From chris at matroska.org Tue Feb 3 18:23:27 2004 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 18:23:27 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: [gst-devel] Porting Gstreamer to win32 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <401FD90F.2030208@matroska.org> Hi Sanjay, Sanjay, Addicam V wrote: >Is there some reference to this activity on the corecodec.org site or anywhere else. >Thanks >Sanjay > Nope, there isnt. Actually, porting gstreamer is part of our plan to create a nice, x-platform video editing tool. The purpose of this video editor, we didnt make big secret about this, is to make sure that matroska container is an option for the users, amongst other more well known containers ( MPEG, MP4, AVI, etc. ) we are planning to support from it. I dont know if this is a reason to be ashamed about, but i hope everybody understands that we are primarily working to help our project with this, as we know a missing editor is currently the biggest obstacle for people to use MP4 more frequently, and many still stick to AVI because of that. It has always been our preferred method to invite other developers with similar goals to join the project, we did the same with matroska that time when the specs were about to be freezed ( of course, without reactions from any side as you may know ;-) ). So i made an announcement on Hydrogenaudio.org and Doom9.org, the biggest video and audio communities in the internet we know of. Reactions from people were quite astonishing for us, some didnt like our preferred license, others told us to shut up and stop advertising 'unfinished vapourware' and the like. The author of a pretty well know video editor for Windows ( normally a very polite guy ) even told me in a private message to 'Shut up and code' , adding that he thinks we have no idea what we are trying to do here, and that this is anyhow beyond the capabilities of the matroska team. Because of all this very nice reactions ( well, some were *really* friendly ), we more or less decided to make development of this in the background, without big announcements on the homepage or the like. I hope this is somewhat understandable now. If you have things you liked to discuss with robux4, the chief developer behind the porting, i recommend to meet him on IRC, either #gstreamer or #matroska on irc.corecodec.com . BTW, robx4 decided to use the gstreamer CVS for his patches, but dont ask me about detials. Looking forward to talk to you, one way or another. Christian > >-----Original Message----- >From: gstreamer-devel-admin at lists.sourceforge.net >[mailto:gstreamer-devel-admin at lists.sourceforge.net]On Behalf Of >Benjamin Otte >Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 5:49 AM >To: ChristianHJW >Cc: gstreamer-devel at lists.sourceforge.net >Subject: Re: [gst-devel] Porting Gstreamer to win32 > > >On Sat, 17 Jan 2004, ChristianHJW wrote: > > > >>its probably to early to talk about this, but the main developer of the >>matroska team, Steve 'robux4' Lhomme, has recently been looking into >>this, using mingw. We will probably call it 'WinStreamer' and host it on >>our server, corecodec.org . >> >> >> >Any reason why you don't just do it in our cvs? > > > >>Any comments from your side ? How would you do it ? Is there anything >>existing yet we could try to build on ? Any ideas making a native port >>without cygwin or mingw ? >> >> >> >You should probably have a look at how glib/gtk are done on win32. Afaik >those are native ports using MSVC and they look quite nice. But you >should ask the people doing that on how it works exactly. >Especially because GStreamer depends on glib :) > >Benjamin > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moritz at bunkus.org Mon Feb 9 23:39:27 2004 From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 23:39:27 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] mkvtoolnix 0.8.3 released Message-ID: <20040209223927.GV3530@bunkus.org> Heya, it's been a couple of days since 0.8.2, and here's 0.8.3. A lot has changed internally, and I hope I haven't broken too many things ;) So far there have been really useful bug reports, so I hope it's ok. This release features bug fixes and new features, though these aren't major. Please read the ChangeLog (see below) for a full explanation. The mkvtoolnix homepage: http://www.bunkus.org/videotools/mkvtoolnix/index.html The source code: http://www.bunkus.org/videotools/mkvtoolnix/sources/mkvtoolnix-0.8.3.tar.bz2 Windows binaries: http://www.bunkus.org/videotools/mkvtoolnix/win32/mkvtoolnix-0.8.3.rar Those Windows users updating from a version prior to 0.8.2 need to re-download the runtime package: http://www.bunkus.org/videotools/mkvtoolnix/win32/mkvtoolnix-runtime.rar And here's the ChangeLog since 0.8.2: --------------------------------------------- 2004-02-09 Moritz Bunkus * Released v0.8.3. 2004-02-08 Moritz Bunkus * mkvmerge: new feature: The LANGUAGE, TITLE tags and chapters are being kept when reading OGM files. * mkvmerge: Changed the meaning of '--global-tags'. They now apply to the complete file. 2004-02-07 Moritz Bunkus * mkvmerge: bug fix: VobSub durations were not converted from ms to ns precision resulting in VERY short packets :) 2004-02-01 Moritz Bunkus * mkvmerge: bug fix: The change from ms to ns precision broke subtitle handling from OGM. 2004-01-31 Moritz Bunkus * mkvmerge: Made "do not link files when splitting" the default, just like in mmg. * mkvmerge: new feature: Enabled reading of AAC from OGMs. * mkvmerge: The VobSub reader will not discard packets that exceed a certain size (64KB) anymore. * mkvmerge: Improved some internal memory freeing decisions. This should help with files/sections in which are only few keyframes. 2004-01-30 Moritz Bunkus * mkvmerge: Changed the two-pass splitting into a one-pass splitting. The resulting files will always be a little bit larger than the desired size/length, but this shouldn't matter. 2004-01-25 Moritz Bunkus * mkvmerge: bug fix: Segfault when using external timecode v1 files. 2004-01-24 Moritz Bunkus * mmg: Rewrote the chapter editor. It now makes a lot more sense: You can have multiple names for one chapter entry, and for each name there's only one language/country association. 2004-01-23 Moritz Bunkus * mkvmerge: bug fix: The AAC-in-Real stuff again. 2004-01-22 Moritz Bunkus * mkvmerge: Changed the complete timecode handling from ms precision to ns precision. Expect some things to be broken by this change. * mkvmerge: bug fix: Fixed a couple of memory leaks, especially in the QuickTime/MP4 parser. 2004-01-21 Moritz Bunkus * mmg: Added some more extensions for RealMedia files. * mkvmerge: bug fix: Proper handling for AAC read from RealMedia files (sample rate/output sample rate were not assigned correctly). --------------------------------------------- Have fun :) Mosu -- If Darl McBride was in charge, he'd probably make marriage unconstitutional too, since clearly it de-emphasizes the commercial nature of normal human interaction, and probably is a major impediment to the commercial growth of prostitution. - Linus Torvalds -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From chris at matroska.org Tue Feb 10 10:43:57 2004 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:43:57 +0100 Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_=5BMatroska-general=5D_Re=3A_help_o?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?n_libmpdemux_usage_=28Modifi=E9_par_J=E9r=F4me_?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Cornet=29?= In-Reply-To: <400A9346.3000309@matroska.org> References: <31BE606C-459B-11D8-BB3C-003065EC20CA@club-internet.fr> <20040113095754.587f0a18.albeu@free.fr> <90DC9038-45AC-11D8-BB3C-003065EC20CA@aldorande.net> <20040113145301.GX257@brightrain.aerifal.cx> <40042167.3010103@ntlworld.com> <20040113191843 <40090D5A.1000909@free.fr> <400A9346.3000309@matroska.org> Message-ID: <4028A7DD.2050109@matroska.org> Christian HJ Wiesner wrote: > Steve, the reason i was copying the helix-general list on this email > was obvious : > I wanted to see if anybody from them has the balls to comment. I know > they made Helix GPL, but dont you see that they are violating the GPL > with this ? > Christian I now know that i know nothing BTW :-D ..... Helix people do have their own license type, i guess its called RPSL or the like ..... just wanted to correct my earlier statement about Helix people violating the GPL .... Christian From moritz at bunkus.org Wed Feb 11 09:36:46 2004 From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 09:36:46 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] mkvtoolnix 0.8.4 released Message-ID: <20040211083646.GB13745@bunkus.org> Heya, due to a very unfriendly bug I have to release 0.8.4 not two days after 0.8.3. Nash reported that when reading Matroska files durations were omitted which is fatal for any subtitle track (both VobSubs and text subs). This is the only change, but I strongly encourage you to update. The mkvtoolnix homepage: http://www.bunkus.org/videotools/mkvtoolnix/index.html The sources: http://www.bunkus.org/videotools/mkvtoolnix/sources/mkvtoolnix-0.8.4.tar.bz2 Windows binaries: http://www.bunkus.org/videotools/mkvtoolnix/win32/mkvtoolnix-0.8.4.rar Mosu -- If Darl McBride was in charge, he'd probably make marriage unconstitutional too, since clearly it de-emphasizes the commercial nature of normal human interaction, and probably is a major impediment to the commercial growth of prostitution. - Linus Torvalds From moritz at bunkus.org Thu Feb 12 16:33:32 2004 From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 16:33:32 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] mailing list archives are now searchable Message-ID: <20040212153332.GF8062@bunkus.org> Heya, I've added ht://dig as a search backend for the list archives. On the archives index pages (http://lists.matroska.org/ -> chose your list -> chose the archives likn) you'll find a link to the search pages. Mosu -- If Darl McBride was in charge, he'd probably make marriage unconstitutional too, since clearly it de-emphasizes the commercial nature of normal human interaction, and probably is a major impediment to the commercial growth of prostitution. - Linus Torvalds From chris at matroska.org Fri Feb 13 23:39:47 2004 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 23:39:47 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] new Totem player for GNOME now includes matroska support Message-ID: <402D5233.30301@matroska.org> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.video.xine.devel/7765 Nice that both possible backends for Totem, gstreamer and Xibe, have matroska playback support now :-) Christian From steve.lhomme at free.fr Tue Feb 17 10:23:42 2004 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 10:23:42 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] W2K leaked sources fun Message-ID: <4031DD9E.7030300@free.fr> http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/2/15/71552/7795 From chris at matroska.org Wed Feb 18 16:27:17 2004 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 16:27:17 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] Gstreamer and matroska - the opensource answer to VideoforWindows/AVI and Quicktime/MOV ? Message-ID: <40338455.3050905@matroska.org> Hi, this email is more to be seen as a brainstorming rather than an announcement or the like. My excuses go to the Gstreamer guys about copying their list, i dont know if they are interested in this kind of thinking at all. I was recently becoming aware that matroska's only hope to become established as standard, if this is ever going to happen, is versatility and flexibility. In short, to become a 100% replacement for good old AVI, currently the most used container format out there, probably on rivalled by MPEG. The reason this container is/was used so much can be explained when knowing its the standard container for VfW ( Video for Windows ), Redmond's old Media Framework. http://fourcc.org and http://abcavi.com give a pretty good impression how many different audio and video codecs had been developed for this framework in the past, obviously because of M$'s domination in the Multimedia scene and the sheer number of copies out in the wild. Now, as we all are well aware, both VCM ( the video codec API ) and ACM ( the audio codec API ) are completely outdated and can not support most of the modern compression formats anymore, leading to a number of problems and incompatibilities, of which VBR MP3 async and the 'packed bitstream' hack are the two most obvious to name. The successor of VfW, DirectShow, has never played the same role if it comes to video editing and video creation/encoding, due to a number of pretty bad limitations with respect to accessing the chain once its started. In short, DShow is wanting to much automatism here, stealing developers the possibilitites they request if they code a video application based on it. For this reason, DShow is today mainly used for playback and capturing. The big 'competitor' to VfW has always been Quicktime in the past, with MOV as the standard container. It is very well implemented into Mac's, and like DirectShow for Windows it can be seen as a fixed part of the OS. Its coming with a nice, open video and audio codec API also, which is much more powerful then VCM/ACM, and same is valid for the container. However, there is no working implementation of Quicktime ( the framework ) for Linux, at least i am not aware of such, and the Windows implementation of it sucks badly ( not to mention its payware if it should do more than just playback ). I was recently thinking that Gstreamer and matroska together could become the opensource counterpart to both of the framework/container combinations listed above, and am asking for opinions on this ? Once we really succeed in porting Gstreamer to win32 ( maybe even MacOSX in future ? ), and come up with a powerful but not overly complex codec API, sitting on top of the gstreamer plugin API ( via a wrapper ), do you think codec developers could actually consider supporting this API, chosing MKV as their 'preferred' container ? DivX.com have plans to release DivX6 from AVI and VCM, as well as from the MPEG4 standard in general. They have plans for a new, DivX6 specific container format i heard, and want to establish themselves as a new video standard that way, even with hardware support. Good luck, thats all i can say here. They would probably be better off to use their existing market power and support us to become the first true x-platform media framework and media format ? The reason DivX became so big is simply because it could be used from Virtualdub, and in AVI as a well supported container. If they now try to establish their own stuff, supported only by a small number of apps, and everything coded by themselves, they are very likely to fail IMO. Look at Real Networks, they understood this and went all the way back, trying to offer Helix as another universal framework, advertising it in the OSS scene even, and with great x-platform support, but still limited in terms of supported formats in it, and with only one ( for win32 sucky ) player for it. I am well aware gstreamer doesnt need matroska at all. Your way is clear, becoming the best media framework for the Linux world, and you guys wont mind if your project is ported to other OSes also, as this can only help you to achieve your goals, for sure. You could also settle for MOV as standard container, as there are currently no features realized in matroska that MOV cant do also, or have no standard container at all. On the other hand, you could win a couple of contributors and fans with such an 'alliance', if you allow me to name it like that. Opinions please, and use the 'reply all' button if i may ask for that, to copy both lists. Stupid idea ? Useless ? Possible ? Tell me what you think .... Regards Christian From steve.lhomme at free.fr Thu Feb 19 14:27:05 2004 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 14:27:05 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] Interresting DivX device Message-ID: <4034B9A9.8070404@free.fr> Especially because it's built by Plextor ! http://www.divx.com/hardware/detail.php?id=67 That could be a good replacement for my Radeon AIW (and use a more simple GPU)... From gjc at inescporto.pt Fri Feb 20 15:28:52 2004 From: gjc at inescporto.pt (Gustavo J. A. M. Carneiro) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 14:28:52 +0000 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: [gst-devel] Gstreamer and matroska - the opensource answer to VideoforWindows/AVI and Quicktime/MOV ? In-Reply-To: <40338455.3050905@matroska.org> References: <40338455.3050905@matroska.org> Message-ID: <1077287332.27349.14.camel@spectrum.inescn.pt> I wish I could be sufficiently well informed to make insightful comments about this issue. Since I'm not, I can only comment on the name. 'matroska' is a really poor name. It doesn't mean anything to most people. And what would the adopted file extension? That's a rhetorical question, as I'm sure it would sound bad. Why can't open source projects come up with better names? GStreamer, for example, is a good name. It is all about media pipelines. For a multimedia container format, why can't you come up with a better name, like Extensible Media Stream (.ems), or something like that. Another question, how does the matroska container relate to the generic (and also poorly named) OGG container? Is it really technically better? I'm just asking, I have no idea. Best regards. A Qua, 2004-02-18 ?s 15:27, Christian HJ Wiesner escreveu: > Hi, > > this email is more to be seen as a brainstorming rather than an > announcement or the like. My excuses go to the Gstreamer guys about > copying their list, i dont know if they are interested in this kind of > thinking at all. > > I was recently becoming aware that matroska's only hope to become > established as standard, if this is ever going to happen, is versatility > and flexibility. In short, to become a 100% replacement for good old > AVI, currently the most used container format out there, probably on > rivalled by MPEG. The reason this container is/was used so much can be > explained when knowing its the standard container for VfW ( Video for > Windows ), Redmond's old Media Framework. http://fourcc.org and > http://abcavi.com give a pretty good impression how many different audio > and video codecs had been developed for this framework in the past, > obviously because of M$'s domination in the Multimedia scene and the > sheer number of copies out in the wild. Now, as we all are well aware, > both VCM ( the video codec API ) and ACM ( the audio codec API ) are > completely outdated and can not support most of the modern compression > formats anymore, leading to a number of problems and incompatibilities, > of which VBR MP3 async and the 'packed bitstream' hack are the two most > obvious to name. > > The successor of VfW, DirectShow, has never played the same role if it > comes to video editing and video creation/encoding, due to a number of > pretty bad limitations with respect to accessing the chain once its > started. In short, DShow is wanting to much automatism here, stealing > developers the possibilitites they request if they code a video > application based on it. For this reason, DShow is today mainly used for > playback and capturing. > > The big 'competitor' to VfW has always been Quicktime in the past, with > MOV as the standard container. It is very well implemented into Mac's, > and like DirectShow for Windows it can be seen as a fixed part of the > OS. Its coming with a nice, open video and audio codec API also, which > is much more powerful then VCM/ACM, and same is valid for the container. > However, there is no working implementation of Quicktime ( the framework > ) for Linux, at least i am not aware of such, and the Windows > implementation of it sucks badly ( not to mention its payware if it > should do more than just playback ). > > I was recently thinking that Gstreamer and matroska together could > become the opensource counterpart to both of the framework/container > combinations listed above, and am asking for opinions on this ? Once we > really succeed in porting Gstreamer to win32 ( maybe even MacOSX in > future ? ), and come up with a powerful but not overly complex codec > API, sitting on top of the gstreamer plugin API ( via a wrapper ), do > you think codec developers could actually consider supporting this API, > chosing MKV as their 'preferred' container ? > > DivX.com have plans to release DivX6 from AVI and VCM, as well as from > the MPEG4 standard in general. They have plans for a new, DivX6 specific > container format i heard, and want to establish themselves as a new > video standard that way, even with hardware support. Good luck, thats > all i can say here. They would probably be better off to use their > existing market power and support us to become the first true x-platform > media framework and media format ? The reason DivX became so big is > simply because it could be used from Virtualdub, and in AVI as a well > supported container. If they now try to establish their own stuff, > supported only by a small number of apps, and everything coded by > themselves, they are very likely to fail IMO. Look at Real Networks, > they understood this and went all the way back, trying to offer Helix as > another universal framework, advertising it in the OSS scene even, and > with great x-platform support, but still limited in terms of supported > formats in it, and with only one ( for win32 sucky ) player for it. > > I am well aware gstreamer doesnt need matroska at all. Your way is > clear, becoming the best media framework for the Linux world, and you > guys wont mind if your project is ported to other OSes also, as this can > only help you to achieve your goals, for sure. You could also settle for > MOV as standard container, as there are currently no features realized > in matroska that MOV cant do also, or have no standard container at all. > On the other hand, you could win a couple of contributors and fans with > such an 'alliance', if you allow me to name it like that. Opinions > please, and use the 'reply all' button if i may ask for that, to copy > both lists. Stupid idea ? Useless ? Possible ? Tell me what you think .... > > Regards > > Christian > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > SF.Net is sponsored by: Speed Start Your Linux Apps Now. > Build and deploy apps & Web services for Linux with > a free DVD software kit from IBM. Click Now! > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1356&alloc_id=3438&op=click > _______________________________________________ > gstreamer-devel mailing list > gstreamer-devel at lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gstreamer-devel -- Gustavo Jo?o Alves Marques Carneiro The universe is always one step beyond logic. From chris at matroska.org Fri Feb 20 16:39:35 2004 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 16:39:35 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: [gst-devel] Gstreamer and matroska - the opensource answer to VideoforWindows/AVI and Quicktime/MOV ? In-Reply-To: <1077287332.27349.14.camel@spectrum.inescn.pt> References: <40338455.3050905@matroska.org> <1077287332.27349.14.camel@spectrum.inescn.pt> Message-ID: <40362A37.8090701@matroska.org> Hi Gustavo Gustavo J. A. M. Carneiro wrote: > I wish I could be sufficiently well informed to make insightful >comments about this issue. Since I'm not, I can only comment on the >name. 'matroska' is a really poor name. It doesn't mean anything to >most people. And what would the adopted file extension? That's a >rhetorical question, as I'm sure it would sound bad. > Why can't open source projects come up with better names? GStreamer, >for example, is a good name. It is all about media pipelines. For a >multimedia container format, why can't you come up with a better name, >like Extensible Media Stream (.ems), or something like that. > > Did nobody tell you the times for 3 letter acronyms are definitely over since some years now ;-) ? matroska was derived from a similar project with such a name, called MCF ( Multimedia Container Format ). Now, when we tried to register MCF.org for the project these days, we had to face that the 'Minnesota Cycling Federation' was faster :-D ..... lol ..... same for mcf.com, mcf.net, etc. The name matroska comes from the Russian word 'matrioshka' , and it has a related meaning. A media container can contain many different streams like an envelope, similar to the Russian dolls giving it its name, where one doll is put into the other. Sorry you dont like the name, i am pretty happy about it because its easy to remember and quite unique. Try googling for 'matroska', and you know what i mean. > Another question, how does the matroska container relate to the >generic (and also poorly named) OGG container? Is it really technically >better? I'm just asking, I have no idea. > Best regards. > A container is always a compromise, you wont find the one container being perfect in every respect. Lets say matroska is different than Ogg and will serve you better for certain things like video editing and future extendability. Ogg has other strong sides also, thats about it. Up to now, i cant see anything in the Ogg specs that would make it the preferred choice for a general use container, to put many different formats into it. But this may change one day, you never know. Best regards Christian From gjc at inescporto.pt Fri Feb 20 18:09:56 2004 From: gjc at inescporto.pt (Gustavo J. A. M. Carneiro) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 17:09:56 +0000 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: [gst-devel] Gstreamer and matroska - the opensource answer to VideoforWindows/AVI and Quicktime/MOV ? In-Reply-To: <4036313E.4010900@imn.htwk-leipzig.de> References: <40338455.3050905@matroska.org> <1077287332.27349.14.camel@spectrum.inescn.pt> <4036313E.4010900@imn.htwk-leipzig.de> Message-ID: <1077296996.21153.5.camel@spectrum.inescn.pt> A Sex, 2004-02-20 ?s 16:09, Stefan Kost escreveu: > Do you really don't know what a matroska is? Honestly, I didn't know. But it's my fault. Lack of culture :-P I just asked a couple of people here, and they tell me it is doll with another doll inside, and another inside that one, and so on. > Personaly it find that name quite cool for a (recursive) media *container*. Yeah, now that I know what it is, it does sound a bit better. -- Gustavo Jo?o Alves Marques Carneiro The universe is always one step beyond logic. From kost at imn.htwk-leipzig.de Fri Feb 20 17:09:34 2004 From: kost at imn.htwk-leipzig.de (Stefan Kost) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 17:09:34 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: [gst-devel] Gstreamer and matroska - the opensource answer to VideoforWindows/AVI and Quicktime/MOV ? In-Reply-To: <1077287332.27349.14.camel@spectrum.inescn.pt> References: <40338455.3050905@matroska.org> <1077287332.27349.14.camel@spectrum.inescn.pt> Message-ID: <4036313E.4010900@imn.htwk-leipzig.de> Do you really don't know what a matroska is? Personaly it find that name quite cool for a (recursive) media *container*. stefan Gustavo J. A. M. Carneiro wrote: > I wish I could be sufficiently well informed to make insightful > comments about this issue. Since I'm not, I can only comment on the > name. 'matroska' is a really poor name. It doesn't mean anything to > most people. And what would the adopted file extension? That's a > rhetorical question, as I'm sure it would sound bad. > > Why can't open source projects come up with better names? GStreamer, > for example, is a good name. It is all about media pipelines. For a > multimedia container format, why can't you come up with a better name, > like Extensible Media Stream (.ems), or something like that. > > Another question, how does the matroska container relate to the > generic (and also poorly named) OGG container? Is it really technically > better? I'm just asking, I have no idea. > > Best regards. > > A Qua, 2004-02-18 ?s 15:27, Christian HJ Wiesner escreveu: > >>Hi, >> >>this email is more to be seen as a brainstorming rather than an >>announcement or the like. My excuses go to the Gstreamer guys about >>copying their list, i dont know if they are interested in this kind of >>thinking at all. >> >>I was recently becoming aware that matroska's only hope to become >>established as standard, if this is ever going to happen, is versatility >>and flexibility. In short, to become a 100% replacement for good old >>AVI, currently the most used container format out there, probably on >>rivalled by MPEG. The reason this container is/was used so much can be >>explained when knowing its the standard container for VfW ( Video for >>Windows ), Redmond's old Media Framework. http://fourcc.org and >>http://abcavi.com give a pretty good impression how many different audio >>and video codecs had been developed for this framework in the past, >>obviously because of M$'s domination in the Multimedia scene and the >>sheer number of copies out in the wild. Now, as we all are well aware, >>both VCM ( the video codec API ) and ACM ( the audio codec API ) are >>completely outdated and can not support most of the modern compression >>formats anymore, leading to a number of problems and incompatibilities, >>of which VBR MP3 async and the 'packed bitstream' hack are the two most >>obvious to name. >> >>The successor of VfW, DirectShow, has never played the same role if it >>comes to video editing and video creation/encoding, due to a number of >>pretty bad limitations with respect to accessing the chain once its >>started. In short, DShow is wanting to much automatism here, stealing >>developers the possibilitites they request if they code a video >>application based on it. For this reason, DShow is today mainly used for >>playback and capturing. >> >>The big 'competitor' to VfW has always been Quicktime in the past, with >>MOV as the standard container. It is very well implemented into Mac's, >>and like DirectShow for Windows it can be seen as a fixed part of the >>OS. Its coming with a nice, open video and audio codec API also, which >>is much more powerful then VCM/ACM, and same is valid for the container. >>However, there is no working implementation of Quicktime ( the framework >>) for Linux, at least i am not aware of such, and the Windows >>implementation of it sucks badly ( not to mention its payware if it >>should do more than just playback ). >> >>I was recently thinking that Gstreamer and matroska together could >>become the opensource counterpart to both of the framework/container >>combinations listed above, and am asking for opinions on this ? Once we >>really succeed in porting Gstreamer to win32 ( maybe even MacOSX in >>future ? ), and come up with a powerful but not overly complex codec >>API, sitting on top of the gstreamer plugin API ( via a wrapper ), do >>you think codec developers could actually consider supporting this API, >>chosing MKV as their 'preferred' container ? >> >>DivX.com have plans to release DivX6 from AVI and VCM, as well as from >>the MPEG4 standard in general. They have plans for a new, DivX6 specific >>container format i heard, and want to establish themselves as a new >>video standard that way, even with hardware support. Good luck, thats >>all i can say here. They would probably be better off to use their >>existing market power and support us to become the first true x-platform >>media framework and media format ? The reason DivX became so big is >>simply because it could be used from Virtualdub, and in AVI as a well >>supported container. If they now try to establish their own stuff, >>supported only by a small number of apps, and everything coded by >>themselves, they are very likely to fail IMO. Look at Real Networks, >>they understood this and went all the way back, trying to offer Helix as >>another universal framework, advertising it in the OSS scene even, and >>with great x-platform support, but still limited in terms of supported >>formats in it, and with only one ( for win32 sucky ) player for it. >> >>I am well aware gstreamer doesnt need matroska at all. Your way is >>clear, becoming the best media framework for the Linux world, and you >>guys wont mind if your project is ported to other OSes also, as this can >>only help you to achieve your goals, for sure. You could also settle for >>MOV as standard container, as there are currently no features realized >>in matroska that MOV cant do also, or have no standard container at all. >>On the other hand, you could win a couple of contributors and fans with >>such an 'alliance', if you allow me to name it like that. Opinions >>please, and use the 'reply all' button if i may ask for that, to copy >>both lists. Stupid idea ? Useless ? Possible ? Tell me what you think .... >> >>Regards >> >>Christian >> >> >> >>------------------------------------------------------- >>SF.Net is sponsored by: Speed Start Your Linux Apps Now. >>Build and deploy apps & Web services for Linux with >>a free DVD software kit from IBM. Click Now! >>http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1356&alloc_id=3438&op=click >>_______________________________________________ >>gstreamer-devel mailing list >>gstreamer-devel at lists.sourceforge.net >>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gstreamer-devel -- \|/ Stefan Kost <@ @> private business +-oOO-(_)-OOo------------------------------------------------------ - - - - - | __ Address Simildenstr. 5 HTWK Leipzig, Fb IMN, Postfach 301166 | /// 04277 Leipzig 04251 Leipzig | __ /// Germany Germany | \\\/// Phone +49341 2253538 +49341 30766101 | \__/ EMail st_kost_at_gmx.net kost_at_imn.htwk-leipzig.de | WWW www.sonicpulse.de www.imn.htwk-leipzig.de/~kost/about.html ===-=-=--=---=---------------------------------- - - - - - -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: kost.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 345 bytes Desc: not available URL: From chris at matroska.org Fri Feb 20 22:14:41 2004 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 22:14:41 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] [Fwd: Re: mplayer G2] Message-ID: <403678C1.5090209@matroska.org> From mplayer-dev-eng : The 'bumpling idiots', thats us i guess. I wonder if this idiot is worth a call to my lawyer. Enough is enough IMO, and if his parents failed to teach this guy some manners, maybe we have to do it, responsible persons as we are ? Christian -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: mplayer G2 Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 23:16:30 -0500 From: D Richard Felker III Reply-To: mplayer-dev-eng at mplayerhq.hu Newsgroups: gmane.comp.video.mplayer.devel References: <200311291323.42458.elcabesa at inwind.it> <20040220001448.GD6897 at nibiru.metux.de> On Fri, Feb 20, 2004 at 01:14:49AM +0100, Enrico Weigelt wrote: > * elcabesa [2003-11-29 13:23:42 +0100]: > > > any news from mplayer g2? is thee a html page, something to download?? > > perhaps you also like to look at the media-api project > (currently hosted @mastroska.org) I'd recommend not. You'll laugh at their naive discussions... Like we do on #mplayerdev... :) > this project aims to develop a general purpose media processing api, > which can be used by a wide range of multimedia related applications > like video mplayers, realtime processing (asterisk?), ... Realtime? ROTFL! Maybe with a Beowulf cluster of multi-GHz machines... ;) > I'd like to see mplayer-g2 and media-api go together someday. > (@rich: please no flamewar against matroska ;-)) Never. One is developed by bumbling idiots trying to force their windows-centric C++/Java/XML/[insert your favorite CS toy here] nonsense on us. The other is designed by some of the most competent video coders on the planet who actually understand efficiency, performance, etc. Rich From niemayer at isg.de Sat Feb 21 00:54:21 2004 From: niemayer at isg.de (Peter Niemayer) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 00:54:21 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: [Fwd: Re: mplayer G2] In-Reply-To: <403678C1.5090209@matroska.org> References: <403678C1.5090209@matroska.org> Message-ID: <40369E2D.4070403@isg.de> Christian HJ Wiesner wrote: > From mplayer-dev-eng : > > The 'bumpling idiots', thats us i guess. I wonder if this idiot is worth > a call to my lawyer. Certainly not. For almost any piece of code you can find somebody with an exaggerated understanding of what is appropriate advocacy tout, but legal actions would primarily distract people from developing software, and that would harm both projects, which are both great in my opinion. mplayer is a great media player, with a development focus certainly more on feature-completeness and performance rather than textbook programming style. And matroska is a great container format which fills a gap that the predominance of the ancient and poor AVI format created along with the lazyness of all those who would rather add yet-another-hack-extension to AVI rather than cleanly design a new container from scratch. I wouldn't like to miss either. Having a super-modular-ultimately-well-designed- and-documented video player wouldn't help if that player was lacking performance or codec support. And being stuck with AVI for eternity would be just as bad, even if there was a hand-optimized assembler implementation for every CPU on earth that would demultiplex AVI with the lowest possible cycle count. Cheers, Peter Niemayer From moritz at bunkus.org Sun Feb 22 23:02:50 2004 From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 23:02:50 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] mkvtoolnix 0.8.5 released Message-ID: <20040222220250.GA9976@bunkus.org> Heya, here's another release of mkvtoolnix, 0.8.5 this time. It's purely a bug fix release. You can find the improvements below in the ChangeLog. The homepage: http://www.bunkus.org/videotools/mkvtoolnix/index.html The sources: http://www.bunkus.org/videotools/mkvtoolnix/sources/old/mkvtoolnix-0.8.5.tar.bz2 The Windows binaries: http://www.bunkus.org/videotools/mkvtoolnix/win32/mkvtoolnix-0.8.5.rar The ChangeLog: ------------------------------------ 2004-02-22 Moritz Bunkus * Released v0.8.5. 2004-02-21 Moritz Bunkus * mkvmerge: bug fix: segfault in the RealMedia reader. * mmg: bug fix: When adding a Matroska file that contains a track name or a title with non-ASCII characters those would be displayed as UTF-8 in the appropriate input boxes. This has been changed, but obviously it won't work if you add files with Japanese characters on a system with a different locale. For full Unicode support you'll have to wait quite a bit longer. * mmg: bug fix: For some 'browse file' buttons the default directory was not set to the last directory a file was selected from. 2004-02-16 Moritz Bunkus * mmg: new feature: Added a function for adjusting the chapter timecodes by a fixed amount. 2004-02-15 Moritz Bunkus * mkvmerge: bug fix: Splitting by size would sometimes abort directly after opening the second file. 2004-02-14 Moritz Bunkus * mkvmerge: bug fix: Splitting by time was broken. 2004-02-12 Moritz Bunkus * all: A couple of changes that allow compilation on MacOS X. * avilib: synchronized with transcode's current CVS version. ------------------------ Have fun. Mosu -- If Darl McBride was in charge, he'd probably make marriage unconstitutional too, since clearly it de-emphasizes the commercial nature of normal human interaction, and probably is a major impediment to the commercial growth of prostitution. - Linus Torvalds From chris at matroska.org Wed Feb 25 01:49:18 2004 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 01:49:18 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] New Spanish matroska site Message-ID: <403BF10E.2070801@matroska.org> http://www.matroska.info From our friend Affar :-) ..... Christian From steve.lhomme at free.fr Thu Feb 26 10:01:52 2004 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 10:01:52 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] On page rankings Message-ID: <403DB600.2060805@free.fr> http://www.gorank.com/research/02192004_Yahoo_Google_Comparison_Density_Report.php http://www.gorank.com/research/01072004_Google_Density_Report.php From chris at matroska.org Thu Feb 26 21:33:27 2004 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 21:33:27 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: I hate you In-Reply-To: <403E13E0.70204@free.fr> References: <8a99bd1799182d.36e25qmailV05.86@matroska.org> <403E13E0.70204@free.fr> Message-ID: <403E5817.90901@matroska.org> Steve, i dont think so, but it seems that matroska has been targeted by somebody who doesnt like us. I received 25 spam emails alone today, some of them directed to license at matroska.org , some to chris at matroska.org and some to christian at matroska.org. Some of this virii simply exchange the sender adress to any other adress they were also sending spam to :-( ...... Steve Lhomme wrote: > Chris, > You're probably infected by a virus ! > And what is this xsender at matroska.org email that it was sent to ? > > christian at matroska.org wrote: >> And now,,, Go Away From Me >> Here are my love-letter((s)) mock me mock me again and again . Enjoy >> it. blablabla GO! > From spyder at matroska.org Fri Feb 27 06:10:32 2004 From: spyder at matroska.org (John Cannon) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 23:10:32 -0600 Subject: [Matroska-general] New Spanish matroska site In-Reply-To: <403BF10E.2070801@matroska.org> References: <403BF10E.2070801@matroska.org> Message-ID: <403ED148.2080409@matroska.org> Christian HJ Wiesner wrote: > > http://www.matroska.info > > From our friend Affar :-) ..... > > Christian > > _______________________________________________ > Matroska-general mailing list > Matroska-general at lists.matroska.org > http://lists.matroska.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/matroska-general > YAY! Something for me to read in Spanish :)