From Liisachan at faireal.net Sat Nov 1 01:11:52 2003 From: Liisachan at faireal.net (Liisachan) Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 09:11:52 +0900 Subject: [Matroska-general] The near future of matroska - where do we go now? In-Reply-To: <001c01c39fd1$cd23c2c0$0200a8c0@jcsston> References: <3FA2825A.9020009@matroska.org> <001c01c39fd1$cd23c2c0$0200a8c0@jcsston> Message-ID: <3FA2FA48.8060609@faireal.net> Jory wrote: >>- FLAC support >> >> >> > >FLAC is already supported via the FLAC DShow En/Decoder filters. >http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?showtopic=13921 > >Jory > >_______________________________________________ >Matroska-general mailing list >Matroska-general at lists.matroska.org >http://lists.matroska.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/matroska-general > > > > Thnx for this great work :) i tested CoreFLAC.ax n CoreFLACEncoder.dll and they work fine basically. my graph is like.... WAV -> wav parser -> CoreFlac encoder -> Matroska muxer -> mkv it muxes, the file plays. some (minor) problems are: 1: codec id given thru graphedit is A_MS/ACM 2. cant demux as flac 3. cant eat flac the audio can be extracted as WAV: mkv -> splitter -> CoreFlac decoder -> WAV dest -> wav BUT the resulted WAV is not 100% same with the input WAV, even tho the difference might be very small (possibly WAV dest is wrong?) Lossless lovers should be extremely picky about this anyway.... But yesterday CoreFLAC today CorePNG..... Core* owns! *Liisachan* From chris at matroska.org Sat Nov 1 01:19:15 2003 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 01:19:15 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-devel] Re: [Matroska-general] The near future of matroska - where do we go now? In-Reply-To: <001c01c39fd1$cd23c2c0$0200a8c0@jcsston> References: <3FA2825A.9020009@matroska.org> <001c01c39fd1$cd23c2c0$0200a8c0@jcsston> Message-ID: <3FA2FC03.7040309@matroska.org> Jory wrote: >>- FLAC support >> >> >> > >FLAC is already supported via the FLAC DShow En/Decoder filters. >http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?showtopic=13921 > >Jory > > Jesusu, Jory, you are faster than a flash lightning .... i didnt find this thread because i cant access Hydrognaudio.org from home for the time being, their internal firewall will block me for some strange reason. Now, do i understand this correctly : The FLAC encoder filter will - write valid FLAC files when connecting to a file writer - wriate valid FLAC in MKV files when connected to matroska muxer Toff's FLAC decoder filter will - only be able to decode FLAC from MKV ( or Ogg ) ?? Ok, so i tried to download the binaries according to the Goecities link you gave, and had to realize that Chinese ISPs are obviously blocked from accessing Geocities. However, using my tunnel via my server in Germany it worked and i could download both binaries. I uploaded them to matroska.free.fr, but will talk to Toff about releasing them officially in the CoreFLAC project on corecodec.org, where they belong IMHO. Here the new links : Http://downloads.matroska.org/downloads/CoreFLACEncoder-v0.1.zip Http://downloads.matroska.org/downloads/CoreFLACDecoder.zip I will test this as soon as i can. Some questions : 1. Will the files be written as native FLAC files from matroskamuxer, or use the A_MS/ACM mode ? If so, i hate to say i dont like it. In this case we have to contact Gabest and talk to him about defining a new MEDIASUBTYPE for connection from the encoder to the muxer, and make it write native FLAC codec IDs 2. You didnt update the codec ID page, adding a native FLAC ID ? 3. Can MKV files with FLAC be edited on VdubMod already ? Thanks for some answers Christian From chris at matroska.org Sat Nov 1 15:50:28 2003 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 15:50:28 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: [Matroska-devel] DVDtoOGM with Matroska support In-Reply-To: <20031101135224.GL13719@bunkus.org> References: <20031101135224.GL13719@bunkus.org> Message-ID: <3FA3C834.400@matroska.org> Hi Mosu, first of all, let me say that this email, IMHO, should go to matroska-general and not to matroska-devel, as its not really development related. I copy matroska-general on it, and i recommend to reply to there insted. My answer can be found below. Moritz Bunkus wrote: >Hi. > >This conversation took place today: > >.12:21:42.< DVDtoOgm> Hi... >.12:23:52.< DVDtoOgm> ChristianHJW available? >.12:24:28.< alex_here> wake him up :p >.12:24:43.< DVDtoOgm> oh... sleeping :-) >.12:25:06.< DVDtoOgm> do you know when he's usually here? >.12:25:14.< alex_here> what do you need him for? >.12:25:33.< DVDtoOgm> talking about DVDtoOgm and Matroska... >.12:25:49.< alex_here> you don't need him for that :) >.12:25:51.<@Mosu> he's in china at the moment, >.12:26:09.< DVDtoOgm> wow... seems to be far away from talking with me :-) >.12:26:13.<@Mosu> but he's online from time to time >.12:26:32.< DVDtoOgm> well might be hard to catch this time >.12:26:56.< DVDtoOgm> when will he return from there? do you know? >.12:27:21.< alex_here> another question: what does he know what we don't? >.12:27:32.< DVDtoOgm> well, let me tell you: >.12:28:09.< DVDtoOgm> He asked me, if I'm interested in making DVDtoOgm (maybe with another name) to the official Matroska support tool... >.12:28:25.< DVDtoOgm> and he invited me to come here... >.12:28:31.< alex_here> The tool as in 'the one and only'? >.12:29:07.< DVDtoOgm> well, somethink like this... >.12:29:39.< alex_here> omg >.12:29:57.<@Mosu> oyg? :) >.12:30:09.< DVDtoOgm> we had a german conversation via eMail and he posted some requests in the official german DVDtoOgm-Frounm >.12:30:14.< DVDtoOgm> Forum, sorry >.12:30:20.< alex_here> what does he always need such things for :( >.12:30:30.< DVDtoOgm> for what? >.12:30:34.< alex_here> can you give a link? >.12:30:50.< DVDtoOgm> forum or DVDtoOgm-Homepage? >.12:30:54.<@Mosu> the latter >.12:30:57.< alex_here> forum >.12:31:02.<@Mosu> doh :) >.12:31:06.<@Mosu> for both, then ;) >.12:31:08.< alex_here> better just the corresponding thread >.12:31:17.< DVDtoOgm> second.. >.12:31:31.< DVDtoOgm> (its german, remember) :-) >.12:31:42.-!- P0l1m0rph1c [~Dcoder at CC-3BB7AC4E.telepac.pt] has joined #matroska >.12:31:49.< alex_here> solange es nicht chinesisch ist... >.12:32:19.<@Mosu> genau >.12:32:20.< DVDtoOgm> http://www.flaskmpeg.info/board/thread.php?threadid=3885&sid= >.12:32:24.<@Mosu> solange is uns das schon recht ;) >.12:32:26.< DVDtoOgm> na also... >.12:32:44.< DVDtoOgm> das klingt doch gut... und ich brech mir hier einen in englisch ab... >.12:33:08.< DVDtoOgm> naja, es kommen auch noch ein paar eMail dazu, die er geschrieben hat. >.12:33:23.<@Mosu> offizielle sprache des channels is auch englisch ;) >.12:33:25.-!- jcsston_zZz [jcsston at 207534E3.F8ECB96B.1AF242AD.IP] has joined #matroska >.12:33:35.< alex_here> "das klingt doch gut... und ich brech mir hier einen in englisch ab..." <= liegt daran, da? es unfreundlich ist, deutsch zu reden, weil das hier net jeder kann >.12:33:42.-!- jcsston_zZz is now known as jcsston >.12:33:42.< alex_here> franz?sisch ginge also notfalls auch noch ;) >.12:33:46.<@Mosu> wir haben zu viele franzosen, die kein deutsch koennen (und zu viele amis, die ebenfals kein deutsch koennen ;)) >.12:33:47.< DVDtoOgm> Homepage von DVDtoOgm ist http://DVDtoOgm.DivX-Digest.com >.12:33:56.< DVDtoOgm> ok, then back to english... >.12:34:02.< DVDtoOgm> I'll try... >.12:34:22.< alex_here> ?????? :) >.12:34:35.<@Mosu> ah. well something like dvdtoogm is still missing for matroska, that's true >.12:34:55.<@Mosu> as gknot won't have matroska support soon >.12:35:22.< DVDtoOgm> yes... I'm very close to a new release, which will try to come close to the features that are offered by GKnot... >.12:35:36.< alex_here> yeah...this guy does not get the fact the matroska overhead prediction is not done using a simple formula :( >.12:35:47.< alex_here> the=that >.12:35:52.< DVDtoOgm> Then I would be very interested in a full MKV support, which is atm not very good... >.12:36:01.<@Mosu> great to hear :) >.12:36:12.< DVDtoOgm> BUT: >.12:36:21.<@Mosu> everything you've listed on the 'was ist dvdtoogm?' page is definitely possible with matroska >.12:36:46.< DVDtoOgm> Christian told me DVDtoOgm have to be open-source for that... >.12:36:50.<@Mosu> hmm >.12:36:53.<@Mosu> depends >.12:37:00.* alex_here has read that thread :o >.12:37:17.< DVDtoOgm> and thats not really what i want it to be... :-) >.12:37:21.<@Mosu> if you 'only' use other open source tools, e.g. my mkvmerge, then it's not required, i think >.12:37:33.<@Mosu> but if you re-use our code then your code has to be gpl'ed as well >.12:38:03.< DVDtoOgm> all, used in Code used in DVDtoOgm is self coded... >.12:38:13.< alex_here> really? >.12:38:13.< DVDtoOgm> or I asked for permission... >.12:38:13.<@Mosu> judging from the 'was ist dvdtoogm' page i'd say that calling an external app would suffice for all those tasks >.12:38:23.< alex_here> you don't use libvorbis and such crap? >.12:39:02.< DVDtoOgm> well just a Mpeg2Dec.dll and some external Tools like VDubMod... >.12:39:09.< DVDtoOgm> no libvorbis so far... >.12:39:21.< DVDtoOgm> (MKV support is just about to start) >.12:39:32.< alex_here> without libmatroska, right? :D >.12:39:55.< DVDtoOgm> you just can choose mkv output... >.12:39:56.<@Mosu> i think dvdtoogm does not write ogm files itself but haves other apps do that for it >.12:40:03.<@Mosu> haves !? >.12:40:04.<@Mosu> omg >.12:40:09.<@Mosu> am i totally brain damaged now? >.12:40:11.< DVDtoOgm> VirtualDubMod >.12:40:12.< alex_here> ah >.12:40:31.< alex_here> "Mosu am i totally brain damaged now?" <= :) >.12:40:35.<@Mosu> so yes, matroska could be realized in the same way then without your code having to be open source >.12:40:46.< alex_here> "DVDtoOgm VirtualDubMod " <= i hope you don't use those builds which write b0rked files >.12:41:06.<@Mosu> alex_here: i'm fighting with/against automake at the moment, so every mistake i make here is already excused ;) >.12:41:10.< alex_here> http://www.flaskmpeg.info/board/thread.php?threadid=3875&sid=50423e391c98b3367dac176cba742902 <= lol >.12:41:11.< DVDtoOgm> The new DVDtoOgm Release 1.40 (out soon) >.12:42:04.< DVDtoOgm> uses VDubMod 1.5.4 >.12:42:12.< alex_here> which one? >.12:42:18.< alex_here> builds 2092 and earlier are b0rked >.12:42:18.< DVDtoOgm> after I requestsd the spli feature... >.12:42:38.< DVDtoOgm> it is 2092 >.12:42:45.< alex_here> :-) >.12:42:53.< DVDtoOgm> but a update is no problem... >.12:42:57.< alex_here> this one suffers from a b0rk in libebml :D >.12:43:01.< alex_here> good >.12:43:15.< DVDtoOgm> its not released yet... >.12:43:20.<@Mosu> ah yes, after having read the thread i know why christian insisted on opensource software >.12:43:31.<@Mosu> well i personally don't think it's THAT bad >.12:43:38.<@Mosu> because you're not one of our core members >.12:43:46.< alex_here> he's a bit paranoid >.12:44:06.<@Mosu> so if you write some closed-source app no one can say that we (as in 'the core matroska devels') want world domination and a shitload of money >.12:44:06.< DVDtoOgm> I can understand him, but I'm not really interested in doing so out of 2 reasons... >.12:44:10.< alex_here> he even protested when i added possibilities to intentionally write b0rked files for testing purposes in avi-mux gui >.12:44:51.-!- Toff_eating is now known as Toff >.12:45:18.< DVDtoOgm> well so I'll be glad to help Matroska with DVDtoOgm, but I dislike to go open source for this... >.12:45:40.<@Mosu> i think we can come to an agreement here >.12:45:42.< DVDtoOgm> if a closed source tool is ok, I would be VERY happy to help... >.12:45:54.<@Mosu> i'd say 'yes' >.12:46:02.<@Mosu> and we'll convince chris, too >.12:46:10.< DVDtoOgm> yes to closed sourse? >.12:46:13.< DVDtoOgm> source >.12:46:21.<@Mosu> yes >.12:46:26.< DVDtoOgm> that sounds nice... >.12:46:30.<@Mosu> but lemme get this straight >.12:46:38.< DVDtoOgm> yes? >.12:46:50.<@Mosu> your app calls external apsp for most of the work, e.g. muxing, extracting etc? >.12:47:00.< DVDtoOgm> yepp.... >.12:47:07.<@Mosu> ok, then closed source ain't a problem for me >.12:47:16.< DVDtoOgm> you can easily compare DVDtoOgm to Gordian Knot... >.12:47:24.<@Mosu> that's what i thought >.12:47:27.< DVDtoOgm> just for Ogm... >.12:47:31.<@Mosu> i just wanted to make sure >.12:47:58.< DVDtoOgm> maybe you should download DVDtoOgm and have a look at it... >.12:48:06.< DVDtoOgm> (a older release) >.12:48:07.<@Mosu> i usually don't use windows ;) >.12:48:15.< DVDtoOgm> oh :-) >.12:48:31.< DVDtoOgm> but very much people do so :-) >.12:48:42.<@Mosu> i know :) >.12:48:48.< DVDtoOgm> ok... >.12:48:50.< DVDtoOgm> so: >.12:49:37.< DVDtoOgm> I'll release DVDtoOgm 1.40 (which is almost finished...) and after this we'll work on Matroska support... >.12:49:40.< DVDtoOgm> :-) >.12:49:45.<@Mosu> sounds great >.12:49:50.< DVDtoOgm> Hust an important note: >.12:49:55.< DVDtoOgm> Hust -> Just >.12:50:19.< DVDtoOgm> My knowledge about coding is not sooo good... >.12:50:38.< alex_here> that's more than Christian :) >.12:50:42.< DVDtoOgm> I learned in school and the rest I thought myself.. >.12:51:04.< alex_here> the only thing I was *taught* is Haskell >.12:51:16.< alex_here> you can't be taught coding >.12:51:22.< DVDtoOgm> slowly I'm rewriting parts of DVDtoOgm to make them better, but I'm still not a hero on coding... >.12:51:29.<@Mosu> hey, if you've gotten so far with dvdtoogm then the rest won't be much harder >.12:51:43.< DVDtoOgm> Hehe, nice to hear :-) >.12:51:56.<@Mosu> don't worry, not everyone here is the Superhero of Effective Coding either ;) >.12:52:01.< DVDtoOgm> DVDtoOgm is in Delphi (like you might guessed) >.12:52:09.< alex_here> omg :p >.12:52:32.< DVDtoOgm> ok, this sounds all very good... >.12:52:59.< DVDtoOgm> So, next problem: >.12:53:12.< DVDtoOgm> Never worked with Mkv bevore :-( >.12:53:29.< DVDtoOgm> I just concentrated on ogm, so what are the current features? >.12:53:33.< Rounin> Anyone wanna come up with a name for my text editor? (Sorry to interrupt, btw) >.12:54:53.< DVDtoOgm> ??? >.12:55:18.< Rounin> Yeah, that could work >.12:55:24.<@Mosu> Rounin: how about 'puke'? :) >.12:56:02.< jcsston> or 'Runny' ? >.12:56:05.< DVDtoOgm> ?h?!? >.12:56:05.< Rounin> T_T Beautiful... >.12:56:19.<@Mosu> DVDtoOgm: well basically it can do everything ogm can do and then some. implemented in various tools are e.g. realvideo, usual mpeg4 video, ac3/aac/mp3/dts/vorbis/realaudio, srt subs, ssa subs, vobsubs, chapters, tags >.12:56:21.< DVDtoOgm> So what about the features of Mkv for now... >.12:56:21.< Rounin> Hahaha... I'm actively considering that last one >.12:56:34.< DVDtoOgm> ah... >.12:56:35.< DVDtoOgm> THX >.12:57:03.< DVDtoOgm> That sounds good... >.12:57:04.<@Mosu> vdubmod can handle most of them, mkvmerge can handle all of those >.12:57:25.<@Mosu> mkvmerge is a command line program for creating matroska files >.12:57:38.<@Mosu> alex_here's avi-mux gui is a gui app for the same purpose >.12:57:46.< DVDtoOgm> Ok, so the handling of Ogm and MKV in VDubMod ist the same= >.12:57:47.< Rounin> ?h is go... I wonder if I could find some Swedish phrase to make it into an acronym >.12:57:48.< DVDtoOgm> ? >.12:58:10.<@Mosu> basically yes, but i'm no expert on this topic >.12:58:16.<@Mosu> you'd have to ask cyrius when he's here >.12:58:26.<@Mosu> which is usually afternoon/evenings >.12:58:33.< DVDtoOgm> ok, got to chat with Cyruis again, he :-)) >.12:58:59.< alex_here> "Ok, so the handling of Ogm and MKV in VDubMod ist the same=" <= not really. You should not even dream about joining several mkv files into one file using vdm >.12:59:09.< DVDtoOgm> we had a lot a conversation already... >.12:59:39.< DVDtoOgm> so no muxing with VirtualDubMod? >.12:59:44.< DVDtoOgm> for Mkv? >.12:59:58.<@Mosu> hehehe >.12:59:59.< alex_here> muxing ey >.13:00:02.< alex_here> yes >.13:00:09.< alex_here> but don't use MKV as input >.13:00:24.< DVDtoOgm> well, input would be avi... >.13:00:27.<@Mosu> that wouldn't be necessary, i think >.13:00:32.<@Mosu> so yes, vdubmod can be used >.13:00:33.< alex_here> good >.13:00:34.<@Mosu> but >.13:00:37.<@Mosu> talk to cyrius ;) >.13:00:56.< DVDtoOgm> jepp, I'll do so, after DVDtoOgm 1.40 is out... >.13:01:30.< DVDtoOgm> This sounds all very nice... we just need a Name :-)))) >.13:02:00.< DVDtoOgm> DVDto -> OGM <- wouldn't be best! >.13:02:34.< alex_here> DVDtoAVI :) >.13:02:45.< DVDtoOgm> why that? >.13:02:53.-!- bond [~bond at CC-E4F8D42.adsl.univie.ac.at] has quit [] >.13:02:56.< DVDtoOgm> DVDto??? >.13:03:03.< alex_here> because I like AVI :) >.13:03:22.-!- superdump [~Robert at 213FF3BD.86FDEB6A.1A13A32B.IP] has quit [Connection reset by peer] >.13:03:31.< DVDtoOgm> yeah well, the name should not be of what you like and what you don't ;-) >.13:03:48.< DVDtoOgm> ok... so lets stop here... i got work to do... >.13:03:49.<@Mosu> DVDtoSomethingBetter ;) >.13:03:51.<@Mosu> me too >.13:03:59.<@Mosu> have to go to minimal >.13:04:09.< DVDtoOgm> well check that all in about 2-3 weeks :-9 >.13:04:58.< DVDtoOgm> Thank you, for this information... and habe a chat to christian about this open source stuff :-) >.13:05:11.<@Mosu> i'll write an email, too, with this conversation >.13:05:15.-!- Insolit [~81.84.13. at 3402A868.16EA7345.340977B5.IP] has quit [Ping timeout] >.13:05:19.< DVDtoOgm> Good bye... Thx for help! >.13:05:24.<@Mosu> anyway, be back later >.13:05:26.<@Mosu> you're welcome >.13:05:27.< DVDtoOgm> @ Mosu: THX >.13:05:27.-!- You're now known as MosuAway >.13:05:35.< DVDtoOgm> CU > >I've expressed my thoughts already during the conversation, but I really >don't see that DVDtoOGM going OpenSource should be a neccessity. He'll >just use our _apps_, not our _code_. This project could be a good >replacement for GKnot's Matroska support which is not coming. And no one >can really accuse us in this case 'cause it's a totally different >project/person who will use our tools. We (as in 'the core Matroska >devels') are all OpenSource. A ClosedSource app is going to use our >tools. So what? >My vote is 'go for it!'. > > To understand why i am so paranoid about going opensource with such a tool is founded on a couple of reasons : 1. I was planning to make this program a fixed part of the complete matroska project, not just an app that will output MKV files, like many others. As such, it HAS to be opensource, as a nobody will understadn that an opensource team is promoting a closed source app as main creation program. Our 'enemies', if we have such, would love to get such an argument from us, to use it against us. In short, if DVDtoMKV would not go opensource, we can list it as an app supporting MKV creation, but i wont push it as the official tool then. Sorry, but i am not willing to negotiate here. Of course, any other project admin can do whatever he likes in this respect, but then he will have to invest his time. 2. DVD, like so many other coders, is simply freightened to publish his code because he feels to be critized for his coding style, of which he is uncertain, thats all. Apart from that, there is no sensible reason not to go opensource with it. Even worse, if he went opensource with it, and if we made sure that new devs wanting to join the team are not treated like in other, similar projects, means there is one developer playing Mr. Big Boss, blocking new code best he can if its not coming from him, etc. , then DVDtoMKV could become an excellent program and opensource project. Furthermore, corecodec.org needs a tool such as DVDtoMKV, and opensource, as such a tool can lead a lot of attraction to the whole community. 3. DVDtoMKV, the offiicial MKV DVD backup tool, has to use mkvmerge for MKV creation, and nothing else. VdubMod, although being an excellent tool and a great basis for the usability of MKV ( pls. dont get me wrong here ), simply doesnt support enough of MKVs extraordinary features such as aspect ratio correction, SSA subs muxing, vobsub muxing, etc. More specifically, all features VdubMod supports in MKV are usable for OGM also, so we arent any better than it if it is used. @ DVD : stop sobbing around, go to corecodec.org and create a new project called DVDtoMKV there :P !!! There is no reason to be afraid about your coding style and such shit, just do it, and you will see that going opensource and hearing what other people do different than you, is the ONLY real possibility to learn a better coding style ! As long as your proggie is closed, it will give you more experience, but only more experience in using your very own coding style, you will never be able to open your horizon that way ! See the difference ?? As soon as DVD agrees to do that and to use mkvmerge ( he will :D ) and the project is created on corecodec.org, i will write a detailled feature list the program should be able to handle. Of course, not tomorrow, i meanwhile know how opensource stuff is wroking out .... you need to be very very patient ;-) ..... Christian From paul at msn.com Sat Nov 1 17:24:31 2003 From: paul at msn.com (Pamel) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 10:24:31 -0600 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: [Matroska-devel] DVDtoOGM with Matroskasupport References: <20031101135224.GL13719@bunkus.org> <3FA3C834.400@matroska.org> Message-ID: "Christian HJ Wiesner" wrote... 1. I was planning to make this program a fixed part of the complete matroska project, not just an app that will output MKV files, like many others. As such, it HAS to be opensource, as a nobody will understadn that an opensource team is promoting a closed source app as main creation program. Our 'enemies', if we have such, would love to get such an argument from us, to use it against us. In short, if DVDtoMKV would not go opensource, we can list it as an app supporting MKV creation, but i wont push it as the official tool then. Sorry, but i am not willing to negotiate here. Of course, any other project admin can do whatever he likes in this respect, but then he will have to invest his time. I don't really see this as an issue. Opensource projects work closely with closed source projects all the time. Even len0x is making his own closed source solution. I don't know about how much time should be invested in it from the Matroska team, but it doesn't sound like much would be needed. And it doesn't sound like he is going to close source any code from the Matroska team, so whats the problem? If he wants to make a DVDtoMKV we couldn't stop him because all of the tools are free anyway. 3. DVDtoMKV, the offiicial MKV DVD backup tool, has to use mkvmerge for MKV creation, and nothing else. VdubMod, although being an excellent tool and a great basis for the usability of MKV ( pls. dont get me wrong here ), simply doesnt support enough of MKVs extraordinary features such as aspect ratio correction, SSA subs muxing, vobsub muxing, etc. More specifically, all features VdubMod supports in MKV are usable for OGM also, so we arent any better than it if it is used. Unfortunately MKVMerge and VDMod don't overlap that much in purpose. VDMod does editing and encoding, MKVMerge does neither. So, using MKVMerge in place of VDMod is impossible. I can't encode anything. Pamel From chris at matroska.org Sat Nov 1 17:53:29 2003 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 17:53:29 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] DVDtoMKV : official feature list for the new founded DVD backup program Message-ID: <3FA3E509.50800@matroska.org> Hi all, first of all congrats to DVD for making the decision to go opensource with it, using a QPL license ! I am convinced this program becoming a corecodec.org project will be a win-win for everybody involved. A thread about this can be found here : http://corecodec.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&p=2418#2418 Comments welcome, i am dead tired and for sure was missing soemething substantial out ;) .... Christian From steve.lhomme at free.fr Wed Nov 5 17:27:45 2003 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 17:27:45 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] A/V Patents Message-ID: <3FA92501.5040707@free.fr> A "funny" story : http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/33782.html From moritz at bunkus.org Wed Nov 5 21:13:39 2003 From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 21:13:39 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] mkvtoolnix 0.7.5 released Message-ID: <20031105201338.GA28757@bunkus.org> Hi people, here it is, the newest Incarnation of Evil, uh, I meant mktoolnix release. A lot of bug fixes, a couple of new features. The most prominent new feature is probably... *drummroll* support for zlib compressed VobSubs. Yes, Gabest is working hard on supporting them in his demuxer, so they should become a reality for all of you very soon. The URL, as always: http://www.bunkus.org/videotools/mkvtoolnix/ and the Windows binaries: http://www.bunkus.org/videotools/mkvtoolnix/win32/mkvtoolnix-0.7.5.rar Here's the ChangeLog: -------------------------------- 2003-11-05 Moritz Bunkus * Released v0.7.5. * mkvmerge: bug fix: The VobSub .idx parser was dividing by 0 if a track only contained one entry. * mkvmerge: Fixed the timecode reader code and made it a bit more flexible. Added more documentation for this feature along with an example file (examples/example-timecodes.txt). * mmg: bug fix: When 'default track' is selected then all other tracks of the same type will have their 'default track' flag cleared. * mkvmerge: SPU packets belonging to the same timecode are grouped together, and the duration is extracted directly from the SPU stream. 2003-10-29 Moritz Bunkus * mkvmerge: The VobSubs are now stripped of the MPEG program stream, and only the SPU packets are kept. 2003-10-28 Moritz Bunkus * mkvmerge, mkvextract: The Matroska reader and the OGM reader (mkvmerge) as well as mkvextract will discard empty or 'cleaning only' subtitle packets as they are appear in OGMs in order to mark the end of an entry. 2003-10-27 Moritz Bunkus * mkvmerge: new feature: Added the ability to read timecodes from text files which override the timecodes mkvmerge calculates normally. 2003-10-26 Moritz Bunkus * mkvextract: bug fix: Add all the mandatory elements when extracting chapters so that the resulting XML can always be used directly with mkvmerge again without having to manually add e.g. ChapterLanguage. * mkvmerge: bug fix; Handle audio tracks from Matroska files with the CodecID A_MS/ACM correctly. 2003-10-25 Moritz Bunkus * mkvmerge: Changes to use libmatroska's new lacing code. 2003-10-23 Moritz Bunkus * mkvmerge: bug fix: The VobSub .idx parser was mis-calculating the subtitle entry frame sizes. * mkvmerge: bug fix: The Vorbis packetizer was miscalculating the number of samples to add/remove when using audio sync. 2003-10-22 Moritz Bunkus * mmg: new feature: Added a new menu entry "File -> new" which will clear all the current muxing settings. * mmg: Added support for VobSub subtitles including their compression options. Added the .m4a extension to the 'add file' dialog. * mmg: bug fix: Made the input boxes for file names (tags and chapters) editable so that their contents can be deleted. * mkvmerge: Adjusted the compression handling to the final content encoding specs. 2003-10-19 Moritz Bunkus * mkvmerge: new feature: Implemented generic support for frame compression (mostly useful for VobSub subtitles but could also be used for others) and the complete framework for handling content encodings in the Matroska reader. 2003-10-18 Moritz Bunkus * mkvinfo: new feature: Dump unknown elements recursively. 2003-10-15 Moritz Bunkus * mkvmerge: bug fix: Made the SRT reader more tolerant regarding empty lines. ---------------------- Have fun! :) -- ==> Ciao, Mosu (Moritz Bunkus) From steve.lhomme at free.fr Wed Nov 5 21:28:25 2003 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 21:28:25 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] Logo work Message-ID: <3FA95D69.3060104@free.fr> I have worked on the doll variation that seemed to be the most popular. You can view/download it on http://matroska.free.fr/logo/ I did it with Fireworks and then imported it in Flash. So that it can be resized well with keeping the vector quality (almost). Feel free to improve it or use it. From yklis at kaliasys.com Fri Nov 7 15:27:10 2003 From: yklis at kaliasys.com (Yann Klis) Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 15:27:10 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] Streaming ? Message-ID: <1068215230.7828.22.camel@localhost> Hi all ! On http://www.matroska.org it is written that matroska is designed to be streamable. How can I encode a file that will be streamable ? Is it supported on the windows platform ? Thx in advance, ++ yk From paul at msn.com Fri Nov 7 17:09:59 2003 From: paul at msn.com (Pamel) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 10:09:59 -0600 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: Streaming ? References: <1068215230.7828.22.camel@localhost> Message-ID: "Yann Klis" wrote... > On http://www.matroska.org it is written that matroska is designed to be > streamable. How can I encode a file that will be streamable ? Is it > supported on the windows platform ? It wasn't really designed to be streamable, its just that afterwards it was realized that it was streamable. Unfortunately at this time there isn't anything that can stream it. If someone developed an HTTP source Matroska filter, then you could stream it quite easily. Pamel From chris at matroska.org Tue Nov 11 14:34:07 2003 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:34:07 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] New 'big' release ? Message-ID: <3FB0E54F.6030200@matroska.org> Hi, what do you all think about a new 'big' release ? Here is what we have right now : - vobsub in mkv, muxing with mkvmerge, playback on DShow, in mplayer and VLC - compressed vobsub in mkv, muxing, playback - new EBML lacing sheme - AviMux-GUI with MKV support - FLAC in MKA ( in MS/ACM mode with huge overhead because no lacing is used ) - matroska stream editor, for VFR appending - VFR muxing into MKV ( mkvmerge with timestamp file ) Did i forget anything ? Are these new features worth a new big release ? What else could we add in a reasonable time ? TCMP RC5 ? MPEG1 in MKV ? MPEG2 in MKV ? Tell me your opinion guys. Christian From steve.lhomme at free.fr Tue Nov 11 15:13:09 2003 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:13:09 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] New 'big' release ? In-Reply-To: <3FB0E54F.6030200@matroska.org> References: <3FB0E54F.6030200@matroska.org> Message-ID: <3FB0EE75.2060001@free.fr> Christian HJ Wiesner wrote: > > Hi, > > what do you all think about a new 'big' release ? What do you call a big release ? > Here is what we have right now : > > - vobsub in mkv, muxing with mkvmerge, playback on DShow, in mplayer and > VLC > - compressed vobsub in mkv, muxing, playback > - new EBML lacing sheme > - AviMux-GUI with MKV support > - FLAC in MKA ( in MS/ACM mode with huge overhead because no lacing is > used ) I think we should wait until we have something better. Either better FLAC or better MonkeyAudio. > - matroska stream editor, for VFR appending > - VFR muxing into MKV ( mkvmerge with timestamp file ) From moritz at bunkus.org Thu Nov 13 14:45:48 2003 From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:45:48 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] New 'big' release ? In-Reply-To: <3FB0E54F.6030200@matroska.org> References: <3FB0E54F.6030200@matroska.org> Message-ID: <20031113134548.GX2058@bunkus.org> Hi, > what do you all think about a new 'big' release ? Release now, implement new things later. > - vobsub in mkv, muxing with mkvmerge, playback on DShow, in mplayer and VLC > - compressed vobsub in mkv, muxing, playback > - new EBML lacing sheme > - AviMux-GUI with MKV support > - FLAC in MKA ( in MS/ACM mode with huge overhead because no lacing is > used ) > - matroska stream editor, for VFR appending > - VFR muxing into MKV ( mkvmerge with timestamp file ) > > Did i forget anything ? Are these new features worth a new big release > - ? Definitely. Like they said on IRC: We're close to christmas, and a lot of folks will be busy finding some suitable present for their significant other and with general christmas stuff. So we should release SOON. > What else could we add in a reasonable time ? > > TCMP RC5 ? > MPEG1 in MKV ? > MPEG2 in MKV ? Definitely not the latter two. The things I personally could add in reasonable time are pretty down to... nothing. Not even proper FLAC support, I'm afraid. So don't wait for the Evil World Domination Feature being implemented ;) Prepare a release now! Such a release needs some time and effort to prepare, so we shouldn't waste any more time. -- ==> Ciao, Mosu (Moritz Bunkus) From renekoch at e-divx.at Fri Nov 14 09:56:00 2003 From: renekoch at e-divx.at (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9_Koch?=) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:56:00 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] New 'big' release ? References: <3FB0E54F.6030200@matroska.org> Message-ID: <003101c3aa8d$207ba2b0$5ef698d4@scratpc> > Hi, > > what do you all think about a new 'big' release ? > Did i forget anything ? Are these new features worth a new big release ? This are really great facts but for a 'big' release in my opionion there are 2 things missing: - Menu - USF-Subtitles I think these are very very important for a big release because a 'normal' user wants somethings in a big release which is important for him. And there are many users who just want a menu and not e.g. vobsub in matroska because they don't know what vobsub is... So I would say it should be a 'big' release for everyone and not just for matroska fans like us... > What else could we add in a reasonable time ? What's with VirtualDub Mod? If there will be a new version it should also be in the release... greetings, scrat > _______________________________________________ > Matroska-general mailing list > Matroska-general at lists.matroska.org > http://lists.matroska.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/matroska-general > From moritz at bunkus.org Fri Nov 14 10:07:02 2003 From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:07:02 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] New 'big' release ? In-Reply-To: <003101c3aa8d$207ba2b0$5ef698d4@scratpc> References: <3FB0E54F.6030200@matroska.org> <003101c3aa8d$207ba2b0$5ef698d4@scratpc> Message-ID: <20031114090702.GB2058@bunkus.org> Hi, > This are really great facts but for a 'big' release in my opionion there are > 2 things missing: > - Menu > - USF-Subtitles I disagree. Those two are valid for a NEXT BIG release. But so far I think we have only had two big releases - the very first one around May and the one for August 1st due to articles in a big German computer magazine. Since then a lot of stuff has changed, tools have become better, and we have gotten better than our main competition, Ogm, in each and every aspect now that we have chapters / language tags / whateverwasstillmissing. This DOES warrant a new release. It has been over three months now - and if we wait until menus or at least USF subs are done then we'll wait another three if not more. If we release at Dec 1st then that would be a good thing, IMHO. Four months between big releases is good. Also we're not saying 'hey, Matroska is done now'. That should be left for when menus and stuff like that has been implemented. The libs are not at v1.0, neither is my mkvtoolnix package. So I think we can really say 'hey, this is not everything but we've reached a milestone now'. > What's with VirtualDub Mod? If there will be a new version it should also be > in the release... Of course. That goes without saying. -- ==> Ciao, Mosu (Moritz Bunkus) From renekoch at e-divx.at Fri Nov 14 10:24:03 2003 From: renekoch at e-divx.at (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9_Koch?=) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:24:03 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] New 'big' release ? References: <3FB0E54F.6030200@matroska.org><003101c3aa8d$207ba2b0$5ef698d4@scratpc> <20031114090702.GB2058@bunkus.org> Message-ID: <004301c3aa91$0b977140$5ef698d4@scratpc> hey! > This DOES warrant a new release. It has been over three months now - and > if we wait until menus or at least USF subs are done then we'll wait > another three if not more. If we release at Dec 1st then that would be a > good thing, IMHO. Four months between big releases is good. OK, you're right. It's good if there is a big release now. I just thought that e.g. menus could be done in one month or so and this would be a time we can wait. Of course I know that it's a lot of work to implement menus or usf-subs. What's with MPEG2-support as ChristianHJW wrote? Is it possible to implement this until December 1st (or what ever the date for the release is...). An other program for the release could be DVDtoOGM Matroska Edition. ChristianHJW started a thread with features he wants in this program. But maybe it's too early to include this program in this release. In the next one it should be integrated... greetings, scrat From chris at matroska.org Fri Nov 14 10:52:43 2003 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:52:43 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] New 'big' release ? In-Reply-To: <003101c3aa8d$207ba2b0$5ef698d4@scratpc> References: <3FB0E54F.6030200@matroska.org> <003101c3aa8d$207ba2b0$5ef698d4@scratpc> Message-ID: <3FB4A5EB.6090401@matroska.org> Ren? Koch wrote: > This are really great facts but for a 'big' release in my opionion > there are > >2 things missing: >- Menu >- USF-Subtitles > > See, guys ?!?! The time is there for a USF muxer ! Its a pitty the guy who was interested to join us for that didnt reply at all to me anymore :( ...... like so many times before already ... :sigh: .... Still, i am of the opinion if we do it, we should do it right, means using EBML muxing. Of course, i cant do the work, so this is all up to you devs. Christian From moritz at bunkus.org Fri Nov 14 11:17:14 2003 From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:17:14 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] New 'big' release ? In-Reply-To: <3FB4A5EB.6090401@matroska.org> References: <3FB0E54F.6030200@matroska.org> <003101c3aa8d$207ba2b0$5ef698d4@scratpc> <3FB4A5EB.6090401@matroska.org> Message-ID: <20031114101714.GC2058@bunkus.org> Hi, > Still, i am of the opinion if we do it, we should do it right, means > using EBML muxing. Of course, i cant do the work, so this is all up to > you devs. I agree. That's why we won't have it working this year anymore. (Same for menus, they won't be ready this year.) -- ==> Ciao, Mosu (Moritz Bunkus) From chris at matroska.org Fri Nov 14 10:49:02 2003 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:49:02 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] New 'big' release ? In-Reply-To: <3FB0EE75.2060001@free.fr> References: <3FB0E54F.6030200@matroska.org> <3FB0EE75.2060001@free.fr> Message-ID: <3FB4A50E.9030401@matroska.org> Steve Lhomme wrote: > Christian HJ Wiesner wrote: > >> Hi, what do you all think about a new 'big' release ? > > What do you call a big release ? A big release is what we had been doing in May, for the public launch, and the CHIP/Liisachan release where a lot of new features, like chapters, SSA subs, etc, were introduced. >> Here is what we have right now : >> - vobsub in mkv, muxing with mkvmerge, playback on DShow, in mplayer >> and VLC >> - compressed vobsub in mkv, muxing, playback >> - new EBML lacing sheme >> - AviMux-GUI with MKV support >> - FLAC in MKA ( in MS/ACM mode with huge overhead because no lacing >> is used ) > > I think we should wait until we have something better. Either better > FLAC or better MonkeyAudio. After talking to jcsston about this, i am not sure if there is a better way to implement FLAC than what he has done now. If i understand this correctly, there is still no proper way to understand where the frame boundaries of FLAC are, as the internal FLAC API does not allow the encoder to indicate a new frame/block . As a result this would mean we had to use FLAC in ACM compatibility mode, same way as we are foing now with his DirectShow encoder filter. Maybe we should concentrate on Wavpack4 instead ? I contacted David Bryant, the Wavpack4 author, asking him about the sourcecode that some of you guys were requesting from me. Question @ Mosu, Jcsston : If we assume that David has made his API different than Josh and easier to use for us, is there any chance of getting it implemented until, say, middle of December ? @ jcsston : proper lossless support in matroska REQUIRES also editing in VirtualdubMod, because i see the main use for this feature in video editing, besides our plans for 'MusicCD-in-a-MKA-file' . I know you have invested a lot of time in doing that with FLAC, and then recognized its hard or impossible to do. Jory, based on your experiences with hacking FLAC support into VdubMod, would you be prepared to do the same thing for Wavpack4 also ?? If we had this feature working, we could think about a new, BIG release with all the usual noise and quirks like last time, as this would truely justify this step in the eyes of the users. And i guess David will also be ready for a public launch of Wavpack4, including sources, until then. What you think ? Christian From moritz at bunkus.org Fri Nov 14 11:56:41 2003 From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:56:41 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] New 'big' release ? In-Reply-To: <3FB4A50E.9030401@matroska.org> References: <3FB0E54F.6030200@matroska.org> <3FB0EE75.2060001@free.fr> <3FB4A50E.9030401@matroska.org> Message-ID: <20031114105641.GD2058@bunkus.org> Hi, depending on the API wavpack uses it can be done by mid December or not. But I'm against waiting for it. We need a release now. Before the end of the year. We don't necessarily have to say 'look at all these new features!'. More important is having some milestone release in which we have new codec packs, a list of apps supporting all those features at THIS VERY POINT in time. What I want is being able to say "the December release features VobSub subs, look at our home page". This is far better than saying 'please goto sf.net/guliverkli/ download at least 1.0.1.9 of Gabest's splitter, search for TCMP 1.2.3.4 pre4 RC5' etc.pp. If we wait for wavpack and finish this stuff around Dec 15th then we'll be far too busy with Christmas stuff in order to make a proper release. Such a release needs time, time and effort. Time we won't have around Christmas! So it's either we do with what we have for Dec 1st or we wait until 2004. -- ==> Ciao, Mosu (Moritz Bunkus) From paul at msn.com Fri Nov 14 16:35:26 2003 From: paul at msn.com (Pamel) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:35:26 -0600 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: New 'big' release ? References: <3FB0E54F.6030200@matroska.org><003101c3aa8d$207ba2b0$5ef698d4@scratpc><20031114090702.GB2058@bunkus.org> <004301c3aa91$0b977140$5ef698d4@scratpc> Message-ID: "Ren? Koch" wrote in message... > I just thought that e.g. menus could be done in one month or so and this > would be a time we can wait. Of course I know that it's a lot of work to > implement menus or usf-subs. Yes, it would be lots and lots of work to implement menus. Besides deciding on, making, and coding a spec, you would need something to play it back. Currently the best choice would probably be the MP4 menus, but there is no directshow filter for those so it excludes the largest user base which is directshow users/players. Two months would be much to short to deal with all of these things. > What's with MPEG2-support as ChristianHJW wrote? Is it possible to implement > this until December 1st (or what ever the date for the release is...). The problem with MPEG-2 support is that there are several MPEG-2 containers, and all of them are a pain. Also, all of the DirectShow MPEG-2 decoders are pretty picky. With Gabest's help this could probably be done pretty quickly, but there currently isn't anyone with enough knowledge/time. Mosu could also probably get this done pretty quickly, but he doesn't have the time either. > An other program for the release could be DVDtoOGM Matroska Edition. > ChristianHJW started a thread with features he wants in this program. But > maybe it's too early to include this program in this release. In the next > one it should be integrated... The developer for that program needs to say how ready he is. Pamel From ploum at mitose.net Fri Nov 14 17:10:01 2003 From: ploum at mitose.net (Ploum) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 17:10:01 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] is matroska ready for everyday use ? Message-ID: <3FB4FE59.1010808@mitose.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, I make some little movie ( see frimouvy.udev.org ) and I want to put them on the web. Today, they are in avi,divx5,mp3 but I want to use free software. Do you think that matroska is ready from everyday use and that I can put matroska file on my website ? (with libavc and ogg, of course ;-) ) More, I know a lot of people who also make movies. So I think that it would be cool to have the same way to encode our movies (no more wma, divx, avi, real, etc..). I was thinking about a multi-platform software who can encode any movie with libavc (or xvid ? which is the best ?), ogg vorbis in a matroska file. This will be only for beginners, with only one simple option for the quality : 1) QuickyBun - low size file, for quick downloading 2) MegaBun - normal file, for quality download 3) IronDick - huge file. must only fit on a CD. The purpose of such application is only to promote the use of matroska/libavc/ogg for people who don't want to look for options and want to only click on a button. I will not speak about all the project (I have a lot of ideas). Please see the webpage if you speak french or ask me if you are intersted : http://frimouvy.udev.org/wiki/wakka.php?wiki=FormatVideastesAmateurs Ploum -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/tP5ZMvYGdShAWjgRAr3bAJ9L8cSHey5erIRDcHhcRGFNfVcc7gCfZnKn ekWa35jZiLkm2OPa2mZnc8c= =6vnJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jcsston at wiesneronline.net Fri Nov 14 20:59:29 2003 From: jcsston at wiesneronline.net (Jory) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:59:29 -0600 Subject: [Matroska-general] New 'big' release ? References: <3FB0E54F.6030200@matroska.org> <3FB0EE75.2060001@free.fr> <000701c3aae5$c08d1510$0200a8c0@jcsston> Message-ID: <000c01c3aaea$7ff35af0$0200a8c0@jcsston> ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: [Matroska-general] New 'big' release ? > Steve Lhomme wrote: > > > Christian HJ Wiesner wrote: > > > >> Hi, what do you all think about a new 'big' release ? > > > > What do you call a big release ? > > A big release is what we had been doing in May, for the public launch, > and the CHIP/Liisachan release where a lot of new features, like > chapters, SSA subs, etc, were introduced. > > >> Here is what we have right now : > >> - vobsub in mkv, muxing with mkvmerge, playback on DShow, in mplayer > >> and VLC > >> - compressed vobsub in mkv, muxing, playback > >> - new EBML lacing sheme > >> - AviMux-GUI with MKV support > >> - FLAC in MKA ( in MS/ACM mode with huge overhead because no lacing > >> is used ) > > > > I think we should wait until we have something better. Either better > > FLAC or better MonkeyAudio. > > > After talking to jcsston about this, i am not sure if there is a better > way to implement FLAC than what he has done now. If i understand this > correctly, there is still no proper way to understand where the frame > boundaries of FLAC are, as the internal FLAC API does not allow the > encoder to indicate a new frame/block . As a result this would mean we > had to use FLAC in ACM compatibility mode, same way as we are foing now > with his DirectShow encoder filter. The encoder API docs say that the encoder doesn't provide one frame at a time, However in my tests it does and I use this to split at frame boundaries in the DShow FLAC encoder filter. The problem I had with finding the frame boundaries was with existing .flac files. Mosu has found that ogg-in-flac does solve this problem. > > Maybe we should concentrate on Wavpack4 instead ? I contacted David > Bryant, the Wavpack4 author, asking him about the sourcecode that some > of you guys were requesting from me. > > Question @ Mosu, Jcsston : > > If we assume that David has made his API different than Josh and easier > to use for us, is there any chance of getting it implemented until, say, > middle of December ? Considering that it took me 2 weeks to get the DShow FLAC Encoder filter working. Building from that I prehaps could have a working WavPack DShow filter in 2 weeks. ;) > > @ jcsston : proper lossless support in matroska REQUIRES also editing in > VirtualdubMod, because i see the main use for this feature in video > editing, besides our plans for 'MusicCD-in-a-MKA-file' . I know you have > invested a lot of time in doing that with FLAC, and then recognized its > hard or impossible to do. Jory, based on your experiences with hacking > FLAC support into VdubMod, would you be prepared to do the same thing > for Wavpack4 also ?? > If Wavpack4 uses a constant number of samples per frame, like FLAC and VBR MP3, it shouldn't be any problem to edit in VDubMOD. Jory From steve.lhomme at free.fr Sun Nov 16 10:49:31 2003 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 10:49:31 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] is matroska ready for everyday use ? In-Reply-To: <3FB4FE59.1010808@mitose.net> References: <3FB4FE59.1010808@mitose.net> Message-ID: <3FB7482B.9010109@free.fr> Ploum wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi, > > I make some little movie ( see frimouvy.udev.org ) and I want to put > them on the web. > Today, they are in avi,divx5,mp3 but I want to use free software. > > Do you think that matroska is ready from everyday use and that I can put > matroska file on my website ? (with libavc and ogg, of course ;-) ) Yes. The format is stable now. We only add some things here and there once in a while to improve it. But all old files should play in new players. We always ensure backward compatibility. So if you make files now, you should always be able to use/play them in the future. > More, I know a lot of people who also make movies. So I think that it > would be cool to have the same way to encode our movies (no more wma, > divx, avi, real, etc..). > > I was thinking about a multi-platform software who can encode any movie > with libavc (or xvid ? which is the best ?), ogg vorbis in a matroska file. > > This will be only for beginners, with only one simple option for the > quality : > 1) QuickyBun - low size file, for quick downloading > 2) MegaBun - normal file, for quality download > 3) IronDick - huge file. must only fit on a CD. This is somehow a kind of GordianKnot (or any other software like this). The problem here is the maulti-platform request. Unless you make it with wxWindows, you'll have problems to have the same GUI on all OS. Otherwise it is possible. It's just assembling existing code into a simple software. > The purpose of such application is only to promote the use of > matroska/libavc/ogg for people who don't want to look for options and > want to only click on a button. Yes. Even myself I would have good use of such a basic tool. Right now I use a combination or GordianKnot + VDM + MMG. From steve.lhomme at free.fr Sun Nov 16 11:02:07 2003 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 11:02:07 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] New 'big' release ? In-Reply-To: <20031114090702.GB2058@bunkus.org> References: <3FB0E54F.6030200@matroska.org> <003101c3aa8d$207ba2b0$5ef698d4@scratpc> <20031114090702.GB2058@bunkus.org> Message-ID: <3FB74B1F.1040904@free.fr> Moritz Bunkus wrote: > Also we're not saying 'hey, Matroska is done now'. That should be left > for when menus and stuff like that has been implemented. The libs are > not at v1.0, neither is my mkvtoolnix package. So I think we can really > say 'hey, this is not everything but we've reached a milestone now'. I agree. We are still far from all we can offer with v1.0. If you check the specs, it says : * Round 1: first complete draft of the specs * Round 2: start the alpha development of libmatroska and update the specs when needed * Round 3: start the beta development of libmatroska, the specs are frozen (no changes possible, only additions) * Round 4: libmatroska becomes final (1.0.0) and the format too (version 1) And we are only at Round 2 (this doesn't include the always growing codec IDs/formats). What we need to go to round 3 : - complex tracks support (DV) - control-track - menus What will not be in v1.0 : - DRM From paul at msn.com Sun Nov 16 18:04:51 2003 From: paul at msn.com (Pamel) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 11:04:51 -0600 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: New 'big' release ? References: <3FB0E54F.6030200@matroska.org> <003101c3aa8d$207ba2b0$5ef698d4@scratpc><20031114090702.GB2058@bunkus.org> <3FB74B1F.1040904@free.fr> Message-ID: "Steve Lhomme" wrote... > What we need to go to round 3 : > - complex tracks support (DV) > - control-track > - menus What are complex tracks? I think that most of the control-track/menus could be defined outside of the Matroska spec allowing for a faster move to round 3. > What will not be in v1.0 : > - DRM I think that proper DRM should include encryption as has already been shown by Jory's DirectShow filter. If that is the case, then it is basically already defined. Implementing it would be a whole different concern that really isn't needed from the Matroska team. I really doubt that anyone on the team wants to set up a permanent DRM server, but it would be nice to provide an example. Pamel From ploum at mitose.net Sun Nov 16 18:20:17 2003 From: ploum at mitose.net (Ploum) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 18:20:17 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] is matroska ready for everyday use ? In-Reply-To: <3FB7482B.9010109@free.fr> References: <3FB4FE59.1010808@mitose.net> <3FB7482B.9010109@free.fr> Message-ID: <3FB7B1D1.2060502@mitose.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 |> |> This will be only for beginners, with only one simple option for the |> quality : |> 1) QuickyBun - low size file, for quick downloading |> 2) MegaBun - normal file, for quality download |> 3) IronDick - huge file. must only fit on a CD. | | | This is somehow a kind of GordianKnot (or any other software like this). | The problem here is the maulti-platform request. Unless you make it with | wxWindows, you'll have problems to have the same GUI on all OS. | Otherwise it is possible. It's just assembling existing code into a | simple software. Yes, I was thinking about wxWindows. It's not very difficult but I'm not an experienced programmer. I need advice for : - - which encoding software must I use (to be cross-platform)? - - which parameters are the best in most case ? - - which video codec must I use ? (libavc or xvid ?) | |> The purpose of such application is only to promote the use of |> matroska/libavc/ogg for people who don't want to look for options and |> want to only click on a button. | | | Yes. Even myself I would have good use of such a basic tool. Right now I | use a combination or GordianKnot + VDM + MMG. | | I only know mmg, I will look for the two other software. (but they are not on debian :( ) Ploum -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/t7HRMvYGdShAWjgRAmyxAJ47t6PTL3Z6w69N7mvxbnEezavy7QCeOtwk dJgZ4aQOB6zz3GcpKB/0Tn8= =dmsN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From steve.lhomme at free.fr Sun Nov 16 19:02:26 2003 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 19:02:26 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: New 'big' release ? In-Reply-To: References: <3FB0E54F.6030200@matroska.org> <003101c3aa8d$207ba2b0$5ef698d4@scratpc><20031114090702.GB2058@bunkus.org> <3FB74B1F.1040904@free.fr> Message-ID: <3FB7BBB2.9070204@free.fr> Pamel wrote: > "Steve Lhomme" wrote... > >>What we need to go to round 3 : >>- complex tracks support (DV) >>- control-track >>- menus > > > What are complex tracks? A track that contain both audio and video in the same frame. > I think that most of the control-track/menus could be defined outside of the > Matroska spec allowing for a faster move to round 3. > > >>What will not be in v1.0 : >>- DRM > > > I think that proper DRM should include encryption as has already been shown by > Jory's DirectShow filter. If that is the case, then it is basically already > defined. Implementing it would be a whole different concern that really isn't > needed from the Matroska team. I really doubt that anyone on the team wants to > set up a permanent DRM server, but it would be nice to provide an example. For both Menu and DRM we need to make sure lots of possibilities can be done with the format. So we don't have to change it later. Jory's encoding system is independant of the container so doesn't go in that category. But maybe a good DRM would need to be integrated in the container. I don't know. From moritz at bunkus.org Sun Nov 16 22:01:08 2003 From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 22:01:08 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] mkvtoolnix 0-.7.7 released Message-ID: <20031116210108.GV2058@bunkus.org> Heya, another release of mkvtoolnix is here. This version (0.7.7) features a couple of bug fixes and two new features - support for reading CUE sheets as chapters and full support for FLAC audio. Note that Gabest's and Toff's filters (MatroskaSplitter, CoreFLAC) will have to be adjusted, but I hope that'll be done soon. The links: http://www.bunkus.org/videotools/mkvtoolnix/ http://www.bunkus.org/videotools/mkvtoolnix/win32/mkvtoolnix-0.7.5.rar Here's the ChangeLog: ----------------------- 2003-11-16 Moritz Bunkus * Released v0.7.7. * mkvextract: Added extraction of FLAC to raw FLAC or OggFLAC files. * mkvmerge: Added full support for FLAC (both raw FLAC and OggFLAC are supported, even though raw FLAC is very slow). 2003-11-15 Moritz Bunkus * mmg: Added an input field for the 'CUE sheet to chapter name' conversion format. * mkvmerge: bug fix: Reworked the audio sychronization which did not work correctly for Matroska source files. 2003-11-13 Moritz Bunkus * mkvmerge: bug fix: Increased the size of the space reserved for the first meta seek element (see mkvmerge.1 for an explanation). In some situations (with tags, chapters, attachements and very big file) it might not have been enough in order to contain all elements. 2003-11-12 Moritz Bunkus * mmg: Added an input field for the 'timecodes' file to the track options. * mkvmerge: bug fix: When reading MP3 audio tracks from a Matroska file with the A_MS/ACM CodecID (MS compatibility mode) the layer was not identified correctly. * mkvmerge: Improved the file type detection for AC3 and AAC files a bit. * mkvmerge: Implemented a lot of fixes for big endian systems and processors that don't allow non-aligned memory access for word or bigger sized objects. * mmg: Made mmg accept return codes of 1 when 'mkvmerge -i' is run when an input file is added. This way mmg won't reject mkvmerge's output if mkvmerge only printed some warnings which will result in a return code of 1 instead of 0. * mkvmerge: bug fix: If running in identification mode (-i, used by mmg a lot) then don't output any warnings or mmg will not accept this file. 2003-11-10 Moritz Bunkus * mkvmerge: new feature: CUE sheets can be used for chapters. 2003-11-09 Moritz Bunkus * mkvmerge: Added support for --sync for VobSub tracks. * mkvtoolnix: Re-worked the configure script. Removed all the lib specific --with-...-include and --with-...-lib options. The --with-extra-includes and --with-extra-libs options can be used instead. 2003-11-08 Moritz Bunkus * mmg: When a file is being added then some information from it (languages, track names, file title) are kept, and the appropriate input boxes are pre-set with these values. Works only for formats that support such information (Matroska, VobSub). * mkvmerge: Sped up the reading of VobSub .idx files. ----------------- Have fun! -- ==> Ciao, Mosu (Moritz Bunkus) From moritz at bunkus.org Sun Nov 16 22:07:38 2003 From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 22:07:38 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] mkvtoolnix 0-.7.7 released In-Reply-To: <20031116210108.GV2058@bunkus.org> References: <20031116210108.GV2058@bunkus.org> Message-ID: <20031116210738.GW2058@bunkus.org> Hi, > http://www.bunkus.org/videotools/mkvtoolnix/win32/mkvtoolnix-0.7.5.rar This is obviously wrong ;) It should read: http://www.bunkus.org/videotools/mkvtoolnix/win32/mkvtoolnix-0.7.7.rar -- ==> Ciao, Mosu (Moritz Bunkus) From asmodeuss at tlen.pl Tue Nov 18 11:08:30 2003 From: asmodeuss at tlen.pl (Asmodeus =)) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:08:30 Subject: [Matroska-general] libiconv? Message-ID: <20031118100830.0B52333F62@rekin.go2.pl> Hello. Subject is my problem. I've try to merge avi and mp4 into mkv with mkvmergr, and it require a libiconv.dll. I have downloadet mkvtoolnix from youre page, and it do not contain this file. Also i cannot find it on youre page. Sorry if I'm bother, buth i need this library ;) Thx. From christophe.paris at free.fr Tue Nov 18 11:46:44 2003 From: christophe.paris at free.fr (Christophe PARIS) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:46:44 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] libiconv? In-Reply-To: <20031118100830.0B52333F62@rekin.go2.pl> References: <20031118100830.0B52333F62@rekin.go2.pl> Message-ID: <3FB9F894.3030700@free.fr> Asmodeus =) wrote: >Hello. >Subject is my problem. I've try to merge avi and mp4 into >mkv with mkvmergr, and it require a libiconv.dll. I have >downloadet mkvtoolnix from youre page, and it do not >contain this file. Also i cannot find it on youre page. >Sorry if I'm bother, buth i need this library ;) >Thx. > It's easy :) On mkvtoolnix page, read the paragraph (3.1.2) about windows more carefully. There is a link to download mkvtoolnix runtime dll. From frerdman at uni-osnabrueck.de Tue Nov 18 22:55:16 2003 From: frerdman at uni-osnabrueck.de (Frank Erdmann) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:55:16 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] Aspect Ratio Message-ID: Hi! I've been playing around with the aspect ratio flag matroska supports. I resized a clip to 512x272 and set the aspect ratio flag to 16/9 in mkvmerge. I expected the movie to become resized to 576x272 but I go 512x272 => 512x286 which is 1,78:1. How can I tell mkvmerge to resize horrizontally to 16/9? I used MPlayer 1.0pre2 for playback..... Thanks a lot Frank From moritz at bunkus.org Tue Nov 18 23:07:56 2003 From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 23:07:56 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] Aspect Ratio In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031118220756.GF2058@bunkus.org> Hi, you can't do that with mkvmerge at the moment, and there's no other tool on Linux do to it. Maybe I'll add something like that to the next mkvmerge version. -- ==> Ciao, Mosu (Moritz Bunkus) From paul at msn.com Tue Nov 18 23:20:43 2003 From: paul at msn.com (Pamel) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 16:20:43 -0600 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: Aspect Ratio References: Message-ID: "Frank Erdmann" wrote... > I resized a clip to 512x272 and set the aspect ratio flag to 16/9 in > mkvmerge. I expected the movie to become resized to 576x272 but I go > 512x272 => 512x286 which is 1,78:1. Most people prefer an image that is resized horizontaly. So if you original is 512x304, then you would set the AR res to 540x304 to get 16:9. It would be strange, but I guess that you could have a disproportioned source where either the height needed to be increased or the width decreased. Pretty much all anamorphic sources though will need to have the width increased. Pamel From ploum at mitose.net Wed Nov 19 00:30:13 2003 From: ploum at mitose.net (Ploum) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 00:30:13 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] Aspect Ratio In-Reply-To: <20031118220756.GF2058@bunkus.org> References: <20031118220756.GF2058@bunkus.org> Message-ID: <3FBAAB85.7000902@mitose.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Moritz Bunkus wrote: | Hi, | | you can't do that with mkvmerge at the moment, and there's no other tool | on Linux do to it. Maybe I'll add something like that to the next | mkvmerge version. | Can't mencoder do that ? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/uquFMvYGdShAWjgRAsEoAJ92coCIlWG/HG8E7+NcGiC5ClvuRACfYyVA b09rxGAl7L6O2xn+ld82nqQ= =2NWw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From frerdman at uni-osnabrueck.de Wed Nov 19 08:24:47 2003 From: frerdman at uni-osnabrueck.de (Frank Erdmann) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:24:47 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: Aspect Ratio References: <20031118220756.GF2058@bunkus.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 23:07:56 +0100, Moritz Bunkus wrote: > Hi, > > you can't do that with mkvmerge at the moment, and there's no other tool > on Linux do to it. Maybe I'll add something like that to the next > mkvmerge version. > I'm not restricted to Linux. What's the way to do this on windows? Thanks Frank From moritz at bunkus.org Wed Nov 19 09:11:32 2003 From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 09:11:32 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: Aspect Ratio In-Reply-To: References: <20031118220756.GF2058@bunkus.org> Message-ID: <20031119081132.GH2058@bunkus.org> Hi, > I'm not restricted to Linux. What's the way to do this on windows? I think you can do it with the shell extension - but I'm not sure ;) -- ==> Ciao, Mosu (Moritz Bunkus) From moritz at bunkus.org Wed Nov 19 09:12:25 2003 From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 09:12:25 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] Aspect Ratio In-Reply-To: <3FBAAB85.7000902@mitose.net> References: <20031118220756.GF2058@bunkus.org> <3FBAAB85.7000902@mitose.net> Message-ID: <20031119081225.GI2058@bunkus.org> Hi, > Can't mencoder do that ? Not really. It can set the aspect ratio in the MPEG4 bitstream. But 1) only a couple of players support this and 2) players should use the AR provided by the container. -- ==> Ciao, Mosu (Moritz Bunkus) From chris at matroska.org Thu Nov 20 22:50:43 2003 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 22:50:43 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: your software on our CD In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FBD3733.6020901@matroska.org> Anja Smeilus wrote: >URGENT PRESS-REQUEST-- >GERMAN TRANSLATION FOLLOWS >DEUTSCHE UEBERSETZUNG FOLGT >---------------------------------------------- > >Dear Madam or Sir, > >PC-WELT would like to put the free-/ shareware-/ demo- or trial-version of > >Virtual Dub 1.5.9 (stable) & Virtual Dub Mod 1.5.4.1 > >on CD. It will be distributed with the next possible issue of PC- >WELT. If you agree and if the software is free of any third party's >rights please confirm this by sending us a short e-mail to: >agree at pcwelt.de > Hi Anja, we herewith give allowance to distribute VirtualdubMod with your CDs. Please note that - there will be a new release soon, implementing most of the features of Virtualdub 1.5.9 in VirtualdubMod, plus a lot of bug fixes. If you can tell us when you need the binaries for implementation into the CD, we can tell you if the release will be before that date. or even send you a pre-release binary. - VirtualdubMod does support to create not only AVI files like Virtualdub, but also can export into the new, opensource container standard 'matroska' . As a standard Windows installation doesnt come with the right playback filters for this new, powerful container format, we recommend to include the matroska 'full' pack from http://packs.matroska.org into your CD also, so people can playback matroska movies they made with VirtualdubMod. I am project administrator for the matroska project also, and thus can give you allowance for that as well. Looking forward to hearing from you about the release date Christian Wiesner matroska and VirtualdubMod project administrator P.S. Gr?sse aus Bayern ;-) ... From chris at matroska.org Thu Nov 27 00:06:18 2003 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 00:06:18 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] MXF site Message-ID: <3FC531EA.1050002@matroska.org> http://www.pro-mpeg.org/mxf/index.html But i havent found a .MXF file on emule still ;) .... From chris at matroska.org Thu Nov 27 05:32:00 2003 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 05:32:00 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: XML ---> EBML ( binary XML ) ---> XML lib in C, for starters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FC57E40.7050406@matroska.org> Deep Singh wrote: >Hi, > >I'm an experience java/xml developer would like to help in the >project. Please let me know how could I participate. > >Rgds > >Deep Singh >user_id - 838603 >user_name - deepkr > > Hi, and welcome ! can you program in C also ? Christian matroska project admin From chris at matroska.org Sat Nov 29 11:53:10 2003 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 11:53:10 +0100 Subject: [Matroska-general] matroska on p2p Message-ID: <3FC87A96.3010003@matroska.org> http://jigle.com/search?p=&t=0&x=mkv&sl=1&su=&ma=3&l=10&a=0 Now, the interesting part here is, sort them for availability ! Nr. 1 : LOTR2, the 2 tours, RV9 560 x 316 ( anamorphic ! ) ; availability : 1501 !! Nr. 2 : X-Men2 : RV9 , english, french ; availability : 821 Nr. 3 : la cite de dieu ; availability : 794 etc ..... Seems like matroska has really found a very 'special' user circle, and mainly using the RV9 codec ;) .... Christian