gcc 3.4. 2004-04-24 Moritz Bunkus * mkvmerge: bug fix: Some strings read from RealMedia files were not zero-terminated resulting in broken track recognition for some files. ------------------------- Have fun. Mosu -- If Darl McBride was in charge, he'd probably make marriage unconstitutional too, since clearly it de-emphasizes the commercial nature of normal human interaction, and probably is a major impediment to the commercial growth of prostitution. - Linus Torvalds From steve.lhomme at free.fr Mon May 10 09:52:04 2004 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 09:52:04 +0200 Subject: [Matroska-general] Slow move to free Message-ID: <409F34A4.5040900@free.fr> http://msdn.microsoft.com/vbasic/ Microsoft starts offering more and more developer tools for free. Maybe the IDE of VB.Net can be used with the free edition of VC++ 2003 ? After all there are free developer tools for Linux and OS X, maybe it's time Microsoft offers it for free to avoid developers going the other way... From steve.lhomme at free.fr Mon May 10 10:03:51 2004 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 10:03:51 +0200 Subject: [Matroska-general] Free software opening Message-ID: <409F3767.8070504@free.fr> http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=6989 I'm glad someone like Miguel thinks that porting softwares to Windows is important too to make OSS better. Even Apple is porting more and more softwares to Windows to attract people to their technologies. /me eyes at GStreamer on Windows :) From steve.lhomme at free.fr Mon May 10 10:11:15 2004 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 10:11:15 +0200 Subject: [Matroska-general] Free software opening In-Reply-To: <409F3767.8070504@free.fr> References: <409F3767.8070504@free.fr> Message-ID: <409F3923.8010302@free.fr> Steve Lhomme wrote: > http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=6989 > > I'm glad someone like Miguel thinks that porting softwares to Windows is > important too to make OSS better. Even Apple is porting more and more > softwares to Windows to attract people to their technologies. > > /me eyes at GStreamer on Windows :) I missed that part !!! "Near the end of our meeting, we asked Miguel to consider developing a home video editor, as part of Novell's new desktop initiative. Miguel acknowledged the need for such a tool on Linux that is well-designed and usable by normal users, but he mentioned that "in the F/OSS world things are created only if the developer needs them"" From steve.lhomme at free.fr Thu May 13 11:48:06 2004 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:48:06 +0200 Subject: [Matroska-general] Future of programming Message-ID: <40A34456.30605@free.fr> Interresting read : http://www.third-bit.com/~gvwilson/xmlprog.html "Attempts to stick to simple on-or-off options lead to monsters like gcc, which now has so many flags that programmers are using genetic algorithms to explore them [Ladd]". From steve.lhomme at free.fr Thu May 13 14:14:33 2004 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 14:14:33 +0200 Subject: [Matroska-general] New Meeting Message-ID: <40A366A9.5000909@free.fr> Hi, I think it would be nice to have a new meeting to discuss the future of Matroska and all our sides projects. Would tomorrow (european) evening fit everyone ? In particular I would also like to discuss the disappearance of the server we use for the Matroska pack and other stuff. Could we host that content on CoreCodec or should we pay for another host (I can if it's not too much) ? From moritz at bunkus.org Thu May 13 14:25:19 2004 From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 14:25:19 +0200 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: [Matroska-devel] New Meeting In-Reply-To: <40A366A9.5000909@free.fr> References: <40A366A9.5000909@free.fr> Message-ID: <20040513122519.GE22839@bunkus.org> i, > I think it would be nice to have a new meeting to discuss the future of > Matroska and all our sides projects. Would tomorrow (european) evening > fit everyone ? I will probably not be present. My diploma thesis has to be done by Monday, so I won't have much of a mind for these things, sorry. > In particular I would also like to discuss the disappearance of the > server we use for the Matroska pack and other stuff. Could we host that > content on CoreCodec or should we pay for another host (I can if it's > not too much) ? Oh? Didn't know we had problems with the server. What is it? Too much traffic? Mosu -- If Darl McBride was in charge, he'd probably make marriage unconstitutional too, since clearly it de-emphasizes the commercial nature of normal human interaction, and probably is a major impediment to the commercial growth of prostitution. - Linus Torvalds From steve.lhomme at free.fr Thu May 13 14:37:52 2004 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 14:37:52 +0200 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: [Matroska-devel] New Meeting In-Reply-To: <20040513122519.GE22839@bunkus.org> References: <40A366A9.5000909@free.fr> <20040513122519.GE22839@bunkus.org> Message-ID: <40A36C20.5090408@free.fr> Moritz Bunkus a ?crit : >>I think it would be nice to have a new meeting to discuss the future of >>Matroska and all our sides projects. Would tomorrow (european) evening >>fit everyone ? > > > I will probably not be present. My diploma thesis has to be done by > Monday, so I won't have much of a mind for these things, sorry. Great ! That means you'll have more time afterward ;) Seriously I hope it works well for you. >>In particular I would also like to discuss the disappearance of the >>server we use for the Matroska pack and other stuff. Could we host that >>content on CoreCodec or should we pay for another host (I can if it's >>not too much) ? > > > Oh? Didn't know we had problems with the server. What is it? Too much > traffic? No idea. Atomic could say more about it. But it's supposed to be off by the middle of June IIRC. From moritz at bunkus.org Thu May 13 15:25:37 2004 From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 15:25:37 +0200 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: [Matroska-devel] New Meeting In-Reply-To: <40A36C20.5090408@free.fr> References: <40A366A9.5000909@free.fr> <20040513122519.GE22839@bunkus.org> <40A36C20.5090408@free.fr> Message-ID: <20040513132537.GF22839@bunkus.org> Hi, > Great ! That means you'll have more time afterward ;) We'll see ;) There's still the presentation left that I'll have to do about it, but overall the situation should improve. Not next week though, too much to do. > No idea. Atomic could say more about it. But it's supposed to be off by > the middle of June IIRC. I've found it in the logs: .17:20:12. @ChrisHJW:: atomic_ will only have the server until 27th May .17:20:22. @ChrisHJW:: we have to get all our data from there I can't provide hosting for the packs myself, the traffic is too much. Mosu -- If Darl McBride was in charge, he'd probably make marriage unconstitutional too, since clearly it de-emphasizes the commercial nature of normal human interaction, and probably is a major impediment to the commercial growth of prostitution. - Linus Torvalds From spyder at matroska.org Fri May 14 03:16:56 2004 From: spyder at matroska.org (John Cannon) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 20:16:56 -0500 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: [Matroska-devel] New Meeting In-Reply-To: <40A366A9.5000909@free.fr> References: <40A366A9.5000909@free.fr> Message-ID: <40A41E08.6010700@matroska.org> Steve Lhomme wrote: > Hi, > > I think it would be nice to have a new meeting to discuss the future > of Matroska and all our sides projects. Would tomorrow (european) > evening fit everyone ? > > In particular I would also like to discuss the disappearance of the > server we use for the Matroska pack and other stuff. Could we host > that content on CoreCodec or should we pay for another host (I can if > it's not too much) ? > > _______________________________________________ > Matroska-devel mailing list > Matroska-devel at lists.matroska.org > http://lists.matroska.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/matroska-devel > I will be home at about 1pm my time, that's about 20:00 your time IIRC. But next week I should have no problem with any time :) My last final is tomorrow morning. John From tronic at trn.iki.fi Fri May 14 00:37:39 2004 From: tronic at trn.iki.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_K=E4rkk=E4inen_/_Tronic?=) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 01:37:39 +0300 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: [Matroska-devel] New Meeting In-Reply-To: <40A366A9.5000909@free.fr> References: <40A366A9.5000909@free.fr> Message-ID: <40A3F8B3.4040401@trn.iki.fi> > I think it would be nice to have a new meeting to discuss the future of > Matroska and all our sides projects. Would tomorrow (european) evening > fit everyone ? Very good time for me. I have the last exam today (9-13 EET) and only one (not tightly scheduled) project work after that => I'm free 14+ EET. In particular, I'd like to discuss the future of EBML. A schema format would need to be defined, as well as new data types and structures (references?). - Tronic - -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 256 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From steve.lhomme at free.fr Fri May 14 09:51:22 2004 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 09:51:22 +0200 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: New Meeting In-Reply-To: <40A3AC2E.5060209@free.fr> References: <40A366A9.5000909@free.fr> <20040513122519.GE22839@bunkus.org><40A36C20.5090408@free.fr> <20040513132537.GF22839@bunkus.org> <40A3AC2E.5060209@free.fr> Message-ID: <40A47A7A.8000801@free.fr> Steve Lhomme wrote: > Paul Bryson wrote: > >> "Moritz Bunkus" wrote... >> >>> I can't provide hosting for the packs myself, the traffic is too much. >> >> >> >> Bah, 80GB/month is nothing. ;) > > > I'm currently looking for alternative solutions. I have already found > some with unlimited and fast traffic. We would have complete (root) > control on a Debian machine. I have found a few options to do that. Now > let's see if we can merge costs with CoreCodec... OK, after discussing with the CoreCodec people (Cytoplas and Betaboy) it seems that they can't really provide the bandwidth for us and they don't want to move their servers to another place. Also the bigger issue in the Intellectual Property and patent covered binaries. As CC is hosted in the USA they are much more subject to Cease and Disist letters and maybe harder actions. So it's just not possible to host certain binaries there, nor anywhere else in the USA (otherwise that would just be the same). So where does it leave us ? We need our packs the way they are, because otherwise it's a mess for lambda users to have something working. And we are working for the users... So we need a place that could provide the bandwidth and traffic for our packs. The options I can see : - free.fr : it was the place where it used to be, and I don't remember the reason why we left. Can anybody enligthen me ? - SourceForge : after all they are hosting so many stuff that might infringe patents, we don't really care for the time being - Leased dedicated server : we could administer our own site the way Mosu uses his one. I've checked some places in France and some are really cool. But we may have software patents in Europe very soon. So I think it should be good to look further like in Russia, India, China or whatever where patent claims are less likely to happen. So what do everyone thinks about it ? I don't think there is such a pressure to go hosting our stuff overseas. After all noone threaten to sue us and we are not that big right now (it will be time to move later when needed). From mike at po.cs.msu.su Fri May 14 11:52:29 2004 From: mike at po.cs.msu.su (Mike Matsnev) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:52:29 +0400 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: New Meeting In-Reply-To: <40A47A7A.8000801@free.fr> References: <40A366A9.5000909@free.fr> <20040513122519.GE22839@bunkus.org><40A36C20.5090408@free.fr> <20040513132537.GF22839@bunkus.org> <40A3AC2E.5060209@free.fr> <40A47A7A.8000801@free.fr> Message-ID: <40A496DD.3070509@po.cs.msu.su> Steve Lhomme wrote: > OK, after discussing with the CoreCodec people (Cytoplas and Betaboy) it > seems that they can't really provide the bandwidth for us and they don't > want to move their servers to another place. Also the bigger issue in > the Intellectual Property and patent covered binaries. As CC is hosted > in the USA they are much more subject to Cease and Disist letters and > maybe harder actions. So it's just not possible to host certain binaries > there, nor anywhere else in the USA (otherwise that would just be the > same). I think I can provide the space and bandwidth on one of my machines. /Mike From renekoch at e-divx.at Fri May 21 21:50:05 2004 From: renekoch at e-divx.at (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9_Koch?=) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 21:50:05 +0200 Subject: [Matroska-general] What's wrong with matroska.org? Message-ID: <010201c43f6c$d0720e10$5ef698d4@scratpc> Hey! What's wrong with the official matroska-hompage www.matroska.org ? I can't open this site but the subdomains http://lists.matroska.org or http://packs.matroska.org work fine. By the way I also can't open www.corecodec.org . cu, scrat -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steve.lhomme at free.fr Sun May 23 10:01:17 2004 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 10:01:17 +0200 Subject: [Matroska-general] Doing business Message-ID: <40B05A4D.70303@free.fr> While I was reading this interresting (long) article I had an idea : http://www.delilah.itcsalvemini.org/lust/GNU-Articles/New%20World%20Order.html "I think that in general, people would rather pay for an easy-to-use product, than to get a product for free, and require expensive support." To be able to spend time on a software you need money, or the project will evolve very slowly (unless you only have unemployed developers which tends to be less and less true within our small community). So one way or another we need to make business. There are different ways and CoreCodec manages to make a few with TCMP but not enough at all. So we need to find other ways. Right now we have nothing to sell. The libraries or small existing free code can't be sold to anyone but people who don't know how to download binary builds... So my idea is this video editor. There could be the engine (GStreamer) that is completely free (AFAIR it's LGPL) and the GUI to use this engine that would be sold (maybe with different versions, like a very basic one for a few bucks or even free and a huge one allowing all kinds of stuff like DVD authoring, burning CD/DVD, etc). IMO that could be business model that works (if only GStreamer is LGPL or anything but GPL). And that would also put more emphasis on the GUI which is IMO as important as the engine. I'm not sure if the free/cheap version should be open source or not (could be). IMO it should offer the same things VDM can do with AVI and MKV support, not more. If it's open source, anyone could use it to make an alternative version to the big one. But in the other hand that require the same big amount of time we would spend on it. So it's very unlikely to happen... Also if we put the sources of the whole project in CVS I'm not sure you can only allow certain parts to be hidden to anonymous users. Anyone knows ? Can Subversion do that too ? Or that would mean to have a part in a public CVS and another in a private CVS (no anonymous access). From moritz at bunkus.org Sun May 23 11:12:56 2004 From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus) Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 11:12:56 +0200 Subject: [Matroska-general] Doing business In-Reply-To: <40B05A4D.70303@free.fr> References: <40B05A4D.70303@free.fr> Message-ID: <20040523091256.GH31538@bunkus.org> Hi, (sorry, only an answer to a technical issue atm, I'm still at my parent's) > Also if we put the sources of the whole project in > CVS I'm not sure you can only allow certain parts to be hidden to > anonymous users. Anyone knows ? Can Subversion do that too ? Or that > would mean to have a part in a public CVS and another in a private CVS > (no anonymous access). CVS is 'all or nothing', both for read-only (aka anonymous) and write access. In Subversion you can implement permissions on a per-file basis, so it's much, MUCH better suited for this task. I'd even go so far as to say that I won't take part in such a big project if it is hosted on CVS. Mosu -- If Darl McBride was in charge, he'd probably make marriage unconstitutional too, since clearly it de-emphasizes the commercial nature of normal human interaction, and probably is a major impediment to the commercial growth of prostitution. - Linus Torvalds From steve.lhomme at free.fr Sun May 23 20:42:21 2004 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 20:42:21 +0200 Subject: [Matroska-general] CoreCodec.org Down... Hardware Donations Needed In-Reply-To: <5tmua0hcempfn4fgr4maa91j8ddag4fppc@4ax.com> References: <5tmua0hcempfn4fgr4maa91j8ddag4fppc@4ax.com> Message-ID: <40B0F08D.9040901@free.fr> BetaBoy a ?crit : > So we are looking to the CoreCodec Community to help with hardware > donations to get a new 'BEEFY' server to replace it. Here is what we > need: > > - Motherboard (matching) > - CPU (matching) > - RAM (matching) > - Hardrives (IDE, SCSI USB, Min. 40GB) > - 1U, 2U, 4U Mountable Rack Case > - Internal Tape Drive (Min 40GB) > - SCSI/RAID Controllers > > Or maybe you have a complete server? Our ISP prefers 1U to 4U rack > mount... but we can give them a standard box. Could you first estimate the price of this ? As I was discussing about that with Cytoplas last week, it may be cheaper to rent a dedicated server. As I said you can have one for about 100USD a month with unlimited fast bandwidth in France. The only pb in this case is the hardware upgrade. But if you want to move in 1 year, you can go anywhere and have better hardware for the same price. I think it's much cheaper and flexible this way than geting your own hardware for which you have to buy plane tickets ;) From steve.lhomme at free.fr Sun May 23 20:51:58 2004 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 20:51:58 +0200 Subject: [Matroska-general] Doing business In-Reply-To: <40B061F8.4050700@mitose.net> References: <40B05A4D.70303@free.fr> <40B061F8.4050700@mitose.net> Message-ID: <40B0F2CE.207@free.fr> Ploum a ?crit : > Steve Lhomme a ?crit : > >> So my idea is this video editor. There could be the engine (GStreamer) >> that is completely free (AFAIR it's LGPL) and the GUI to use this >> engine that would be sold (maybe with different versions, like a very >> basic one for a few bucks or even free and a huge one allowing all >> kinds of stuff like DVD authoring, burning CD/DVD, etc). IMO that >> could be business model that works (if only GStreamer is LGPL or >> anything but GPL). And that would also put more emphasis on the GUI >> which is IMO as important as the engine. >> >> I'm not sure if the free/cheap version should be open source or not >> (could be). IMO it should offer the same things VDM can do with AVI >> and MKV support, not more. If it's open source, anyone could use it to >> make an alternative version to the big one. But in the other hand that >> require the same big amount of time we would spend on it. So it's very >> unlikely to happen... Also if we put the sources of the whole project >> in CVS I'm not sure you can only allow certain parts to be hidden to >> anonymous users. Anyone knows ? Can Subversion do that too ? Or that >> would mean to have a part in a public CVS and another in a private CVS >> (no anonymous access). > > > You can sell a packaged GPL software ! And that's a very good idea... > All is buisness. Simply make a flashy web page with "Order now" and > people will buy your software. > > But please, make it opensource and free... > > If you really want to make a proprietary software, well, I feel that > I've nothing to do on this mailing list ... I know it sounds strange, even from me. But read the article. IMO it explains clearly why open source (and most specifically GPL) is good in some cases and not in others. Right now the problem is that we don't have enough time to progress the way we want. And time is money... If you find a 1 million dollar donation, you will have all the free code you want :) And still, I want to make the basic software (VMD equivalent) open source. From ploum at mitose.net Sun May 23 21:32:20 2004 From: ploum at mitose.net (Ploum) Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 21:32:20 +0200 Subject: [Matroska-general] CoreCodec.org Down... Hardware Donations Needed In-Reply-To: <40B0F08D.9040901@free.fr> References: <5tmua0hcempfn4fgr4maa91j8ddag4fppc@4ax.com> <40B0F08D.9040901@free.fr> Message-ID: <40B0FC44.4000609@mitose.net> > > Could you first estimate the price of this ? > > As I was discussing about that with Cytoplas last week, it may be > cheaper to rent a dedicated server. As I said you can have one for about > 100USD a month with unlimited fast bandwidth in France. The only pb in > this case is the hardware upgrade. But if you want to move in 1 year, > you can go anywhere and have better hardware for the same price. I rent a dedicated server on ovh.net for 70? a month. I've installed Debian instead of RedHat on the server and I have total control on it. This offer seems very good also : http://www.oxyd.fr/packlinux.php Have also a look at : http://www.ikoula.com/ikexpress/ I know that it's in french, but I can help to explain it. Anyway, if you need a temporary solution, I can host the website on my personnal server. What are the needs ? The server is agora.eu.org, a Celeron 2GHz with 256Mo Ram, 5Mo BW under Debian Woody. I run : Apache, Postfix, Cyrus, Mailman, Php, MySQL. I can also install CVS is someone is ready to give me a hand (I don't know how to do that nor if it is easy). Since I begin exams next week, I can only help early this week. This can be a temporary solution, let me know if it's intersting. I think that website on this server will not be used a lot during July/Augustus. If needed, contact me on my new email ploum on frimouvy.org From steve.lhomme at free.fr Tue May 25 09:55:58 2004 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 09:55:58 +0200 Subject: [Matroska-general] One size fits all Message-ID: <40B2FC0E.10808@free.fr> http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3358061 Another real life case where the GPL is not that good for the open source world. From moritz at bunkus.org Tue May 25 10:06:43 2004 From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 10:06:43 +0200 Subject: [Matroska-general] One size fits all In-Reply-To: <40B2FC0E.10808@free.fr> References: <40B2FC0E.10808@free.fr> Message-ID: <20040525080642.GM31538@bunkus.org> Hi, > Another real life case where the GPL is not that good for the open > source world. But the LGPL is: They've changed the license on some of their _libraries_ from LGPL to GPL. How stupid can they be!? The LGPL is exactly what a library should be licensed under, NOT the GPL... Dumb-ass decision. Mosu -- If Darl McBride was in charge, he'd probably make marriage unconstitutional too, since clearly it de-emphasizes the commercial nature of normal human interaction, and probably is a major impediment to the commercial growth of prostitution. - Linus Torvalds From steve.lhomme at free.fr Tue May 25 10:11:36 2004 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 10:11:36 +0200 Subject: [Matroska-general] One size fits all In-Reply-To: <20040525080642.GM31538@bunkus.org> References: <40B2FC0E.10808@free.fr> <20040525080642.GM31538@bunkus.org> Message-ID: <40B2FFB8.3040000@free.fr> Moritz Bunkus a ?crit : > Hi, > > >>Another real life case where the GPL is not that good for the open >>source world. > > > But the LGPL is: > > They've changed the license on some of their _libraries_ from LGPL to > GPL. How stupid can they be!? The LGPL is exactly what a library should > be licensed under, NOT the GPL... > > Dumb-ass decision. Yes, the intension was to keep commercial products away from the open-source version of MySQL. But now it keeps away other projects like PHP ! Even though they added a special clause for open-source projects... Maybe the FSF will tell you that all these problematic projects should go GPL and it will be fine ;) From paul at msn.com Tue May 25 17:24:30 2004 From: paul at msn.com (Paul Bryson) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 10:24:30 -0500 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: One size fits all References: <40B2FC0E.10808@free.fr> Message-ID: "Steve Lhomme" wrote... > http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3358061 > > Another real life case where the GPL is not that good for the open > source world. Could have sworn this was going to be a spam email.... Pamel From chris at matroska.org Wed May 26 01:38:57 2004 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 01:38:57 +0200 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: New Meeting In-Reply-To: <40A496DD.3070509@po.cs.msu.su> References: <40A366A9.5000909@free.fr> <20040513122519.GE22839@bunkus.org><40A36C20.5090408@free.fr> <20040513132537.GF22839@bunkus.org> <40A3AC2E.5060209@free.fr> <40A47A7A.8000801@free.fr> <40A496DD.3070509@po.cs.msu.su> Message-ID: <40B3D911.5000005@matroska.org> Mike Matsnev wrote: > Steve Lhomme wrote: > >> OK, after discussing with the CoreCodec people (Cytoplas and Betaboy) >> it seems that they can't really provide the bandwidth for us and they >> don't want to move their servers to another place. Also the bigger >> issue in the Intellectual Property and patent covered binaries. As CC >> is hosted in the USA they are much more subject to Cease and Disist >> letters and maybe harder actions. So it's just not possible to host >> certain binaries there, nor anywhere else in the USA (otherwise that >> would just be the same). > > I think I can provide the space and bandwidth on one of my machines. > /Mike Did somebody make contact with Mike about this offer already ? Christian matroska project admin From spyder at matroska.org Wed May 26 07:06:49 2004 From: spyder at matroska.org (John Cannon) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 00:06:49 -0500 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: CoreCodec.org Down... Hardware Donations Needed In-Reply-To: References: <5tmua0hcempfn4fgr4maa91j8ddag4fppc@4ax.com> <40B0F08D.9040901@free.fr> <40B0FC44.4000609@mitose.net> Message-ID: <40B425E9.9070608@matroska.org> BetaBoy wrote: >I gotta tell ya.... it's a little discouraging that other then Ploum's >offer nobody at all has stepped up to help us at all. I mean I have >posted it in the ML, CC.com .org and posted about this on message >boards and after all that and 5 days I have only gotten 1 email to >offer a $10 scsi controller.... > >:( > >_______________________________________________ >Matroska-general mailing list >Matroska-general at lists.matroska.org >http://lists.matroska.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/matroska-general > > > I have a motherboard but I really really don't think it's server material ;) it's a Gigabyte board with via kt266 iirc. The sound onboard is fried somehow... I know a server doesn't need sound but it could mean the rest of the board is risky. I have a 200MHz pentium also ;) Other than that all my hardware is in use. John From moritz at bunkus.org Wed May 26 09:27:44 2004 From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 09:27:44 +0200 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: CoreCodec.org Down... Hardware Donations Needed In-Reply-To: References: <5tmua0hcempfn4fgr4maa91j8ddag4fppc@4ax.com> <40B0F08D.9040901@free.fr> <40B0FC44.4000609@mitose.net> Message-ID: <20040526072744.GR31538@bunkus.org> Hi, I do have some hardware, but none if it is something I'd want to put into a server, and second the shipping costs from Germany to you would be way more than it is worth. I'm willing to donate 30eur, but nothing more (still being a student doesn't leave much money for anything...). Do you have a paypal account? Mosu -- If Darl McBride was in charge, he'd probably make marriage unconstitutional too, since clearly it de-emphasizes the commercial nature of normal human interaction, and probably is a major impediment to the commercial growth of prostitution. - Linus Torvalds From steve.lhomme at free.fr Wed May 26 09:38:25 2004 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 09:38:25 +0200 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: CoreCodec.org Down... Hardware Donations Needed In-Reply-To: References: <5tmua0hcempfn4fgr4maa91j8ddag4fppc@4ax.com> <40B0F08D.9040901@free.fr> <40B0FC44.4000609@mitose.net> Message-ID: <40B44971.1000401@free.fr> BetaBoy a ?crit : > I gotta tell ya.... it's a little discouraging that other then Ploum's > offer nobody at all has stepped up to help us at all. I mean I have > posted it in the ML, CC.com .org and posted about this on message > boards and after all that and 5 days I have only gotten 1 email to > offer a $10 scsi controller.... Dan, You know I already gave money for CC and still willing to do so. But I wanted to go where we go first. If you check the logs of #corecodec from yesterday evening you'll see what I mean (you'll also find reasons why people IMHO are not so bound to give money)... It seems that Carlos has decided to put his own hardware at custom.net until CC has enough money to buy a proper server that would be hosted there. IMO that's a good move and I would be OK to pay for the bandwidth until the money comes in. From steve.lhomme at free.fr Sun May 30 11:22:43 2004 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 11:22:43 +0200 Subject: [Matroska-general] Matroska v1 Message-ID: <40B9A7E3.6080701@free.fr> Hi, The fix release of Matroska have been pending for a while but is not achieved yet. IMO, before we move on to bigger things and other things we should get Matroska 1 done. Here is a list of what I can see before we go v1, correct me if something is wrong or missing : - finish resolving issues that may exist on some tags - native MPEG4 support (with or without Block 2, it can be discussed), IMO we can't go v1 if we don't have native MPEG4 which is probably 80% of existing Matroska files. - native TTA support (lossless audio codec), they are hosted on CoreCodec and the format is well described (and very efficient) - native WavPack support (lossless audio codec), another CoreCodec hosted project that is also efficient and also have an hybrid mode (lossy and lossless possible), the format may be less well defined but are in contact with the main developper David Bryant The menu system is too complicated and should go for the next release. No need to wait any longer for that. And the other issues might take considerably less time (everything could be done in a few weeks from now). What do you all think about that ? From moritz at bunkus.org Sun May 30 12:15:45 2004 From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 12:15:45 +0200 Subject: [Matroska-general] Matroska v1 In-Reply-To: <40B9A7E3.6080701@free.fr> References: <40B9A7E3.6080701@free.fr> Message-ID: <20040530101544.GM7737@bunkus.org> Hi, > - finish resolving issues that may exist on some tags Pamel should probably comment on that as he has done so much work for it. > - native MPEG4 support (with or without Block 2, it can be discussed), > IMO we can't go v1 if we don't have native MPEG4 which is probably 80% > of existing Matroska files. Yes, but I'm not really any closer to having a working solution than I have been four months ago. I'll see if I can work on it during the next two weeks. About the Block 2: I don't think we should rush this. Leave the current block scheme in place in 1.0 and maybe create a new block for after 1.0. > - native TTA support and > - native WavPack support I don't think that these two are required for 1.0. They're 'would be nice to have' features, but nothing more. We already have support for one lossless codec (FLAC), so these two should not stand in the way of 1.0 being released. > The menu system is too complicated and should go for the next > release. I agree. We won't get that working anytime soon. Mosu -- If Darl McBride was in charge, he'd probably make marriage unconstitutional too, since clearly it de-emphasizes the commercial nature of normal human interaction, and probably is a major impediment to the commercial growth of prostitution. - Linus Torvalds From steve.lhomme at free.fr Sun May 30 12:28:38 2004 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 12:28:38 +0200 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: Matroska v1 In-Reply-To: <20040530101544.GM7737@bunkus.org> References: <40B9A7E3.6080701@free.fr> <20040530101544.GM7737@bunkus.org> Message-ID: <40B9B756.3090501@free.fr> Moritz Bunkus a ?crit : >>- native MPEG4 support (with or without Block 2, it can be discussed), >>IMO we can't go v1 if we don't have native MPEG4 which is probably 80% >>of existing Matroska files. > > > Yes, but I'm not really any closer to having a working solution than I > have been four months ago. I'll see if I can work on it during the next > two weeks. > > About the Block 2: I don't think we should rush this. Leave the current > block scheme in place in 1.0 and maybe create a new block for after 1.0. Good ;) I'm not against Block2, but for v1 we probably want something stable. And the rest of the format hasn't changed for a while. But native references are not well used currently in any tool, AFAIK. So I doubt if we go with the current system, it will work... >>- native TTA support >>- native WavPack support > > > I don't think that these two are required for 1.0. They're 'would be > nice to have' features, but nothing more. We already have support for > one lossless codec (FLAC), so these two should not stand in the way of > 1.0 being released. Yes, but the v1 freezing is not about the code, but the specs. We just need to define what we put in CodecPrivate and what goes in the frames, nothing more. I'll investigate that, and from that point implementation will be easy for everyone. IMO the time vs benefit ratio is good :) And I really want to support both codec in the future. They are good, open source and most of all, better than FLAC in many areas. From chris at matroska.org Sun May 30 13:07:45 2004 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 13:07:45 +0200 Subject: [Matroska-devel] Re: [Matroska-general] Matroska v1 In-Reply-To: <20040530101544.GM7737@bunkus.org> References: <40B9A7E3.6080701@free.fr> <20040530101544.GM7737@bunkus.org> Message-ID: <40B9C081.6020807@matroska.org> Moritz Bunkus wrote: > Hi, >>- finish resolving issues that may exist on some tags > Pamel should probably comment on that as he has done so much work for > it. Yes, where is Paul :) ? >>- native MPEG4 support (with or without Block 2, it can be discussed), >>IMO we can't go v1 if we don't have native MPEG4 which is probably 80% >>of existing Matroska files > > Yes, but I'm not really any closer to having a working solution than I > have been four months ago. I'll see if I can work on it during the next > two weeks. Sidenote : a working native MPEG4 implementation would be a very good thing from a marketing aspect ! > About the Block 2: I don't think we should rush this. Leave the current > block scheme in place in 1.0 and maybe create a new block for after 1.0. I fully agree. Overhead should be better compared to most AVIs ( all DivX5 AVIs, most XviD AVIs ) even with block 1, and a new block type before we go matroska 1.0 is no good thing from a psychological point of view IMO. >>- native TTA support > > and > >>- native WavPack support > > I don't think that these two are required for 1.0. They're 'would be > nice to have' features, but nothing more. We already have support for > one lossless codec (FLAC), so these two should not stand in the way of > 1.0 being released The number of supported formats has nothing to do with going 1.0 IMO. Making matroska 1.0 is a matter of the specs, but not necessarily of the codec ID page. We can add support for any of those whenever we like to, again IMO. Besides, any new format we add gives us publicity and we could well use some of that right now i guess .... >>The menu system is too complicated and should go for the next >>release. > > I agree. We won't get that working anytime soon. > Mosu I had loved to get menues working in 1.0, but it seems we have to live with a compromise here, as we currently dont get the support we need from the outside world. Only Mosu and robux4 coding, and me doing some minor admin help ( with plenty of RL obstacles ) .... we should push matroska 1.0 as is now, maybe only adding native MPEG4 . Christian From steve.lhomme at free.fr Sun May 30 13:36:28 2004 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 13:36:28 +0200 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: Matroska v1 In-Reply-To: <40B9C081.6020807@matroska.org> References: <40B9A7E3.6080701@free.fr> <20040530101544.GM7737@bunkus.org> <40B9C081.6020807@matroska.org> Message-ID: <40B9C73C.5090002@free.fr> Christian HJ Wiesner a ?crit : > > > Moritz Bunkus wrote: > >> Hi, >> >>> - finish resolving issues that may exist on some tags >> >> Pamel should probably comment on that as he has done so much work for >> it. > > > Yes, where is Paul :) ? Maybe the timing is bad. He said yesterday on IRC that he won't have internet for 2 weeks :( Seems we are out of luck these days... >>> - native MPEG4 support (with or without Block 2, it can be >>> discussed), IMO we can't go v1 if we don't have native MPEG4 which is >>> probably 80% of existing Matroska files >> >> >> Yes, but I'm not really any closer to having a working solution than I >> have been four months ago. I'll see if I can work on it during the next >> two weeks. > > > Sidenote : a working native MPEG4 implementation would be a very good > thing from a marketing aspect ! As I said to Chris on IRC, I was thinking yesterday of getting rid of all the AVIs I have a convert them to MKV. But most of them are DivX encoded, and that would be silly to do it when native MPEG4 support is pending... So I'll wait for this support to do it... Maybe other people are thinking the same too ! > The number of supported formats has nothing to do with going 1.0 IMO. > Making matroska 1.0 is a matter of the specs, but not necessarily of the > codec ID page. We can add support for any of those whenever we like to, > again IMO. > Besides, any new format we add gives us publicity and we could well use > some of that right now i guess .... So you think we should support these codecs before v1 ? (IMO it will be done faster than doing v1) BTW this is the same issue as native MPEG4. Except that for native MPEG4 we need to test references that were never tested before... From spyder at matroska.org Sun May 30 22:27:30 2004 From: spyder at matroska.org (John Cannon) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 15:27:30 -0500 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: [Matroska-devel] Re: Matroska v1 In-Reply-To: <40B9C73C.5090002@free.fr> References: <40B9A7E3.6080701@free.fr> <20040530101544.GM7737@bunkus.org> <40B9C081.6020807@matroska.org> <40B9C73C.5090002@free.fr> Message-ID: <40BA43B2.8010906@matroska.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, Yes, Paul seems to be away for a while. I think we should try too finish this up as soon as possible but we really need Paul to help finalize the tags. I agree with Mosu about the lossless codecs. I'm not sure if this is necessary for the v1 release. However, I guess we have time to get that figured out while Paul is away... @Chris: Welcome back :) John -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFAukOypVzSUDd/cNwRAuHMAJ9KrlOLxuglVJA+tIYbgZMXJjX1nACgjnFg grvZQ5tEzsvE4KdbsmquTRA= =Tj+e -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From steve.lhomme at free.fr Mon May 31 01:00:04 2004 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 01:00:04 +0200 Subject: [Matroska-general] logos Message-ID: <40BA6774.2080501@free.fr> Hi Dan, I just finished making the clean versions of the official Matroska logo. It had been pending for too long, now it's done. You can find the stuff here : http://mukoli.free.fr/corecodec/ It would be great to have a tee-shirt with the 7inches logo on the back and the 2inches logo on the front (tee-shirt mono or bi colour), or the CoreCodec logo instead. Or maybe just the 2inches version on the front (golf shirt). There are also icons of different sizes for Windows, Linux and Mac application. It doesn't look too good IMO compared to all the tray icons I see on my computer. So any idea would be appreciated. From steve.lhomme at free.fr Mon May 31 12:36:24 2004 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 12:36:24 +0200 Subject: [Matroska-general] CoreLib Message-ID: <40BB0AA8.4090804@free.fr> I wanted to make a webpage about CoreSync and CoreLib (until I can create the webpages on CoreCodec) but it seems that some people already got almost the same idea as CoreLib, so I added my wishlist there : http://209.152.181.168/~hydrogen/index.php?showtopic=18569&st=75& If nothing happens I will start CoreLib and CoreSync (actually CoreSync will be way better/easier to do if it can use CoreLib) soon. There could be a CoreLib client that could become the central point of the OS for reencoding/remuxing files... Maybe it could use GStreamer for that ! From steve.lhomme at free.fr Mon May 31 17:01:04 2004 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 17:01:04 +0200 Subject: [Matroska-general] CoreLib In-Reply-To: <40BB0AA8.4090804@free.fr> References: <40BB0AA8.4090804@free.fr> Message-ID: <40BB48B0.5030808@free.fr> Steve Lhomme a ?crit : > I wanted to make a webpage about CoreSync and CoreLib (until I can > create the webpages on CoreCodec) but it seems that some people already > got almost the same idea as CoreLib, so I added my wishlist there : > > http://209.152.181.168/~hydrogen/index.php?showtopic=18569&st=75& > > If nothing happens I will start CoreLib and CoreSync (actually CoreSync > will be way better/easier to do if it can use CoreLib) soon. > > There could be a CoreLib client that could become the central point of > the OS for reencoding/remuxing files... Maybe it could use GStreamer for > that ! More on this : http://mukoli.free.fr/corelib/