From chris at matroska.org Mon Mar 1 11:31:56 2004 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 11:31:56 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] Movement with avs2avi ... a new chance for avs2matroska, using jcsston's MKV output plugin ? Message-ID: <4043111C.4040302@matroska.org> Hi guys, please read here : http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=452012#post452012 @jcsston : Is there any chance to make use of DaveEL's code for a MKV encoding tool which will output native MPEG4 MKV files ? avs2matroska had XviD statically linked in the code, so i guess this will be the biggest obstacle, as this way we cant distribute binaries safely, and this is a no-go right now, given the publicity the matroska project has already. We needed to find a way to use xvid-core.dll dynamically from this tool, and thats maybe making most of DaveEL's existing code unsuable, and its better to start all over ? In the first alpha versions of avs2matroska i had to load the XviD VCM codec from Virtualdub to make the settings, and so i could make only one pass after the other. But for some hard core matroska users this is certainly acceptable, if they get the long awaited native files that way. @spyder : Is MILK usable for this already ? Thanks for caring guys. With Mosu being busy currently, so he cant work on the native transmuxer in mkvmerge, i guess it could be well worth it to have a look in this. Furthermore, we will release the first alpha of DVDto MKV this week, and this program could 100% replace VirtualdubMod in it, and even create native files !! Regards Christian From chris at matroska.org Mon Mar 1 11:36:52 2004 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 11:36:52 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] Alpha release of DVDtoMKV Message-ID: <40431244.7010100@matroska.org> Hi, just wanted to tell you that the first stable and working alpha version of DVDtoMKV is on my HDD now, and i am planning on making an alpha release this week. As the two installers are 11 and 8 MB ( thanks to Mosu's 4 MB libs for mkvmerge ), i need some time to prepare proper hosting for it, using several mirrors. My old T-Online webspaces come in handy, i have 3 x 10 MB there, so this is nice for the lite installer ( 8 MB, without the matroska playback pack ), but still i need some strong mirrors for the full installer. Project is on http://corecodec.org/projects/dvdtomkv , including sourcecode. Comments welcome .... Christian From moritz at bunkus.org Mon Mar 1 11:43:06 2004 From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:43:06 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] Alpha release of DVDtoMKV In-Reply-To: <40431244.7010100@matroska.org> References: <40431244.7010100@matroska.org> Message-ID: <20040301104305.GI6917@bunkus.org> Heya, > As the two installers are 11 and 8 MB ( thanks to > Mosu's 4 MB libs for mkvmerge ), ;) > i need some time to prepare proper > hosting for it, using several mirrors. My old T-Online webspaces come in > handy, i have 3 x 10 MB there, so this is nice for the lite installer ( > 8 MB, without the matroska playback pack ), but still i need some strong > mirrors for the full installer. Project is on > http://corecodec.org/projects/dvdtomkv , including sourcecode. I can host them. Either just the binaries, or some website as well. I can also set up a FTP account for you or DVD to upload. Don't worry about the traffic, if it becomes too much we'll look for alternatives. Mosu -- If Darl McBride was in charge, he'd probably make marriage unconstitutional too, since clearly it de-emphasizes the commercial nature of normal human interaction, and probably is a major impediment to the commercial growth of prostitution. - Linus Torvalds From chris at matroska.org Mon Mar 1 11:59:19 2004 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 11:59:19 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] Alpha release of DVDtoMKV In-Reply-To: <20040301104305.GI6917@bunkus.org> References: <40431244.7010100@matroska.org> <20040301104305.GI6917@bunkus.org> Message-ID: <40431787.8020201@matroska.org> Moritz Bunkus wrote: >>i need some time to prepare proper >>hosting for it, using several mirrors. My old T-Online webspaces come in >>handy, i have 3 x 10 MB there, so this is nice for the lite installer ( >>8 MB, without the matroska playback pack ), but still i need some strong >>mirrors for the full installer. Project is on >>http://corecodec.org/projects/dvdtomkv , including sourcecode. >> >> >I can host them. Either just the binaries, or some website as well. I >can also set up a FTP account for you or DVD to upload. Don't worry >about the traffic, if it becomes too much we'll look for alternatives. >Mosu > > I am just summarizing what we just discussed on IRC : We will rename the 'lite' installer to simply 'DVDtoMKV' , and the 'full' installer to 'DVDtoMKV + MKV playback pack', hoping that most people have the playback pack already, and will go for the first one. After all, there is maybe not a very big sense to include the playback at all, maybe a hint to the link for the packs in the DVDtoMKV docs is a better solution ? I will discuss this with DVD, the author, and come back to you about this. maybe we can realize this for a future version of the encoding tool. Christian From steve.lhomme at free.fr Mon Mar 1 13:46:11 2004 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 13:46:11 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] A bit of optimism ? Message-ID: <40433093.3070909@free.fr> http://www.techuser.net/index.php?id=42 On the time it takes for ideas to be successful. From renekoch at e-divx.at Mon Mar 1 15:01:23 2004 From: renekoch at e-divx.at (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9_Koch?=) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 15:01:23 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] Alpha release of DVDtoMKV References: <40431244.7010100@matroska.org> Message-ID: <003d01c3ff95$af35bb50$5ef698d4@scratpc> hey! > > just wanted to tell you that the first stable and working alpha version > of DVDtoMKV is on my HDD now, and i am planning on making an alpha > release this week. As the two installers are 11 and 8 MB ( thanks to > Mosu's 4 MB libs for mkvmerge ), i need some time to prepare proper > hosting for it, using several mirrors. My old T-Online webspaces come in > handy, i have 3 x 10 MB there, so this is nice for the lite installer ( > 8 MB, without the matroska playback pack ), but still i need some strong > mirrors for the full installer. Project is on > http://corecodec.org/projects/dvdtomkv , including sourcecode. > You can use my webspace as a mirror for the full installer if in the full pack the DVDDecrypter is NOT included, because as you know this tool is in the EU forbidden and so I won't get any problems with the law... If it isn't included, a mirror on my webspace is absolutly no problem and traffic is also no problem because my webspace has unlimited traffic. greeetings, scrat From chris at matroska.org Mon Mar 1 15:09:23 2004 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 15:09:23 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] Alpha release of DVDtoMKV In-Reply-To: <003d01c3ff95$af35bb50$5ef698d4@scratpc> References: <40431244.7010100@matroska.org> <003d01c3ff95$af35bb50$5ef698d4@scratpc> Message-ID: <40434413.8060908@matroska.org> Ren? Koch wrote: >You can use my webspace as a mirror for the full installer if in the full >pack the DVDDecrypter is NOT included, because as you know this tool is in >the EU forbidden and so I won't get any problems with the law... >If it isn't included, a mirror on my webspace is absolutly no problem and >traffic is also no problem because my webspace has unlimited traffic. >greeetings, scrat > Dont worry, there is no DVD ripper in the pack AFAIK, the program even needs a working .d2v file to be able to start encoding. With all the nice mirror possibilitites we have no, is anybody fit enough for a PHP code choosing them automatically ? Christian From chris at matroska.org Tue Mar 2 10:07:09 2004 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 10:07:09 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] I made BS again Message-ID: <40444EBD.2010604@matroska.org> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.multimedia.ogg.advocacy/177 Hi all, and my apologies to the team about what i have done at the same time. I really dont know why i am actually posting to the Xiph lists at all, they have proven many times that they dont listen to considerations from the outside, and if they reply they always mark us as the bad enemy who are trying to steal and discriminate their hard work. Here is the reply from Arc Riley on my post, who is a core member of Xiph : http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.multimedia.ogg.advocacy/178 , and my reply back http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.multimedia.ogg.advocacy/179 . I try to hold it better in future, i promise. Feel free to bash me if you feel like it ..... Christian From moritz at bunkus.org Tue Mar 2 10:18:52 2004 From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:18:52 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] I made BS again In-Reply-To: <40444EBD.2010604@matroska.org> References: <40444EBD.2010604@matroska.org> Message-ID: <20040302091852.GV6917@bunkus.org> Heya, > http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.multimedia.ogg.advocacy/177 Hmm... Yes, you shouldn't post on Xiph lists ;) It could have been worse, but I think that no comments from our side whatsoever about any of Xiph's technologies/decisions might be better than honest advice with good intentions, even if it doesn't mention Matroska - because there's just too much 'politics' involved. Mosu -- If Darl McBride was in charge, he'd probably make marriage unconstitutional too, since clearly it de-emphasizes the commercial nature of normal human interaction, and probably is a major impediment to the commercial growth of prostitution. - Linus Torvalds From steve.lhomme at free.fr Tue Mar 2 11:17:55 2004 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:17:55 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] I made BS again In-Reply-To: <20040302091852.GV6917@bunkus.org> References: <40444EBD.2010604@matroska.org> <20040302091852.GV6917@bunkus.org> Message-ID: <40445F53.4030209@free.fr> I followed the discussion on the [advocacy] list. And I expected worse than what you did Christian. IMO they are too sensible to have a peaceful discussion. And they keep on living in their bubble. Too bad for them. No reason to waste energy there... Moritz Bunkus wrote: > Heya, > > >>http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.multimedia.ogg.advocacy/177 > > > Hmm... Yes, you shouldn't post on Xiph lists ;) It could have been > worse, but I think that no comments from our side whatsoever about any > of Xiph's technologies/decisions might be better than honest advice > with good intentions, even if it doesn't mention Matroska - because > there's just too much 'politics' involved. > > Mosu > From paul at msn.com Tue Mar 2 17:50:49 2004 From: paul at msn.com (Paul Bryson) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:50:49 -0600 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: I made BS again References: <40444EBD.2010604@matroska.org> <20040302091852.GV6917@bunkus.org> <40445F53.4030209@free.fr> Message-ID: "Steve Lhomme" wrote... > IMO they are too sensible to have a peaceful discussion. Somehow that didn't quite make sense. But yes, they are much to bubblicious to really fix things. Pamel From steve.lhomme at free.fr Wed Mar 3 11:12:41 2004 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 11:12:41 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] KDE Quality Teams Message-ID: <4045AF99.9090406@free.fr> http://www.newsforge.com/technology/04/03/01/1511242.shtml Interresting idea to make life easier for developpers. From chris at matroska.org Fri Mar 5 00:03:47 2004 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 00:03:47 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] Releases of DVDtoMKV and matroska splitter with automatic font loading Message-ID: <4047B5D3.4050804@matroska.org> Hi, i released both as beta versions on Doom9 : http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=72090 and http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=72086 Other boards and corecodec.com to follow Christian From steve.lhomme at free.fr Fri Mar 12 10:57:27 2004 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:57:27 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] Linux slowly goes in the multimedia world Message-ID: <40518987.9060706@free.fr> Review of the new Mandrake 10 release : http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=6327 "My biggest welcome surprise was the fact that Mandrake now installs by default a video editor, KDEnLive! At last, a distribution that is sensitive enough to the sign of the times and includes a solution --even if that solution is still very alpha. It shows sensitivity to the multimedia issue and I liked that. There is also the option to install Kino, the gnome video editor." From moritz at bunkus.org Sat Mar 13 13:56:15 2004 From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 13:56:15 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] mkvtoolnix 0.8.6 released Message-ID: <20040313125615.GI6938@bunkus.org> Heya, here's another release. I've implemented a couple of usability enhancements for mmg, but more important, there are a lot of bugs that I've fixed. Please see the ChangeLog for details. The homepage: http://www.bunkus.org/videotools/mkvtoolnix/ The sources: http://www.bunkus.org/videotools/mkvtoolnix/sources/mkvtoolnix-0.8.6.tar.bz2 Windows binaries: http://www.bunkus.org/videotools/mkvtoolnix/win32/mkvtoolnix-0.8.6.rar Here's the ChangeLog since 0.8.5: ------------------------------------------------------ 2004-03-13 Moritz Bunkus * Released v0.8.6. * mkvmerge: bug fix: OGMs created by Cyrius OGMuxer are missing comment packets for some streams which mkvmerge choked on. 2004-03-10 Moritz Bunkus * mkvmerge/mmg: bug fix: The LANGUAGE and TITLE comments from OGM files were not set in the GUI when adding such files. 2004-03-09 Moritz Bunkus * mmg: bug fix: If the FourCC was set for one track it had been used for each track you selected as well. * mkvmerge: new feature: Tags are being kept when reading Matroska files. * mkvmerge: bug fix: Large values for --sync (over 2100) would cause an integer overflow resulting in no sync being done at all. * mkvmerge: bug fix: The VobSub handling was broken if the .idx file contains an entry for a track ("id: en") but no "timestamp:" entries for such a track. * mkvmerge: bug fix: The segment UID was not generated if splitting was off. * mmg: new feature: Automatically set the output file name when the first file is added to the same name but with a '.mkv' extension if it hasn't been set yet. Can be disabled on the 'settings' page. * mkvmerge: bug fix: More of the non-ASCII character fixes (in --tags and --chapters this time). * mkvmerge/mmg: new feature: Made the process priority selectable on the 'settings' page and default to 'normal' again (was 'lower' before). 2004-03-07 Moritz Bunkus * mmg: new feature: mmg will ask for confirmation before overwriting an existing output file. 2004-02-29 Moritz Bunkus * mkvmerge: bug fix: No memory was allocated for the --attachment-description resulting in weird descriptions or mkvmerge aborting with 'invalid UTF-8 characters'. * mkvmerge: bug fix: More of the non-ASCII characters fixes. 2004-02-28 Moritz Bunkus * mkvmerge: bug fix: File names with non-ASCII characters like Umlaute are handled correctly. 2004-02-27 Moritz Bunkus * mkvmerge: bug fix: Some RealMedia files contain several tracks for multirate stuff which are now ignored. Only tracks with known MIME types (audio/x-pn-realaudio and video/x-pn-realvideo) are used. 2004-02-23 Moritz Bunkus * mmg: Added a list of 'popular' languages on top of all language drop down boxes. ------------------------------------------------- Have fun :) Mosu -- If Darl McBride was in charge, he'd probably make marriage unconstitutional too, since clearly it de-emphasizes the commercial nature of normal human interaction, and probably is a major impediment to the commercial growth of prostitution. - Linus Torvalds From gael at merzok.com Sun Mar 14 16:24:19 2004 From: gael at merzok.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ga=EBl?=) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 16:24:19 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] Besoin d'Aide (mac os) Message-ID: Sur le site matroska.org il est dit que l'on peux ouvrir des fichier video mkv avec une '' version sp?cial '' de MPlayer, or il n'y a pas de version sp?cial et les fichier mkv sont impossible ? ?tre ouver avec MPlayer ou VLC Existe t il une solution ? Merci, Ga?l From chris at matroska.org Mon Mar 15 14:20:28 2004 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 14:20:28 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] matroska patch by BBB for FFMPEG accepted and applied !! Message-ID: <4055AD9C.6070402@matroska.org> Hi, i have the great pleasure to announce that Ronald 'BBB' Bultje's matroska patch for FFMPEG was finally accepted and applied by Michael Niedermayer, the head FFMPEG developer. Michael had only a few minor critical points he wanted to have changed, and finally applied BBB's patch after these changes were done. For the non-techies amongst you, FFMPEG is the most complete and probably also the best collection of opensource code for multimedia handling, its including complete MPEG1/2/4 en- and decoders ( both audio and video, organized in libav*codec* ), an AVI/MPEG/MP4/Ogg/RM/MOV/NSV/etc container handler ( demuxer for all, muxer for most, organized in libav*format* ), as well as decoders for many other video and audio formats. Some of you may know that FFMPEG is the basis for Milan Cutka's FFDshow as well as for FFvfw. In principal it is now possible to include a matroska splitter into FFDshow, even if this makes no sense as we have a pretty good splitter filter, just to give you an idea. FFMPEG is used by most opensource players, especially in the Linux world and if they are not DirectShow based, but players like VLC, Xine and mplayer are available for Windows and MacOS also, and all of them use FFMPEG for at least the decoding part of the majority of audio and video content AFAIK. Its a great day for us that matroska has FFMPEG support now, as we can certainly expect wider and better player support now, and its also possible to concentrate matroska playback support for several important players in one single module, instead of having to update all the players independantly. In the name of the matroska team i would like to express my highest appreciation to BBB for his incredible work on his matroska demuxer and muxer library. He made them originally for the Gstreamer multimedia framework and in plain C, and released them under the L-GPL license. Soon the idea was born to make a nice FFMPEG patch from it, and now he finally found the time to do it. *BBB*, you're our hero !!! We cant thank you enough for this great contribution to our project and are happy to call you our friend ! Thanks for reading this short announcement Christian matroska project admin From spyder at matroska.org Fri Mar 19 06:06:31 2004 From: spyder at matroska.org (John Cannon) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 23:06:31 -0600 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: [Matroska-devel] Re: Re: [gst-devel] Gstreamer and matroska -theopensource answer to VideoforWindows/AVI and Quicktime/MOV ? In-Reply-To: References: <40338455.3050905@matroska.org><1079641977.2412.1.camel@shrek.bitfreak.net> <1079647091.2412.28.camel@shrek.bitfreak.net> Message-ID: <405A7FD7.3050000@matroska.org> Paul Bryson wrote: >>Besides, we don't have a Nut muxer. >> >> > >I would like to thank spyder482 for not actually releasing the NUT muxer that he >wrote. ;) > > > You're very very welcome ;) I'm just thinking of the old people ;) John From R.S.Bultje at students.uu.nl Thu Mar 18 21:32:57 2004 From: R.S.Bultje at students.uu.nl (Ronald S. Bultje) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 21:32:57 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: [gst-devel] Gstreamer and matroska - the opensource answer to VideoforWindows/AVI and Quicktime/MOV ? In-Reply-To: <40338455.3050905@matroska.org> References: <40338455.3050905@matroska.org> Message-ID: <1079641977.2412.1.camel@shrek.bitfreak.net> Hi Chris, the long-awaited answer that I promised a while ago. Please note that I speak on personal title only, as a GStreamer developer, but not as a GStreamer representative as such. I'll first answer your brainstorming by explaining what GStreamer's aim is: it is world domination. My personal goals are much simpler. I am interested solely in the Linux platform, for any supported arch out there, and my personal goal is to bring media to the desktop on this wonderful OS. If it runs on any other OS, I'll be happy for the people that care, but I won't care much myself. As a user, I'm specifically attracted to GNOME/GStreamer as a combination. As a developer, I have an interest for KDE/GStreamer, too. Quicktime/Directshow are nothing more than vague alternatives for me on other OSes. I don't know them, nor do I want to. GStreamer is not bound to a single container, nor does it need a preferred one. Users use individually preferred containers. If we would ever want to set automated preferences (planned for 0.9.x by me), I'd give any open format a higher preference than a closed one. Obviously, (example) Matroska would be preferred over (example) ASF. However, Ogg and Matroska would be evenly preferred. I don't want to bind to a single container because I don't see that as an obvious task for a media framework. On Wed, 2004-02-18 at 16:27, Christian HJ Wiesner wrote: [..] > I am well aware gstreamer doesnt need matroska at all. Your way is > clear, becoming the best media framework for the Linux world, and you > guys wont mind if your project is ported to other OSes also, as this can > only help you to achieve your goals, for sure. You could also settle for > MOV as standard container, as there are currently no features realized > in matroska that MOV cant do also, or have no standard container at all. > On the other hand, you could win a couple of contributors and fans with > such an 'alliance', if you allow me to name it like that. Opinions > please, and use the 'reply all' button if i may ask for that, to copy > both lists. Stupid idea ? Useless ? Possible ? Tell me what you think .... Nice marketing try ( ;) ), but it's not what I'd want. Ronald From R.S.Bultje at students.uu.nl Thu Mar 18 22:58:11 2004 From: R.S.Bultje at students.uu.nl (Ronald S. Bultje) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:58:11 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: [Matroska-devel] Re: [gst-devel] Gstreamer and matroska - theopensource answer to VideoforWindows/AVI and Quicktime/MOV ? In-Reply-To: References: <40338455.3050905@matroska.org> <1079641977.2412.1.camel@shrek.bitfreak.net> Message-ID: <1079647091.2412.28.camel@shrek.bitfreak.net> On Fri, 2004-03-19 at 04:28, Paul Bryson wrote: > I would prefer most things over Ogg because at this point it only stores Vorbis, > and soon officially Theora. Perhaps Matroska and NUT would be evenly preferred? > Although, I imagine that (like every other program) GStreamer would only allow > selecting a single initial default. But what would you pick? If you would > indeed prefer an open format, then Matroska seems the obvious choice here. It > will store anything, and is already in 'wide spread' use. We don't. We let the app decide, we let randomness decide, we let the alphabet decide, I don't know. We won't have any official "GStreamer file format" like Quicktime of VfW which is widely advertised on our website, in each of our apps, etc. If we ever set "ranking icons" for favoured or unfavoured formats, Matroska will get the same icon as other container formats that meet our requirements similarly well. Etc. Ogg is evenly preferred because it allows for storage of video and audio using open container, video and audio codec. That's good enough. Note that we don't have an Ogg muxer yet, though we're eagerly awaiting one. Nut is currently vapourware (or under development; whichever you prefer), see Michael's comments several months ago on ffmpeg-devel at . Besides, we don't have a Nut muxer. Ronald From chris at matroska.org Fri Mar 19 10:57:07 2004 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:57:07 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] IRC Meeting - Strategical Questions Message-ID: <405AC3F3.9010006@matroska.org> Hi, i'd like to invite you all to a strategical meeting about the future of matroska, especially with respect to Gstreamer/matroska and TCME, the planned video editor. Meeting place is irc.corecodec.com , #matroska , time for the meeting is Friday, 19th March ( today ;-) ) , 22.00 h CET ( 21.00 h CMT ). We are looking forward to your input and will welcome you on our channel. Regards Christian From moritz at bunkus.org Fri Mar 19 11:03:44 2004 From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:03:44 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] IRC Meeting - Strategical Questions In-Reply-To: <405AC3F3.9010006@matroska.org> References: <405AC3F3.9010006@matroska.org> Message-ID: <20040319100344.GY1140@bunkus.org> > i'd like to invite you all to a strategical meeting about the future of > matroska, especially with respect to Gstreamer/matroska and TCME, the > planned video editor. Yay ;) I'll be there, of course. Mosu -- If Darl McBride was in charge, he'd probably make marriage unconstitutional too, since clearly it de-emphasizes the commercial nature of normal human interaction, and probably is a major impediment to the commercial growth of prostitution. - Linus Torvalds From rbultje at ronald.bitfreak.net Fri Mar 19 17:38:30 2004 From: rbultje at ronald.bitfreak.net (Ronald Bultje) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:38:30 +0100 (CET) Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: [Matroska-devel] Re: Re: [gst-devel] Gstreamer and matroska -theopensource answer to VideoforWindows/AVI and Quicktime/MOV ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, On Thu, 18 Mar 2004, Paul Bryson wrote: > "Ronald S. Bultje" wrote... > > We don't. We let the app decide, we let randomness decide, > > What a very strange program. "Behaviour differs on each run to keep things > interesting". A little like DirectShow, but apparently intentional. Well, it's up to the app to decide itself or to let randomness decide. Just, *we* do not decide. > > Ogg is evenly preferred because it allows for storage of video and audio > > The only codec that I have ever seen in Ogg is Vorbis, although I understand > that it actually supports a few other Xiph endorsed audio codecs. Where is this > Ogg Video file that you speak of? (remembering of course that Ogg != OGM) Tarkin might be in early alpha, but theora definately works. Try the latest betas. We have decoder plugins in gst-0.8.0. Ronald From christian at matroska.org Fri Mar 19 20:26:54 2004 From: christian at matroska.org (ChristianHJW) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 20:26:54 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: [gst-devel] Gstreamer and matroska - the opensource answer to VideoforWindows/AVI and Quicktime/MOV ? In-Reply-To: <1079641977.2412.1.camel@shrek.bitfreak.net> References: <40338455.3050905@matroska.org> <1079641977.2412.1.camel@shrek.bitfreak.net> Message-ID: <405B497E.6040009@matroska.org> Ronald S. Bultje wrote: > GStreamer is not bound to a single container, nor does it need a > preferred one. Users use individually preferred containers. If we would > ever want to set automated preferences (planned for 0.9.x by me), I'd > give any open format a higher preference than a closed one. Obviously, > (example) Matroska would be preferred over (example) ASF. However, Ogg > and Matroska would be evenly preferred. I don't want to bind to a single > container because I don't see that as an obvious task for a media > framework. Playing devil's advocate : Q : What does differentiate Gstreamer from mplayer or Xine ? A : Gstreamer is a media framework, mplayer and Xine are merely playback apps Q : Whats the advantage of a framework, compared to a playback app ? A : a. Its easier to develop video and audio apps based on the framework, existing work can be reused, apps based on the framework can support any format where a plugin exists. b. People can start making their own plugins, and have their own video/audio compression solutions based on the framework, and simply by plugin distribution everybody can use their stuff While a. is a quite obvious advantage for the programmers, it doesnt really give the users an advantage performance wise. If you ask most desktop users if they know the difference between a player based on a framework like Quicktime, DirectShow or Gstreamer, and 'self-contained' players like VLC, Xine or mplayer, i bet less than 10% do know. The most important thing for them is that they get their stuff to play, thats it. Speaking about b. , Quicktime, Video for Windows, DirectShow, Helix, all of them could be used by codec developers to release a codec for various platforms, and to make sure the files created can be played on a big number of PCs. 3ivX ( http://www.3ivx.com ) are a good example for that, they made a nice MPEG4 codec and are releasing it in 3 different versions, for 3 different frameworks : - VfW / VCM - Quicktime - DirectShow ( only decoder AFAIK ) Ask them if they would be happy if they could standardize on a single framework, which would cover all major platforms. I am well aware you guys dont get requests like that yet, but rest assured that the matroska team has at least one serious request per month from codec devlopers investigating if our container could be a proper way to base their codec on, and to ensure playback and creation on at least the 2 major platforms, Windows and Linux. Gstreamer, but only after a win32 ( and later MacOSX ) port, could be an answer here, while right now we have to make clear to them that we could modify mkvmerge to mux their stuff into matroska, and its compiled for Linux, Windows and MacOSX, but the only matroska video editor we have is for Windows, and will handle only ( mostly ) tracks with VCM or ACM compatibility mode, similar to AVI, and thats it. For playback, mplayer and VLC would be the only viable x-platform options, means the guys have to release special builds of those players, for each platform and with their decoder included. For the time being it seems that only Helix is a true x-platform multimedia framework, with a basic video editor and playback support on all platforms. Their stuff compiles on Windows, Linux, MacOSX and Solaris IIRC. But dont ask me if a codec developer would truely consider to convince their users to use Realplayer to play their stuff ;) .... Christian From steve.lhomme at free.fr Sat Mar 20 12:12:17 2004 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 12:12:17 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: [gst-devel] Gstreamer and matroska - the opensource answer to VideoforWindows/AVI and Quicktime/MOV ? In-Reply-To: <405B497E.6040009@matroska.org> References: <40338455.3050905@matroska.org> <1079641977.2412.1.camel@shrek.bitfreak.net> <405B497E.6040009@matroska.org> Message-ID: <405C2711.8070502@free.fr> ChristianHJW wrote: > Q : Whats the advantage of a framework, compared to a playback app ? > > A : a. Its easier to develop video and audio apps based on the > framework, existing work can be reused, apps based on the framework can > support any format where a plugin exists. > b. People can start making their own plugins, and have their own > video/audio compression solutions based on the framework, and simply by > plugin distribution everybody can use their stuff > > While a. is a quite obvious advantage for the programmers, it doesnt > really give the users an advantage performance wise. If you ask most > desktop users if they know the difference between a player based on a > framework like Quicktime, DirectShow or Gstreamer, and 'self-contained' > players like VLC, Xine or mplayer, i bet less than 10% do know. The most > important thing for them is that they get their stuff to play, thats it. This assumption depends on the "targeted audience". While it's very true among Windows users and probably Mac, it is less the case in the Unix world (things that just work are less common in the AV world ;). So it all depends on the audience. And GStreamer is clearly targeted at the Unix users. > Gstreamer, but only after a win32 ( and later MacOSX ) port, could be an > answer here, while right now we have to make clear to them that we could > modify mkvmerge to mux their stuff into matroska, and its compiled for > Linux, Windows and MacOSX, but the only matroska video editor we have is > for Windows, and will handle only ( mostly ) tracks with VCM or ACM > compatibility mode, similar to AVI, and thats it. For playback, mplayer > and VLC would be the only viable x-platform options, means the guys have > to release special builds of those players, for each platform and with > their decoder included. Because they don't share a cross-platform codec interface. (and this idea was considered stupid by the MPlayer ppl) > For the time being it seems that only Helix is a true x-platform > multimedia framework, with a basic video editor and playback support on > all platforms. Their stuff compiles on Windows, Linux, MacOSX and > Solaris IIRC. But dont ask me if a codec developer would truely consider > to convince their users to use Realplayer to play their stuff ;) .... It is very possible to make another player than RealPlyer based on Helix. Actually the Linux RealPlayer is not the same as the Windows one. From R.S.Bultje at students.uu.nl Sat Mar 20 20:38:58 2004 From: R.S.Bultje at students.uu.nl (Ronald S. Bultje) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 20:38:58 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: [Matroska-devel] Re: [gst-devel] Gstreamer and matroska - theopensource answer to VideoforWindows/AVI and Quicktime/MOV ? In-Reply-To: References: <40338455.3050905@matroska.org> <1079641977.2412.1.camel@shrek.bitfreak.net> Message-ID: <1079811538.17277.29.camel@shrek.bitfreak.net> On Fri, 2004-03-19 at 04:28, Paul Bryson wrote: > I would prefer most things over Ogg because at this point it only stores Vorbis, > and soon officially Theora. Perhaps Matroska and NUT would be evenly preferred? > Although, I imagine that (like every other program) GStreamer would only allow > selecting a single initial default. But what would you pick? If you would > indeed prefer an open format, then Matroska seems the obvious choice here. It > will store anything, and is already in 'wide spread' use. We don't. We let the app decide, we let randomness decide, we let the alphabet decide, I don't know. We won't have any official "GStreamer file format" like Quicktime of VfW which is widely advertised on our website, in each of our apps, etc. If we ever set "ranking icons" for favoured or unfavoured formats, Matroska will get the same icon as other container formats that meet our requirements similarly well. Etc. Ogg is evenly preferred because it allows for storage of video and audio using open container, video and audio codec. That's good enough. Note that we don't have an Ogg muxer yet, though we're eagerly awaiting one. Nut is currently vapourware (or under development; whichever you prefer), see Michael's comments several months ago on ffmpeg-devel at . Besides, we don't have a Nut muxer. Ronald From jcsston at wiesneronline.net Sun Mar 21 09:22:19 2004 From: jcsston at wiesneronline.net (Jory) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 02:22:19 -0600 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: [Matroska-devel] Re: [gst-devel] Gstreamerand matroska -theopensource answer to VideoforWindows/AVI and Quicktime/MOV ? References: <40338455.3050905@matroska.org><1079641977.2412.1.camel@shrek.bitfreak.net> <1079811538.17277.29.camel@shrek.bitfreak.net> Message-ID: <002f01c40f1d$ac882bd0$0200a8c0@jcsston> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ronald S. Bultje" To: "Paul Bryson" Cc: ; ; Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 1:38 PM Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: [Matroska-devel] Re: [gst-devel] Gstreamerand matroska -theopensource answer to VideoforWindows/AVI and Quicktime/MOV ? > On Fri, 2004-03-19 at 04:28, Paul Bryson wrote: > > I would prefer most things over Ogg because at this point it only stores Vorbis, > > and soon officially Theora. Perhaps Matroska and NUT would be evenly preferred? > > Although, I imagine that (like every other program) GStreamer would only allow > > selecting a single initial default. But what would you pick? If you would > > indeed prefer an open format, then Matroska seems the obvious choice here. It > > will store anything, and is already in 'wide spread' use. > > We don't. We let the app decide, we let randomness decide, we let the > alphabet decide, I don't know. We won't have any official "GStreamer > file format" like Quicktime of VfW which is widely advertised on our > website, in each of our apps, etc. If we ever set "ranking icons" for > favoured or unfavoured formats, Matroska will get the same icon as other > container formats that meet our requirements similarly well. Etc. > > Ogg is evenly preferred because it allows for storage of video and audio > using open container, video and audio codec. That's good enough. Note > that we don't have an Ogg muxer yet, though we're eagerly awaiting one. > > Nut is currently vapourware (or under development; whichever you > prefer), see Michael's comments several months ago on ffmpeg-devel at . > Besides, we don't have a Nut muxer. > Nut is actually much better than Ogg, almost to the level of Matroska. For Nut you have specs, a few tools for creation and playback of Nut files, mplayer, spyder's muxer code, and Gabest's DShow demuxer. While for Ogg you have no specs and the vapourware, magical OggFile class which will solve all Ogg's problems... Jory From rbultje at ronald.bitfreak.net Sun Mar 21 23:05:01 2004 From: rbultje at ronald.bitfreak.net (Ronald Bultje) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 23:05:01 +0100 (CET) Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: [Matroska-devel] Re: [gst-devel] Gstreamerand matroska -theopensource answer to VideoforWindows/AVI and Quicktime/MOV ? In-Reply-To: <002f01c40f1d$ac882bd0$0200a8c0@jcsston> Message-ID: Hi, On Sun, 21 Mar 2004, Jory wrote: > For Nut you have specs, a few tools for creation and playback of Nut files, > mplayer, spyder's muxer code, and Gabest's DShow demuxer. Nut's specs aren't final. Besides that, no single movie on *my* HD is Nut. you know Eric Raymond's scratch and itch story, don't you? > While for Ogg you have no specs and the vapourware, magical OggFile class > which will solve all Ogg's problems... Unfortunately (or not?), I do have Ogg files. Ronald From chris at matroska.org Mon Mar 22 14:43:55 2004 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:43:55 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] Get matroska in the news again Message-ID: <405EED9B.1090500@matroska.org> Hi, it has been a little bit silent with respect to matroska marketing lately, that was mainly my fault because i couldnt invest as much time as i wanted into matroska recently. Just to inform you about whats planned for the near future : 1. New matroska packs : Nibor has uploaded a test version of the next packs, 1.0.2 . As some of you maybe dont know it, on many forums our matroska pack has a lot of fans because its installing most of the stuff you need for DivX/XviD playback, and is tiny and slim. Unfortunately it also had bad press because of the problems caused by mmswitch coming with it, especially in combination with some older codec packs ( after installing matroska pack, in some severe cases no single AVI/MPEG would play anymore ). My special thanks goes to our new team member Deedlette, who has been a firm protagonist of the matroska packs on various forums, mainly on http://suprnovaforums.org, and is mainly responsible for the great success the pack has even with non-matroska users. Welcome in the team Deedlette, we're glad to have you here ! The new pack will disable mmswitch by default, and come with an info page about when it is needed, as well as where to get better players with built in switchers. A link for those wanting to test is here : http://www.wiesneronline.net/downloads/matroska/Matroska_Pack_Full_v1.0.2_test.exe This version does still contain some grammar bugs in the Info page, but they were all corrected thanks to the great input from alexnoe already. I hope that Nibor had the time to correct most of them in latest version, and i guess we will put it online as soon as he's ready to go ( great work Robin, as always :-) ! ). 2. TCME : After the meeting last friday night it became obvious that jcsston has done some great work with respect to TCME already. His work was based on robux4's native MSVC port, and he has successfully ported many different plugins already. Only a nasty bug in the matroska muxer makes it impossible to release a first beta version already, including the capability to make a simple transcoder based on a XviD encoder plugin, allowing to create native MPEG4 MKV files from AVIsynth ( AVI ) input files. I will talk to Jory how we proceed here now, as it was decided that Gstreamer will be ported using mingw instead, making most of jcsston's porting work on the plugins redundant as he had told me. During the meeting on IRC i made clear that jcsston will have the last word about this, because it doesnt help at all if other people make decisions he wont accept, and all work on TCME stalls because of that. We better have a working solution based on a fork of Gstreamer, than no solution at all IMO. Mosu promised to try to port Gstreamer via mingw this weekend, but i know he was busy with other stuff. Jory also was briefly mentioning the possibility to use something like a hybrid solution, where the gstreamer core gets ported via mingw, but the plugins are ported natively, using MSVC for the compilation. I hope to be able to talk to him about that soon, so we can come up with a working strategy on how to proceed from where we are. Again, i expect once we release a first working version of this, and show the people what power is sleeping in this, we will see people jumping in to help us. It seems all thats missing now is that we find the bug in his ported matroska muxer plugin. 3. MIME types : Is it possible to undergo the process of registering matroska as a MIME type, based on the great work of Martin Nilsson ? Shouldnt we publish his specs on our homepage, and give him CVS access so he can update it once he makes some changes ? 4. MPC : I will visit CiTay tomorrow night in Kamen, and receive Frank's PC form him. My plan is to be able to visit customers somewhat close to him in the same week wednesday, and to deliver the PC to Frank. This is necessary because i will leave to China for 10 days next week sunday, so i have to deliver it before or Frank will get it 2 weeks later only. Expect some hooray on most of the public forums, if i hand the PC over to Frank and make a picture of the shake hand in his appartment. Hopefully Frank will be able to give us some new code to play with, because MPC in matroska would simply rock :) !! I hope i could give you some brief overview what the plans are for the next weeks to make sure people see we are an active project, even if the head devs are busy with more important private stuff for the time being ( Jory, how is HTML2DVD doing ;-) ). Comments welcome, as always :-) .... Christian From paul at msn.com Mon Mar 22 19:08:08 2004 From: paul at msn.com (Paul Bryson) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:08:08 -0600 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: Get matroska in the news again References: <405EED9B.1090500@matroska.org> Message-ID: "Christian HJ Wiesner" wrote... > 3. MIME types : > > Is it possible to undergo the process of registering matroska as a MIME > type, based on the great work of Martin Nilsson ? Shouldnt we publish > his specs on our homepage, and give him CVS access so he can update it > once he makes some changes ? >From the channel a few months ago. Mosu: Mime-Type for Matroska? audio/matroska, video/matroska, application/matroska * alley_cat uses video/x-matroska and audio/x-matroska locally what's the big reason for all those x- ? you're supposed to use x-* unless it's registered ah ok then use alley_cat's proposal So, where do we register, and how? Pamel From steve.lhomme at free.fr Mon Mar 22 20:37:59 2004 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 20:37:59 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: Get matroska in the news again In-Reply-To: References: <405EED9B.1090500@matroska.org> Message-ID: <405F4097.50202@free.fr> Paul Bryson wrote: > "Christian HJ Wiesner" wrote... > >>3. MIME types : >> >>Is it possible to undergo the process of registering matroska as a MIME >>type, based on the great work of Martin Nilsson ? Shouldnt we publish >>his specs on our homepage, and give him CVS access so he can update it >>once he makes some changes ? > > >>From the channel a few months ago. > > Mosu: Mime-Type for Matroska? > audio/matroska, video/matroska, application/matroska > * alley_cat uses video/x-matroska and audio/x-matroska locally > what's the big reason for all those x- ? > you're supposed to use x-* unless it's registered > ah ok > then use alley_cat's proposal > > So, where do we register, and how? At the ICANN. But as we have no legal existence that might be a big problem anyway. You don't *have to* it's just nicer to do it. From steve.lhomme at free.fr Tue Mar 23 09:45:59 2004 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:45:59 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: [Matroska-devel] New CSS version selecting in CVS. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <405FF947.2090304@free.fr> Paul Bryson wrote: > Also, added the new TrackOffset that I had mentioned earlier. Perhaps it would > be more appropriate to call it TrackTimecodeOffset? > http://matroska.org/technical/specs/index.html#TrackOffset Both are OK with me. From R.S.Bultje at students.uu.nl Tue Mar 23 20:48:24 2004 From: R.S.Bultje at students.uu.nl (Ronald S. Bultje) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 20:48:24 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-devel] Re: [Matroska-general] Re: Re: [gst-devel]Gstreamerandmatroska -theopensource answer to VideoforWindows/AVI and Quicktime/MOV? In-Reply-To: References: <002f01c40f1d$ac882bd0$0200a8c0@jcsston> Message-ID: <1080071304.14014.2.camel@shrek.bitfreak.net> On Mon, 2004-03-22 at 04:53, Paul Bryson wrote: > "Ronald Bultje" wrote... > > Unfortunately (or not?), I do have Ogg files. > With video? No. Does that matter for the Ogg model? Ronald From chris at matroska.org Wed Mar 24 11:29:33 2004 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:29:33 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] Get matroska in the news again In-Reply-To: <405EED9B.1090500@matroska.org> References: <405EED9B.1090500@matroska.org> Message-ID: <4061630D.40308@matroska.org> Christian HJ Wiesner wrote: > > Hi, > > it has been a little bit silent with respect to matroska marketing > lately, that was mainly my fault because i couldnt invest as much time > as i wanted into matroska recently. Just to inform you about whats > planned for the near future : > > 1. New matroska packs : > > Nibor has uploaded a test version of the next packs, 1.0.2 . As some > of you maybe dont know it, on many forums our matroska pack has a lot > of fans because its installing most of the stuff you need for > DivX/XviD playback, and is tiny and slim. Unfortunately it also had > bad press because of the problems caused by mmswitch coming with it, > especially in combination with some older codec packs ( after > installing matroska pack, in some severe cases no single AVI/MPEG > would play anymore ). > > My special thanks goes to our new team member Deedlette, who has been > a firm protagonist of the matroska packs on various forums, mainly on > http://suprnovaforums.org, and is mainly responsible for the great > success the pack has even with non-matroska users. Welcome in the team > Deedlette, we're glad to have you here ! > > The new pack will disable mmswitch by default, and come with an info > page about when it is needed, as well as where to get better players > with built in switchers. A link for those wanting to test is here : > http://www.wiesneronline.net/downloads/matroska/Matroska_Pack_Full_v1.0.2_test.exe > > > This version does still contain some grammar bugs in the Info page, > but they were all corrected thanks to the great input from alexnoe > already. I hope that Nibor had the time to correct most of them in > latest version, and i guess we will put it online as soon as he's > ready to go ( great work Robin, as always :-) ! ). > > > 2. TCME : > > After the meeting last friday night it became obvious that jcsston has > done some great work with respect to TCME already. His work was based > on robux4's native MSVC port, and he has successfully ported many > different plugins already. Only a nasty bug in the matroska muxer > makes it impossible to release a first beta version already, including > the capability to make a simple transcoder based on a XviD encoder > plugin, allowing to create native MPEG4 MKV files from AVIsynth ( AVI > ) input files. > > I will talk to Jory how we proceed here now, as it was decided that > Gstreamer will be ported using mingw instead, making most of jcsston's > porting work on the plugins redundant as he had told me. During the > meeting on IRC i made clear that jcsston will have the last word about > this, because it doesnt help at all if other people make decisions he > wont accept, and all work on TCME stalls because of that. We better > have a working solution based on a fork of Gstreamer, than no solution > at all IMO. Mosu promised to try to port Gstreamer via mingw this > weekend, but i know he was busy with other stuff. > > Jory also was briefly mentioning the possibility to use something like > a hybrid solution, where the gstreamer core gets ported via mingw, but > the plugins are ported natively, using MSVC for the compilation. I > hope to be able to talk to him about that soon, so we can come up with > a working strategy on how to proceed from where we are. Again, i > expect once we release a first working version of this, and show the > people what power is sleeping in this, we will see people jumping in > to help us. It seems all thats missing now is that we find the bug in > his ported matroska muxer plugin. > > > 3. MIME types : > > Is it possible to undergo the process of registering matroska as a > MIME type, based on the great work of Martin Nilsson ? Shouldnt we > publish his specs on our homepage, and give him CVS access so he can > update it once he makes some changes ? > > > 4. MPC : > > I will visit CiTay tomorrow night in Kamen, and receive Frank's PC > form him. My plan is to be able to visit customers somewhat close to > him in the same week wednesday, and to deliver the PC to Frank. This > is necessary because i will leave to China for 10 days next week > sunday, so i have to deliver it before or Frank will get it 2 weeks > later only. Expect some hooray on most of the public forums, if i hand > the PC over to Frank and make a picture of the shake hand in his > appartment. Hopefully Frank will be able to give us some new code to > play with, because MPC in matroska would simply rock :) !! > > I hope i could give you some brief overview what the plans are for the > next weeks to make sure people see we are an active project, even if > the head devs are busy with more important private stuff for the time > being ( Jory, how is HTML2DVD doing ;-) ). Comments welcome, as always > :-) .... > > Christian No comments from the team on all the other points, except 3. ?? I expect some input guys :-) ..... Christian From steve.lhomme at free.fr Wed Mar 24 16:59:58 2004 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 16:59:58 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] Get matroska in the news again In-Reply-To: <4061630D.40308@matroska.org> References: <405EED9B.1090500@matroska.org> <4061630D.40308@matroska.org> Message-ID: <4061B07E.5010706@free.fr> >> 2. TCME : >> >> After the meeting last friday night it became obvious that jcsston has >> done some great work with respect to TCME already. His work was based >> on robux4's native MSVC port, and he has successfully ported many >> different plugins already. Only a nasty bug in the matroska muxer It's good if the Windows port can help to improve the GStreamer plugin. The first positive point (before many others ?). >> makes it impossible to release a first beta version already, including >> the capability to make a simple transcoder based on a XviD encoder >> plugin, allowing to create native MPEG4 MKV files from AVIsynth ( AVI >> ) input files. AVISynth in GStreamer ? How does it work ? Or GStreamer can read .avs natively under windows (or under all platforms) ? >> I will talk to Jory how we proceed here now, as it was decided that >> Gstreamer will be ported using mingw instead, making most of jcsston's It's sad to restrict to only one compiler when it's quite easy to have MSVC7 and MSVC6 support. Only the log can be a problem, otherwise it should work fine and everyone can have it's preferred development environment. >> have a working solution based on a fork of Gstreamer, than no solution >> at all IMO. Mosu promised to try to port Gstreamer via mingw this >> weekend, but i know he was busy with other stuff. I'm back at work these days, I can help there. I have 3 development machines now (and only just one brain), which an different OS for each. >> Jory also was briefly mentioning the possibility to use something like >> a hybrid solution, where the gstreamer core gets ported via mingw, but >> the plugins are ported natively, using MSVC for the compilation. I If the plugins are DLLs, then yes, you can use whatever compiler you want. >> 4. MPC : >> >> I will visit CiTay tomorrow night in Kamen, and receive Frank's PC >> form him. My plan is to be able to visit customers somewhat close to >> him in the same week wednesday, and to deliver the PC to Frank. This >> is necessary because i will leave to China for 10 days next week >> sunday, so i have to deliver it before or Frank will get it 2 weeks >> later only. Expect some hooray on most of the public forums, if i hand >> the PC over to Frank and make a picture of the shake hand in his >> appartment. Hopefully Frank will be able to give us some new code to >> play with, because MPC in matroska would simply rock :) !! That's my main goal for now. I'm alredy adding fixes to CVS for OS X support. And then I'll slowly dig further. Frank said he will have a 1.2 version of the encoder/decoder source. I hope we'll be able to divide the stream in stand-alone packets soon. From jcsston at wiesneronline.net Thu Mar 25 04:32:00 2004 From: jcsston at wiesneronline.net (Jory) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 21:32:00 -0600 Subject: [Matroska-general] Get matroska in the news again References: <405EED9B.1090500@matroska.org> <4061630D.40308@matroska.org> <4061B07E.5010706@free.fr> Message-ID: <001d01c4121b$59be7ed0$0200a8c0@jcsston> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Lhomme" To: "General talk about Matroska and other products" Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [Matroska-general] Get matroska in the news again > >> 2. TCME : > >> > >> After the meeting last friday night it became obvious that jcsston has > >> done some great work with respect to TCME already. His work was based > >> on robux4's native MSVC port, and he has successfully ported many > >> different plugins already. Only a nasty bug in the matroska muxer > > It's good if the Windows port can help to improve the GStreamer plugin. > The first positive point (before many others ?). > > >> makes it impossible to release a first beta version already, including > >> the capability to make a simple transcoder based on a XviD encoder > >> plugin, allowing to create native MPEG4 MKV files from AVIsynth ( AVI > >> ) input files. > > AVISynth in GStreamer ? How does it work ? Or GStreamer can read .avs > natively under windows (or under all platforms) ? > > >> I will talk to Jory how we proceed here now, as it was decided that > >> Gstreamer will be ported using mingw instead, making most of jcsston's > > It's sad to restrict to only one compiler when it's quite easy to have > MSVC7 and MSVC6 support. Only the log can be a problem, otherwise it > should work fine and everyone can have it's preferred development > environment. > > >> have a working solution based on a fork of Gstreamer, than no solution > >> at all IMO. Mosu promised to try to port Gstreamer via mingw this > >> weekend, but i know he was busy with other stuff. > > I'm back at work these days, I can help there. I have 3 development > machines now (and only just one brain), which an different OS for each. > > >> Jory also was briefly mentioning the possibility to use something like > >> a hybrid solution, where the gstreamer core gets ported via mingw, but > >> the plugins are ported natively, using MSVC for the compilation. I > > If the plugins are DLLs, then yes, you can use whatever compiler you want. > GStreamer plugins use vararg marcos to declare the pads and types the plugin supports. The DLL exporting is not the problem. :/ From steve.lhomme at free.fr Fri Mar 26 10:08:57 2004 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:08:57 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] Dyne:bolic Message-ID: <4063F329.8050308@free.fr> Another Linux distribution aimed at multimedia, but this time on a Live CD. http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=6490 From steve.lhomme at free.fr Fri Mar 26 21:40:27 2004 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 21:40:27 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] Get matroska in the news again In-Reply-To: <001d01c4121b$59be7ed0$0200a8c0@jcsston> References: <405EED9B.1090500@matroska.org> <4061630D.40308@matroska.org> <4061B07E.5010706@free.fr> <001d01c4121b$59be7ed0$0200a8c0@jcsston> Message-ID: <4064953B.4040003@free.fr> Jory wrote: > GStreamer plugins use vararg marcos to declare the pads and types the plugin > supports. The DLL exporting is not the problem. :/ They really had portability in mind the day they designed their API... ;) From steve.lhomme at free.fr Tue Mar 30 10:40:41 2004 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:40:41 +0200 Subject: [Matroska-general] Interresting read Message-ID: <40693289.9040803@free.fr> ...for all developpers http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=6523 From chris at matroska.org Tue Mar 30 15:26:22 2004 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 15:26:22 +0200 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: Live streaming In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040329195637.023f5a60@mail.scvi.net> References: <6.0.3.0.2.20040329195637.023f5a60@mail.scvi.net> Message-ID: <4069757E.1000808@matroska.org> Hi Dave ! Dave wrote: > Chris, > I maintain the un-official website for NullSoft Video. > www.scvi.net. I was told of your project by a friend. > Can the matroska container format be used for live streams ? In principal yes, but as we are focussed on the storage side, at least for the time being, there is no working implementation of a matroska streaming solution. I guess the VLC guys are the ones who are closest to this. > Is there any server software that is capable of streaming Motroska > media ? Unfortunately not > I am planning including information about the matroska format as a > alternative to the shoutcast > protocol. Cheers Dave Alternative ? I was always of the opinion shoutcast could make use of matroska also ? or is it bound to Ogg container ? Christian matroska project admin From paul at msn.com Tue Mar 30 19:05:28 2004 From: paul at msn.com (Paul Bryson) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:05:28 -0600 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: Live streaming References: <6.0.3.0.2.20040329195637.023f5a60@mail.scvi.net> <4069757E.1000808@matroska.org> Message-ID: "Christian HJ Wiesner" wrote... > > I maintain the un-official website for NullSoft Video. > > www.scvi.net. I was told of your project by a friend. > > Can the matroska container format be used for live streams ? > > In principal yes, but as we are focussed on the storage side, at least > for the time being, there is no working implementation of a matroska > streaming solution. I guess the VLC guys are the ones who are closest to > this. Actually, Foobar2000 will read Matroska audio-only files from an HTTP server while it is being downloaded, ie streamed. > > Is there any server software that is capable of streaming Motroska > > media ? > > Unfortunately not I believe it works with any standard web server. > > I am planning including information about the matroska format as a > > alternative to the shoutcast > > protocol. Cheers Dave To stream Matroska with Shoutcast where a person jumps into the middle of the stream to start, you would want repeat the track information every few seconds. The track information tells you what each stream is inside of a Matroska file and is needed to decode any information. This has been discussed as an error resiliency technique to be used in all files in case the original track information is damaged, but I don't believe any muxing tool is doing it yet. However there should not be any issue with it and the track information does not take much space. The overhead required is relatively low for Matroska. It would obviously be more efficient to stream raw MP3 packets instead of MP3 packets inside of Matroska. And, the last time I looked, the Ogg container was slightly more efficient at storing low bitrate Vorbis than Matroska, but this needs to be reverified with the new audio lacing techniques being used in Matroska. Use of Matroska though makes it so that any format could be stored within Matroska and streamed where the audio player only needs a matroska streaming plug-in and an audio decoder plug-in. It saves the work of writing an audio decoder plug-in that also supports reading from a streamed source. Simplification. Pamel From steve.lhomme at free.fr Wed Mar 31 11:38:58 2004 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 11:38:58 +0200 Subject: [Matroska-general] Buy Matroska Message-ID: <406A91B2.9020901@free.fr> http://www.moscowstore.com/index.php?cPath=28 Prepare you Xmas presents. From nibor at gmx.net Wed Mar 31 18:21:12 2004 From: nibor at gmx.net (Robin Stocker) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 18:21:12 +0200 Subject: [Matroska-general] Buy Matroska In-Reply-To: <406A91B2.9020901@free.fr> References: <406A91B2.9020901@free.fr> Message-ID: <406AEFF8.4060100@gmx.net> Steve Lhomme wrote: > http://www.moscowstore.com/index.php?cPath=28 > > Prepare you Xmas presents. > _______________________________________________ > Matroska-general mailing list > Matroska-general at lists.matroska.org > http://lists.matroska.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/matroska-general > > Hehe, I already got one of those, so I'm a proud Matroska team member ;) Cheers! Robin From steve.lhomme at free.fr Wed Mar 31 19:29:19 2004 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 19:29:19 +0200 Subject: [Matroska-general] Buy Matroska In-Reply-To: <406AEFF8.4060100@gmx.net> References: <406A91B2.9020901@free.fr> <406AEFF8.4060100@gmx.net> Message-ID: <406AFFEF.3060104@free.fr> Robin Stocker wrote: > Steve Lhomme wrote: > >> http://www.moscowstore.com/index.php?cPath=28 >> >> Prepare you Xmas presents. > > Hehe, I already got one of those, so I'm a proud Matroska team member ;) :) I'll buy the unpainted ones from this page soon : http://www.russianlegacy.com/fr/go_to/shopping/img/matryoshka_01.htm