From Paul at msn.com Sat Mar 1 08:31:27 2003 From: Paul at msn.com (Pamel) Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 01:31:27 -0600 Subject: [matroska-general] Missing posts. Message-ID: It appears that the gmane NNTP interface is missing a lot of posts that it showed previously. You can see the posts that it doesn't show by going to the HTTP interface. The posts were not dropped by date as there are much older ones out there. Does anyone know if it is supposed to be this way? Pamel http://www.matroska.org From chris at matroska.org Mon Mar 3 15:26:40 2003 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 15:26:40 +0100 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Want to learn and help on the project: matroska : help with gstreamer plugins In-Reply-To: <20030303134533.26593.qmail@web14802.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030303134533.26593.qmail@web14802.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E636620.9030703@matroska.org> cc : matroska-general at freelists dot org cc : How Man cc : BBB Hi Henry ! Henry Poon wrote: >Hi Christian, >My name is Henry, and my user name in sf is >cpp_programmer. matroska sounds like a interesting >project and I am espeicially interested in the stream >server and the binary xml format. Just wonder can I >join the project and start learning and contribute to >the open sourece programming. Please let me know if I >am in. >Thank you very much. > >Little bit detail about me >Henry Poon >2 yrs C/C++ (mainly on Windows platform) >2 yrs Java >1 yr in XML programming (mainly using xerces) > >Thank you very much and looking forward to hearing >from you!! >Henry Poon > > sure, you are more than welcome my friend ! If you have some background in XML it will be easy for you to understand EBML ( http://ebml.sf.net ), the 'backbone' of matroska. With respect to the streaming server, we had an offer from How Man ( How Tam ) to look at this, he has some 6 years of C/C++ programming and is working for a big ISP in the US, so he is certainly the man to get this moving. He was sending me a mail recently telling me he cant really contribute to matroska in the next weeks, but is planning to dive into the icecast sources soon to get a feeling how difficult it was to get at least a HTTP server on the way for matroska, RTP to come (much ) later. As he has got the longer experience in programming and a very good networking background from his workplace, could you accept him being the project leader and you working with him together on the project ? How Tam, can you please give us a short update when you will be able to look at the task ? Its no problem at all if you cant start working on that right now, as i was pointing out already, as the streaming server is not at all highest priority for us now, its more a future thing we want. Is it ok for you if Henry joined your team or do you prefer to work alone ? Henry, if How Tam could not start the project right now, would you be interested to be assigned to one of the other jobs for the time being, like the file repair tool ( together with thana, who wanted to look at this once his real life interrupts are sorted out ;-) ) ?? Do you have any background in multimedia programming, like with Xine, mplayer ( www.mplayerhq.hu ) or VLC ( www.videolan.org ) ? Would you be interested in looking at the Gstreamer plugin, guided by Ronald 'BBB' Bultje maybe ? Dont misunderstand me, its not at all a problem if you hadn't, i am just trying to get a better picture what job could be of interest to you if we cant start working on the streaming server project right now :-) ! Thanks guys for your reply, and dont forget to send them to the matroska-general ML also. Regards Christian http://www.matroska.org From chris at matroska.org Mon Mar 3 16:57:06 2003 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 16:57:06 +0100 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Layout comments In-Reply-To: <003101c2e152$b4c962e0$6601a8c0@marlena> References: <003101c2e152$b4c962e0$6601a8c0@marlena> Message-ID: <3E637B52.8070308@matroska.org> People, have a look here : http://www.corecodec.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=292 I like the idea with the matroska puppet shape a lot, but as Pamel was saying on IRC we have to make sure it doesnt look like brackets only. This is Pamel's idea for an icon : http://66.25.200.148:81/mcftestvideo/logos/mkva16.png http://www.matroska.org From steve.lhomme at free.fr Mon Mar 3 17:15:47 2003 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 17:15:47 +0100 (CET) Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Layout comments In-Reply-To: <3E637B52.8070308@matroska.org> References: <003101c2e152$b4c962e0$6601a8c0@marlena> <3E637B52.8070308@matroska.org> Message-ID: <1046708147.3e637fb36f271@imp.free.fr> En r?ponse ? Christian HJ Wiesner : > > People, have a look here : > > http://www.corecodec.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=292 > > I like the idea with the matroska puppet shape a lot, but as Pamel was > > saying on IRC we have to make sure it doesnt look like brackets only. Well, when you see it in short it looks like a mix of a dick and a bracket. But when it's larger you see 3 russian dolls, one in white and the other 2 in black. I really like it ! IMO that's the best we have so far : simple, stylish (and sexy ;). http://www.matroska.org From chris at matroska.org Tue Mar 4 01:51:42 2003 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 01:51:42 +0100 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Layout Comments In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E63F89E.70005@matroska.org> Some variations to the Japanese logo design : http://www.faireal.net/matroska/matroska_logo003.png Anybody care to make something different thats based on that, so we get even more inspired :-) ?? BTW, if you guys dont want to use the mailing list, should we use the webboard on corecodec.com to discuss some more design ideas ? What you think ? Christian http://www.matroska.org From marlena at 1000ad.net Tue Mar 4 02:12:11 2003 From: marlena at 1000ad.net (Marlena Deren) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 19:12:11 -0600 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Layout Comments References: <3E63F89E.70005@matroska.org> Message-ID: <006f01c2e1eb$17baafb0$6601a8c0@marlena> I'll work on some of the logos tonight and post them sometime tomorrow. I am happy with using the mailing list especially that I usually get the messages twice. Did everyone sign up for it though? -Marlena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christian HJ Wiesner" To: ; Cc: ; ; ; ; ; ; ; Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 6:51 PM Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Layout Comments > > Some variations to the Japanese logo design : > > http://www.faireal.net/matroska/matroska_logo003.png > > Anybody care to make something different thats based on that, so we get > even more inspired :-) ?? > > BTW, if you guys dont want to use the mailing list, should we use the > webboard on corecodec.com to discuss some more design ideas ? > > What you think ? > > Christian > > http://www.matroska.org > > http://www.matroska.org From Paul at msn.com Tue Mar 4 06:01:47 2003 From: Paul at msn.com (Pamel) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 23:01:47 -0600 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Layout Comments References: <3E63F89E.70005@matroska.org> <006f01c2e1eb$17baafb0$6601a8c0@marlena> Message-ID: "Marlena Deren" wrote > I'll work on some of the logos tonight and post them sometime tomorrow. I am > happy with using the mailing list especially that I usually get the messages > twice. Did everyone sign up for it though? I only use the NNTP interface at news.gmane.org Pamel http://www.matroska.org From chris at matroska.org Thu Mar 6 15:17:40 2003 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 15:17:40 +0100 Subject: [matroska-general] 1. Any comments from the design Team on the Japanese matroska logos from Ayaka ? 2. Anybody interested in looking at logo and webpage for our sister project USF ? In-Reply-To: <3E63F89E.70005@matroska.org> References: <3E63F89E.70005@matroska.org> Message-ID: <3E675884.8010207@matroska.org> Hi Matroska Design Team !! 1. Its been quite from you people lately, i hope you didnt loose motivation ? RathO, your arms better again ? Does anybody please find the time to have a look at Ayaka's latest work here : http://corecodec.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=292&start=15 ?? Marlena, folks, i know this must look a bit weired to you, as you are the design team offering help to us and then all of a sudden we all get crazy about the contribution about an 'outsider' , but this logo design of this young Japanese guy ayaka is so simple and brilliant, we just have to love it !! Now, what i would appreciate a lot was if you could have a look again, and maybe do some more variations around his basic idea, so we can decide on a final version. Please note that Steve and myself have plans to invest the 1200,- US$ and register this logo as a trademark or servicemark for the non-profit organisation matroska ass. , at least in the USA, France, UK and Germany. The organisation is still to be founded, but we plan to make it a non-profit one, with the goal to make matroska widely accepted, even by the movie and music industry ( a dream, of course ). Is this acceptable for you to have a look at Ayaka's design and play with it a bit ? 2. USF , the Universal Subtitle Format, is a kind of 'sister' project to matroska, aiming to become to standard for subtitles in the audio/video encoding community. They are hosted on corecodec.org as well, more precisely on http://usf.corecodec.org http://corecodec.org/projects/usf As you can see the USF homepage is very basic and needs serious overworking. Also, even USF is in need of a logo and an icon. Anybody interested in the job ? You would have to work with one of the biggest pedants in the internet, the Corecodec.org founder Dan 'Betaboy' Marlin ( have a look at http://corecodec.com and http://corecoded.com and you know his design level ;) ). Dan is a great resource for design and his suggestions will almost always lead to a great result, so working with him is pretty demadning, but big fun if you like to be proud of your results in the end. Anybody volunteering ? Dan, do you have an idea how a USF logo could be looking like ? What did we want to express with the logos ? Hint to the powerful colours/effects of USF ? I have no idea, you may have noticed i am a complete fool about good design ... LOL Regards Christian http://www.matroska.org From steve.lhomme at free.fr Thu Mar 6 15:33:59 2003 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 15:33:59 +0100 (CET) Subject: [matroska-general] Re: 1. Any comments from the design Team on the Japanese matroska logos from Ayaka ? 2. Anybody interested in looking at logo and webpage for our sister project USF ? In-Reply-To: <3E675884.8010207@matroska.org> References: <3E63F89E.70005@matroska.org> <3E675884.8010207@matroska.org> Message-ID: <1046961239.3e675c578af24@imp.free.fr> En r?ponse ? Christian HJ Wiesner : > Marlena, folks, i know this must look a bit weired to you, as you are > the design team offering help to us and then all of a sudden we all get > crazy about the contribution about an 'outsider' , but this logo design > of this young Japanese guy ayaka is so simple and brilliant, we just > have to love it !! Yes, it's great. So far, Ayaka 4 is the best I've seen so far. Very simple & elegant. > Now, what i would appreciate a lot was if you could have a look again, > and maybe do some more variations around his basic idea, so we can > decide on a final version. Please note that Steve and myself have plans > to invest the 1200,- US$ and register this logo as a trademark or > servicemark for the non-profit organisation matroska ass. , at least in Yeah, it will be "Matroska Ass"... I hope you'll all like it :D > the USA, France, UK and Germany. The organisation is still to be > founded, but we plan to make it a non-profit one, with the goal to make > matroska widely accepted, even by the movie and music industry ( a > dream, of course ). Is this acceptable for you to have a look at Ayaka's > design and play with it a bit ? The page with all ideas are here : http://www.faireal.net/matroska/matroska_logo (not sure there are the ones from Rath0). > Dan is a great resource for design and his suggestions will almost > always lead to a great result, so working with him is pretty demadning, > but big fun if you like to be proud of your results in the end. BTW, what happened to the guy who make the CC design ? It looks very good. > Anybody volunteering ? http://www.matroska.org From steve.lhomme at free.fr Wed Mar 5 10:20:00 2003 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 10:20:00 +0100 (CET) Subject: [matroska-general] HyperThreading and digital media Message-ID: <1046856000.3e65c1400ea96@imp.free.fr> An article that tries to establish the benefit of hyperthreading in a multimedia environment. http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=2962 http://www.matroska.org From steve.lhomme at free.fr Thu Mar 6 10:12:26 2003 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 10:12:26 +0100 (CET) Subject: [matroska-general] The pros of dynamic linking Message-ID: <1046941946.3e6710fadf7a7@imp.free.fr> " NewsForge: Why not do more static linking, especially now that hard drives have gotten cheap? Mike: That's a fairly common question, with what is basically a "stock" answer. I might as well repeat it here, in case some of the readers aren't aware of it.... Basically dynamic linking has several major advantages, besides the reduction in hard disk space used. It also reduces memory consumption, normally far more of a concern if you want a responsive UI. It also makes updates much harder. For instance, take the GTK file selector. That's been a bone of contention for a long time now in the community. Unfortunately, we won't be getting a new one until GTK 2.4. By the time GTK 2.4 is released, GNOME 2.4 will already be out and using GTK 2.2, because the release cycles unfortunately aren't synchronised. Fortunately GTK preserves backwards compatability, so when 2.4 does come out, you can simply drop it in and all your apps will get the new file picker. That's one trivial example of how it can benefit the end user. Obviously stuff like security updates becomes much harder when things are statically linked. It also bloats downloads considerably. Hard disks may be cheap, but the majority of the Net still uses dial-up. We're being pretty careful to keep dialup users in mind when building autopackage." Now I remember when W2K was out and the W2K certification program, it was said that it's better to install the DLLs next to the application instead of the Windows\System folder. This way you ensure your program will always work as expected, even though you upgrade your OS or other applications. The updates to a program should come from the same vendor, not other/unknown ones. Unless you want to make your system unstable. (the same happens in UNIX, see the dependency hell) In this case why not using static linking directly ? Because the update could just be one DLL, instead of the whole binary program. That's the only advantage I can see. And in this case, you can still use C++ without much problem (as long as you control the compiler). Having worked some time with the LAME DLL, everytime a new version is out, I have to update my code otherwise it may lead to problems. So dynamic linking is good but not as good as one wuold expect... http://www.matroska.org From chris at matroska.org Thu Mar 6 12:26:01 2003 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 12:26:01 +0100 Subject: [matroska-general] Matroska : 1. Work list update 2. New job proposal 3. New team members Message-ID: <3E673049.4050800@matroska.org> Hi there, a couple of things : 1. Work list update Attached please find the listing of who is working on what, so we have a better overview : - Steve 'robux4' LHomme : finishing main libmatroska C++ library - Julien 'Cyrius' Coloos : matroskadub ; porting to Vdub 1.5.x , bug fixes - Moritz 'Mosu' Bunkus : mkvtoolnix ; adding Vorbi support and frame referencing to mkvmerger, improving mplayer patch to support seeking in the file - Jan 'myFUN/Kromyx' Schlenker : DirectShow parser ( soon ) - John 'spyder' Cannon : MPEG1 video muxing into matroska ; finishing SRT2USF.exe ( port to Linux ) - Animesh Shrivastava, Shailesh 'Shelly' Mistry : Porting libmatroska to C, updating C API - Ronald 'BBB' Bultje : matroska Gstreamer plugin ( waiting in C lib ) - 'mmu_man' : Porting mkvmerger and mplayer patch to BeOS - How ' How Man' Tam, Henry Poon : matroska streaming server, based on icecast ( not started yet ) - Jory Jcsston' : GUI in GTK for mkvmerger.exe ( learning phase ) - thana : file repair tool ( not started yet ) - David E. 'DaveEL' Leatherdale : avs2matroska.exe - Marlena, RathO, David, Nupur Sarpal, Anshuman 'Golddragongt' Bhairavbhat : website creation, logo - Raghavendran 'raghav' : MPC2matroska.exe - ChristianHJW : clarifying legal status of matroska association 2. New job proposal : Anybody volunteering to port Mosu's mkvmerger to Windows ? While matroskadub is a great tool to create ( mux ) and edit matroska files on Windows, i see problems coming along us with respect to muxing all the different subtitle formats we are going to support, as well as new audio formats such as - MPC - AAC - FLAC - Speex Support muxing of those should be much easier to do from a command line based tool like Mosu's mkvmerger, so its essential for us we have it ported to Windows. Anybody on the job ? Henry ( until we hear from How Tam ) ? Thana ? Shelly ? 3. New Team members Please allow me to welcome Marlena Deren , as new member of the design team ( our first female team member !! :-) ) Henry Poon, as new development team member. Welcome Henry, we hope working with our team will be big fun for you Anshuman 'Golddragongt' Bhairavbhat , joining the design team also Best regards Christian http://www.matroska.org From steve.lhomme at free.fr Thu Mar 6 12:47:59 2003 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 12:47:59 +0100 (CET) Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Matroska : 1. Work list update 2. New job proposal 3. New team members In-Reply-To: <3E673049.4050800@matroska.org> References: <3E673049.4050800@matroska.org> Message-ID: <1046951279.3e67356f5cc5a@imp.free.fr> En r?ponse ? Christian HJ Wiesner : > > Hi there, > > a couple of things : > > 1. Work list update > > Attached please find the listing of who is working on what, so we have a > > better overview : > > - Steve 'robux4' LHomme : finishing main libmatroska C++ library Finishing might be very optimistic :) For the moment I'm just adding features. And correcting bugs when they are found. Oh, and my name is Lhomme not LHomme or L'Homme. http://www.matroska.org From moritz at bunkus.org Thu Mar 6 13:36:24 2003 From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 13:36:24 +0100 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: [matroska-devel] Matroska : 1. Work list update 2. New job proposal 3. New team members In-Reply-To: <3E673049.4050800@matroska.org> References: <3E673049.4050800@matroska.org> Message-ID: <20030306123623.GV17028@bunkus.org> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From spyder482 at yahoo.com Thu Mar 6 15:24:45 2003 From: spyder482 at yahoo.com (John Cannon) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 08:24:45 -0600 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Matroska : 1. Work list update 2. New job proposal 3. New team members References: <3E673049.4050800@matroska.org> <20030306123623.GV17028@bunkus.org> Message-ID: > > - John 'spyder' Cannon : MPEG1 video muxing into matroska ; finishing > > SRT2USF.exe ( port to Linux ) > > Hadn't he tested it already under Linux? If you need someone to test it > feel free to ask me. Yes, it works fine in Linux :) http://www.matroska.org From Marlena at mail.1000ad.net Thu Mar 6 17:56:50 2003 From: Marlena at mail.1000ad.net (Marlena Deren) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 10:56:50 -0600 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: 1. Any comments from the design Team on the Japanese matroska logosfrom Ayaka ? 2. Anybody interested in looking at logo and webpage forour sister project USF ? Message-ID: <200303061056.AA30212226@mail.1000ad.net> Hey, I took a look at the page with all of the designs and I like all of the "outsider's," as Christian had put it :) variations of the logo, among others. I give Ayaka credit for making matryoshka not look like a bowling pin, which is the problem that I had. I know that I promised to post something on Tuesday and have not said anything about it since then, but for the past few days I have been editing a film project at school and barely was home. However, I have made few variations of the logo on the computer and have many more in my sketchbook. So as soon I get home and finally shower :), I will post them up and maybe you can decide to incorporate something into Ayaka's logo, which I agree, is pretty simple but brilliant! - Marlena ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Christian HJ Wiesner Reply-To: chris at matroska.org Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 15:17:40 +0100 > >Hi Matroska Design Team !! > >1. Its been quite from you people lately, i hope you didnt loose >motivation ? RathO, your arms better again ? Does anybody please find >the time to have a look at Ayaka's latest work here : > >http://corecodec.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=292&start=15 >?? > >Marlena, folks, i know this must look a bit weired to you, as you are >the design team offering help to us and then all of a sudden we all get >crazy about the contribution about an 'outsider' , but this logo design >of this young Japanese guy ayaka is so simple and brilliant, we just >have to love it !! > >Now, what i would appreciate a lot was if you could have a look again, >and maybe do some more variations around his basic idea, so we can >decide on a final version. Please note that Steve and myself have plans >to invest the 1200,- US$ and register this logo as a trademark or >servicemark for the non-profit organisation matroska ass. , at least in >the USA, France, UK and Germany. The organisation is still to be >founded, but we plan to make it a non-profit one, with the goal to make >matroska widely accepted, even by the movie and music industry ( a >dream, of course ). Is this acceptable for you to have a look at Ayaka's >design and play with it a bit ? > > >2. USF , the Universal Subtitle Format, is a kind of 'sister' project to >matroska, aiming to become to standard for subtitles in the audio/video >encoding community. They are hosted on corecodec.org as well, more >precisely on > >http://usf.corecodec.org >http://corecodec.org/projects/usf > >As you can see the USF homepage is very basic and needs serious >overworking. Also, even USF is in need of a logo and an icon. Anybody >interested in the job ? You would have to work with one of the biggest >pedants in the internet, the Corecodec.org founder Dan 'Betaboy' Marlin >( have a look at http://corecodec.com and http://corecoded.com and you >know his design level ;) ). > >Dan is a great resource for design and his suggestions will almost >always lead to a great result, so working with him is pretty demadning, >but big fun if you like to be proud of your results in the end. > >Anybody volunteering ? > >Dan, do you have an idea how a USF logo could be looking like ? What did >we want to express with the logos ? Hint to the powerful >colours/effects of USF ? I have no idea, you may have noticed i am a >complete fool about good design ... LOL > > >Regards > >Christian > > http://www.matroska.org From steve.lhomme at free.fr Thu Mar 6 18:01:38 2003 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 18:01:38 +0100 (CET) Subject: [matroska-general] Re: 1. Any comments from the design Team on the Japanese matroska logosfrom Ayaka ? 2. Anybody interested in looking at logo and webpage forour sister project USF ? In-Reply-To: <200303061056.AA30212226@mail.1000ad.net> References: <200303061056.AA30212226@mail.1000ad.net> Message-ID: <1046970097.3e677ef205aca@imp.free.fr> En r?ponse ? Marlena Deren : > Hey, > > I took a look at the page with all of the designs and I like all of the > "outsider's," as Christian had put it :) variations of the logo, among > others. I give Ayaka credit for making matryoshka not look like a > bowling pin, which is the problem that I had. I know that I promised to > post something on Tuesday and have not said anything about it since > then, but for the past few days I have been editing a film project at > school and barely was home. However, I have made few variations of the > logo on the computer and have many more in my sketchbook. So as soon I > get home and finally shower :), I will post them up and maybe you can > decide to incorporate something into Ayaka's logo, which I agree, is > pretty simple but brilliant! Great ! With more ideas, we could manage to improve it. The good thing about matroska is that we take our time :) We are not a company so we have no schedule. If something has to take a long time, it will :) But in the end it'll be great. And the logo is not an immediate need. It will probably be with the first tools to produce/render matroska files will appear. Maybe in april, I don't know. thx for the sustained contribution :D http://www.matroska.org From rathoonline at hotmail.com Thu Mar 6 21:41:04 2003 From: rathoonline at hotmail.com (Sly /[RathO.ORG]) Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 20:41:04 +0000 Subject: [matroska-general] Its been a pleasure dudes! Message-ID: Hello all, so i must leave very soon for a 2 months course from end march to end of may. My course was supppose to begin mid-august... Im happy to see that people got interested in developping design for Matroska. (Hey guys, u should at least put my matroska logo that u'll find on RathO.ORG on the faireal page!). I wish u the best guys with the Matroska project, ill be back online somewhere in June, and i hope the container will be ready ;) Ill come by IRC to say hello tho.. Keep up the good work dudes! Regards Sly /[RathO.ORG] rathoonline at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail http://www.matroska.org From Liisachan at faireal.net Fri Mar 7 08:03:34 2003 From: Liisachan at faireal.net (Liisachan) Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 16:03:34 +0900 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Its been a pleasure dudes! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E684446.7000902@faireal.net> Sly /[RathO.ORG] wrote: >Im happy to see that people got interested in developping design for >Matroska. (Hey guys, u should at least put my matroska logo that u'll find >on RathO.ORG on the faireal page!). > > sure, i did that. maybe i should ve done that earlier... that page was a quickie. first made just because there were more than 10 images sent from ayaka, and i simply wanted to see them all by just opening one page, (i was so lazy, i didnt do anything special but just putting some tags for this purpose) It is, and woud be, my honour to put other excellent designs in that page. Please show me links for images to be added, if any. Regards, Liisachan http://www.matroska.org From marlena at 1000ad.net Thu Mar 6 23:33:09 2003 From: marlena at 1000ad.net (Marlena Deren) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 16:33:09 -0600 Subject: [matroska-general] Logos Message-ID: <002901c2e430$5e35c320$6601a8c0@marlena> Hey, I finally posted couple of my logo ideas. They were done before the latest "Japanese" version. Take a look and let me know what you think and what works, they are drafts so anything can be changed. I have tons of other ideas but I don't know whether I should continue working on Matroska or whether I should move onto the USF project if no one has volunteered yet. The link for the Matroska logos is: http://www.1000ad.net/marlena/matroskalogos.html (I worked around an idea of an icon of matryoshka which you will find in one form or another in every one of the logos :) ) -Marlena http://www.matroska.org From chris at matroska.org Fri Mar 7 00:23:15 2003 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 00:23:15 +0100 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Logos In-Reply-To: <002901c2e430$5e35c320$6601a8c0@marlena> References: <002901c2e430$5e35c320$6601a8c0@marlena> Message-ID: <3E67D863.9070005@matroska.org> Marlena Deren wrote: >Hey, > >I finally posted couple of my logo ideas. They were done before the latest "Japanese" version. Take a look and let me know what you think and what works, they are drafts so anything can be changed. I have tons of other ideas but I don't know whether I s >hould continue working on Matroska or whether I should move onto the USF project if no one has volunteered yet. The link for the Matroska logos is: http://www.1000ad.net/marlena/matroskalogos.html >(I worked around an idea of an icon of matryoshka which you will find in one form or another in every one of the logos :) ) > >-Marlena > >http://www.matroska.org > Marlena, you should have been on the IRC channel and witnessed the discussion about what logo is the best and such .. all are brilliant !! Keep the comments coming folks, i have a personal favourite, but would love to hear your opinion first. Regards Christian http://www.matroska.org From steve.lhomme at free.fr Fri Mar 7 09:30:44 2003 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 09:30:44 +0100 (CET) Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Logos In-Reply-To: <3E67D863.9070005@matroska.org> References: <002901c2e430$5e35c320$6601a8c0@marlena> <3E67D863.9070005@matroska.org> Message-ID: <1047025844.3e6858b4e0f06@imp.free.fr> En r?ponse ? Christian HJ Wiesner : > Marlena Deren wrote: > > >Hey, > > > >I finally posted couple of my logo ideas. They were done before the > latest "Japanese" version. Take a look and let me know what you think > and what works, they are drafts so anything can be changed. I have tons > of other ideas but I don't know whether I s > >hould continue working on Matroska or whether I should move onto the > USF project if no one has volunteered yet. The link for the Matroska > logos is: http://www.1000ad.net/marlena/matroskalogos.html > >(I worked around an idea of an icon of matryoshka which you will find > in one form or another in every one of the logos :) ) > > > >-Marlena I like them all. I have a preference for the bottom left one. It's simple and nice. In the other hand, as it was said by Pamel (IIRC), the logo has to look good in B&W, ie 2 colors. So that it can easily printed. That's why I like the Ayaka 4/13 one. The one on the bottom right could also achieve that. Now for USF it's another story. I don't think anyone will ever print that on a simple surface (think of the CD Disc logo on CD players). > Marlena, > > you should have been on the IRC channel and witnessed the discussion > about what logo is the best and such .. all are brilliant !! I think I missed that one too. > Keep the comments coming folks, i have a personal favourite, but would > > love to hear your opinion first. http://www.matroska.org From steve.lhomme at free.fr Fri Mar 7 10:25:27 2003 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 10:25:27 +0100 (CET) Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Logos In-Reply-To: <1047025844.3e6858b4e0f06@imp.free.fr> References: <002901c2e430$5e35c320$6601a8c0@marlena> <3E67D863.9070005@matroska.org> <1047025844.3e6858b4e0f06@imp.free.fr> Message-ID: <1047029127.3e68658754098@imp.free.fr> BTW, among the new logos Liisachan posted on http://www.faireal.net/matroska/matroska_logo there is a new version of the original Ayaka one. This is the "Ayaka (middle-narrow)". This time the circle is "around" the "dolls". I tend to like it more than the other similar versions. As it's a bit smaller (and closer to a square) and doesn't look like a horn anymore :) I'm still not sure I prefer this one to the original one with the circle on the bottom. Because the circle looks like a limit, a prison. At least it gives more "importance" to the dolls than previous versions. So everyone, keep on the good work, we'll finally have something ace. And yes, matroska is also meant to be educational for all participants. I hope we can all learn from each others :) http://www.matroska.org From kimmo at poispakkoruotsi.com Fri Mar 7 06:07:42 2003 From: kimmo at poispakkoruotsi.com (Kimmo) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 07:07:42 +0200 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Logos References: <002901c2e430$5e35c320$6601a8c0@marlena> Message-ID: <001701c2e467$7fb49260$0100a8c0@kimmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marlena Deren" To: Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 12:33 AM Subject: [matroska-general] Logos > Hey, > > I finally posted couple of my logo ideas. They were done before the latest "Japanese" version. Take a look and let me know what you think and what works, they are drafts so anything can be changed. I have tons of other ideas but I don't know whether I should continue working on Matroska or whether I should move onto the USF project if no one has volunteered yet. The link for the Matroska logos is: http://www.1000ad.net/marlena/matroskalogos.html > (I worked around an idea of an icon of matryoshka which you will find in one form or another in every one of the logos :) ) I think the third logo is great, enough "official" and so :) http://www.matroska.org From Liisachan at faireal.net Fri Mar 7 07:55:08 2003 From: Liisachan at faireal.net (Liisachan) Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 15:55:08 +0900 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Logos In-Reply-To: <002901c2e430$5e35c320$6601a8c0@marlena> References: <002901c2e430$5e35c320$6601a8c0@marlena> Message-ID: <3E68424C.1090606@faireal.net> Hi Marlena: i am the one who posted ayaka's logo for him, and i m afraid what i did might have embarrassed some of you guys in a way well, as i posted there 1st, http://corecodec.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=292 it was not that i was going to ignore other works; i posted a link as just ONE possible basis for discussion, or rather, just to show there are quite a few ppl who are interested in this project. in fact, i even didnt (and dont) know exactly how many other works there have been for possible MKV logos/icons, tho i did know MiChiFu for MCF :) Well, but, to be fair, i should note that even now there is a "help wanted" article for the Logo / Icon in the project page http://sourceforge.net/people/viewjob.php?group_id=68739&job_id=12833 which read: "needs help badly from somebody making a nice logo for us. " So, since i was (and practically am) an "outsider," i simply thought any possibility would be openly welcomed. putting that aside, ayaka is young, and naturally not skilled like a pro nor experienced, tho we must admit he has excellent taste; His design is simple, chic, and elegant; not very colorful, but not too loud. However, probably his sketch would have been polished a little... I m feeling that especially now that i ve checked your sophisticated logos, Marlena. so even if his idea is basically ok, the problem would not be "this or that?" but he would still need a lot of help by other skilled designers, and imo, such a help should be highly appreciated. On the other hand, even tho his idea is not best for the logo after all, we might just as well use his icon as a part of web design etc. as a little accent piece. Like today's OGM that is related both with that Fish logo and "Thor and Snake," there can be more than one designs around Matroska; nothing wrong about that. i mirrored your work in my page too: http://www.faireal.net/matroska/matroska_logo Your logos are so sophisticated that, to my eyes, any one of them can be the logo for a professional air carrier company :) Regards, Liisachan Marlena Deren wrote: >Hey, > >I finally posted couple of my logo ideas. They were done before the latest "Japanese" version. Take a look and let me know what you think and what works, they are drafts so anything can be changed. I have tons of other ideas but I don't know whether I should continue working on Matroska or whether I should move onto the USF project if no one has volunteered yet. The link for the Matroska logos is: http://www.1000ad.net/marlena/matroskalogos.html >(I worked around an idea of an icon of matryoshka which you will find in one form or another in every one of the logos :) ) > >-Marlena > >http://www.matroska.org > > > > > http://www.matroska.org From steve.lhomme at free.fr Fri Mar 7 10:11:59 2003 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 10:11:59 +0100 (CET) Subject: [matroska-general] Linux PVR Message-ID: <1047028319.3e68625f78506@imp.free.fr> Personal Video Recorder. http://www.linuxjournal.com//article.php?sid=6690 Interresting they consider OGG Theora as a good alternative. I don't know when, since the project seem to be stalled (2 months without any news, noone affected to this project). I hope mencoder or GStreamer will be able to capture to Matroska (in HuffYUV & FLAC) soon. http://www.matroska.org From steve.lhomme at free.fr Fri Mar 7 10:17:11 2003 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 10:17:11 +0100 (CET) Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Linux PVR In-Reply-To: <1047028319.3e68625f78506@imp.free.fr> References: <1047028319.3e68625f78506@imp.free.fr> Message-ID: <1047028631.3e6863976adf6@imp.free.fr> En r?ponse ? Steve Lhomme : > > Personal Video Recorder. > http://www.linuxjournal.com//article.php?sid=6690 > > Interresting they consider OGG Theora as a good alternative. I don't > know when, > since the project seem to be stalled (2 months without any news, noone > affected > to this project). > > I hope mencoder or GStreamer will be able to capture to Matroska (in > HuffYUV & FLAC) soon. That makes me think that we may contact the guys behind MythTV and Freevo to let them know Matroska is here and might help them (especially for the synchronisation pbs they have). http://www.matroska.org From Marlena at mail.1000ad.net Fri Mar 7 15:37:28 2003 From: Marlena at mail.1000ad.net (Marlena Deren) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 08:37:28 -0600 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Logos Message-ID: <200303070837.AA73400440@mail.1000ad.net> Hi, I realized that I should have numbered the logos to be exactly sure which one you are talking about, but I am assuming that it is the one with the "cube." Do you think that the font works in that one? I was not sure about it. Thanks for your response :) -Marlena ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Kimmo" Reply-To: matroska-general at freelists.org Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 07:07:42 +0200 > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Marlena Deren" >To: >Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 12:33 AM >Subject: [matroska-general] Logos > > >> Hey, >> >> I finally posted couple of my logo ideas. They were done before the latest >"Japanese" version. Take a look and let me know what you think and what >works, they are drafts so anything can be changed. I have tons of other >ideas but I don't know whether I should continue working on Matroska or >whether I should move onto the USF project if no one has volunteered yet. >The link for the Matroska logos is: >http://www.1000ad.net/marlena/matroskalogos.html >> (I worked around an idea of an icon of matryoshka which you will find in >one form or another in every one of the logos :) ) > >I think the third logo is great, enough "official" and so :) > > >http://www.matroska.org > > http://www.matroska.org From chris at matroska.org Fri Mar 7 16:03:52 2003 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 16:03:52 +0100 Subject: [matroska-general] Announcement : Corecodec Team to release MPC SV7 DirectShow filter with next TCMP RC3 release Message-ID: <3E68B4D8.7010900@matroska.org> Hi, i have the pleasure to announce that Christophe 'Toff' Paris was successful in creating a DirectShow playback filter for MPC ( musepack ) SV7 audio streams. The filter will be released together with the next RC ( Nr. 3 ) of 'The Core Media Player' . Same time MPC files will be added to the list of supported formats ( extensions ) in the TCMP setup. Most of the advanced features of TCMP, such as the Nefertiti playlist and the Dynamic Equalizer were tested with MPC and work fine. If anybody copied here wants to have a look first and play MPC in Windows Mediaplayer ( beware !! ;-) ) or TCMP, pls. drop me a short mail. Best regards Christian P.S. JohnV : Are you ok if we announce this on HA.org once RC3 is to be released ? We could do earlier, if you wanted to. http://www.matroska.org From johnv at hydrogenaudio.org Fri Mar 7 16:16:46 2003 From: johnv at hydrogenaudio.org (JohnV) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 17:16:46 +0200 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Announcement : Corecodec Team to release MPC SV7 DirectShow filter with next TCMP RC3 release References: <3E68B4D8.7010900@matroska.org> Message-ID: <003801c2e4bc$959dda50$113cf6d4@hawk> Great news great news :) >P.S. JohnV : Are you ok if we announce this on HA.org once RC3 is to be >released ? We could do earlier, if you wanted to. Just announce it when it is best for you. :) Regards, Juha aka JohnV http://www.matroska.org From dmarlin at optonline.net Sat Mar 8 02:05:44 2003 From: dmarlin at optonline.net (Dan Marlin) Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 20:05:44 -0500 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Announcement : Corecodec Team to release MPC SV7 DirectShow filter with next TCMP RC3 release In-Reply-To: <3E68B4D8.7010900@matroska.org> Message-ID: <003d01c2e50e$dd6ce7c0$0201a8c0@laptop> All, You can now add Monkey's Audio APE to the list as well.... Toff is on a roll! Next, the MAD decoder. I am gonna email Rob now ;-) Regards, Dan Marlin -----Original Message----- From: Christian HJ Wiesner [mailto:chris at matroska.org] Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 10:04 AM To: mpc-devel at freelists.org; matroska-general at freelists.org; mpc-general at freelists.org Cc: toff at matroska.org; betaboy at corecodec.com; Ludovic 'BlackSun' Vialle; johnv at hydrogenaudio.org; phase at musepack-source.de; mtrh at musepack.org; spase at musepack.org; Frank at matroska.org Subject: Announcement : Corecodec Team to release MPC SV7 DirectShow filter with next TCMP RC3 release Hi, i have the pleasure to announce that Christophe 'Toff' Paris was successful in creating a DirectShow playback filter for MPC ( musepack ) SV7 audio streams. The filter will be released together with the next RC ( Nr. 3 ) of 'The Core Media Player' . Same time MPC files will be added to the list of supported formats ( extensions ) in the TCMP setup. Most of the advanced features of TCMP, such as the Nefertiti playlist and the Dynamic Equalizer were tested with MPC and work fine. If anybody copied here wants to have a look first and play MPC in Windows Mediaplayer ( beware !! ;-) ) or TCMP, pls. drop me a short mail. Best regards Christian P.S. JohnV : Are you ok if we announce this on HA.org once RC3 is to be released ? We could do earlier, if you wanted to. http://www.matroska.org From Marlena at mail.1000ad.net Fri Mar 7 16:10:09 2003 From: Marlena at mail.1000ad.net (Marlena Deren) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 09:10:09 -0600 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Logos Message-ID: <200303070910.AA76415096@mail.1000ad.net> Hey Liisachan, That was a one, long email which substituted my morning newspaper :) I have a feeling that you are trying to justify Ayaka's logo and his/your involvement as "outsiders" in the Matroska design, but please don't be apologetic about it. No one is embarassed, I don't think, at least I am not and I would not know why we should in the first place, I appreciate everyone's work and the more the better. I posted my work for the rest of the team to consider and maybe to give anyone else who is designing, an inspiration of incorporating something from any of my stuff into theirs. I am just adding my ideas to the Matroska design think tank :) and by no means trying to elevate my designs above any one else's. I didn't think of an "air carrier logo" at first, but that is a good observation :) I suppose that my work has a bit of a commercial feeling in it. Feel free to add any logo ideas, this is not a beauty paegant :) anything is a valuable idea resource. Ayaka has spent quite an amount of his time and attention on the logo and provided us with multiple v ariations of it, all is appreciated and I try to give my feedback to everyone. Also, thanks for collecting all the graphics and posting them all on one page, you have no idea how helpful it is to see it all under one link plus there are few I have not seen before either. -Marlena ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Liisachan Reply-To: matroska-general at freelists.org Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 15:55:08 +0900 > >Hi Marlena: > >i am the one who posted ayaka's logo for him, >and i m afraid what i did might have embarrassed some of you guys in a way > >well, as i posted there 1st, >http://corecodec.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=292 >it was not that i was going to ignore other works; >i posted a link as just ONE possible basis for discussion, >or rather, just to show there are quite a few ppl who are interested in >this project. > >in fact, i even didnt (and dont) know exactly how many other works there >have been for possible MKV logos/icons, >tho i did know MiChiFu for MCF :) > >Well, but, to be fair, i should note that even now there is a "help >wanted" article for the Logo / Icon in the project page >http://sourceforge.net/people/viewjob.php?group_id=68739&job_id=12833 >which read: "needs help badly from somebody making a nice logo for us. " >So, since i was (and practically am) an "outsider," i simply thought >any possibility would be openly welcomed. > >putting that aside, ayaka is young, and naturally not skilled like a pro >nor experienced, >tho we must admit he has excellent taste; >His design is simple, chic, and elegant; not very colorful, but not too >loud. >However, probably his sketch would have been polished a little... >I m feeling that especially now that i ve checked your sophisticated >logos, Marlena. >so even if his idea is basically ok, the problem would not be "this or >that?" but he would still need a lot of help >by other skilled designers, and imo, such a help should be highly >appreciated. > >On the other hand, even tho his idea is not best for the logo after all, >we might just as well use his icon as a part of web design etc. as a >little accent piece. >Like today's OGM that is related both with that Fish logo and "Thor and >Snake," >there can be more than one designs around Matroska; nothing wrong about >that. > >i mirrored your work in my page too: >http://www.faireal.net/matroska/matroska_logo > >Your logos are so sophisticated that, to my eyes, >any one of them can be the logo for a professional air carrier company :) > >Regards, > >Liisachan > > > > > > > >Marlena Deren wrote: > >>Hey, >> >>I finally posted couple of my logo ideas. They were done before the latest "Japanese" version. Take a look and let me know what you think and what works, they are drafts so anything can be changed. I have tons of other ideas but I don't know whether I should continue working on Matroska or whether I should move onto the USF project if no one has volunteered yet. The link for the Matroska logos is: http://www.1000ad.net/marlena/matroskalogos.html >>(I worked around an idea of an icon of matryoshka which you will find in one form or another in every one of the logos :) ) >> >>-Marlena >> >>http://www.matroska.org >> >> >> >> >> > > >http://www.matroska.org > > http://www.matroska.org From chris at matroska.org Fri Mar 7 16:09:58 2003 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 16:09:58 +0100 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Logos In-Reply-To: <200303070910.AA76415096@mail.1000ad.net> References: <200303070910.AA76415096@mail.1000ad.net> Message-ID: <3E68B646.5080307@matroska.org> Marlena Deren wrote: >Hey Liisachan, > >That was a one, long email which substituted my morning newspaper :) > :-) !! > >I have a feeling that you are trying to justify Ayaka's logo and his/your involvement as "outsiders" in the Matroska design, but please don't be apologetic about it. No one is embarassed, I don't think, at least I am not and I would not know why we should in the first place, I appreciate everyone's work and the more the better. > Marlena, very well said. Ayaka has no reason at all to feel embarassed, he was giving excellent input with his logo and we all appreciate that a lot. It is not said the logo has to come from the 'matroska design team' if the idea of an 'outsider' is better everybody here will be happy to make it the official logo. Now, i have to admit the professionalism of Marlen's logo's struck me like a lightning ! Jese, these logos look like they cost 1000,- US$ each, at the very minimum !! What i would like to happen now is the following : Marlena, could you consider to take Ayaka's base design and interprete it in your style ?? Am i asking too much ?? Regards Christian http://www.matroska.org From Liisachan at faireal.net Sat Mar 8 08:12:57 2003 From: Liisachan at faireal.net (Liisachan) Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 16:12:57 +0900 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Logos In-Reply-To: <200303070910.AA76415096@mail.1000ad.net> References: <200303070910.AA76415096@mail.1000ad.net> Message-ID: <3E6997F9.3020505@faireal.net> Hi, thank you for understanding, of course there is nothing wrong with new designs from "outside" at all, = rahter they are to be welcomed as you said, but i just felt i had to say something to explain how there are these=20 new logos all of a sudden. > I didn't think of an "air carrier logo" at first, but that is a good ob= servation :) > I suppose that my work has a bit of a commercial feeling in it. Er, I didnt mean that your work had a "commercial" flavour; i just meant they are so nice and made skillfully that anyone of them cou= ld be the official logo for a real, great company (commercial or non-profit one) But come to think of it, since Matoroska is a "super-container" it s not so strange that Matroska Logo might be associated with some air = carriers; Matroska IS a carrier :) Just one thing: I m not a designer myself; I m here because i am interested in Matroska g= enerally, especially as a subtitler. I upped some articles about Matroska before in= my site for japanese readers, then one of the readers contacted me saying he made= a logo. Liisachan Marlena Deren wrote: >Hey Liisachan, > >That was a one, long email which substituted my morning newspaper :)=20 >I have a feeling that you are trying to justify Ayaka's logo and his/you= r involvement as "outsiders" in the Matroska design, but please don't be = apologetic about it. No one is embarassed, I don't think, at least I am n= ot and I would not know why we should in the first place, I appreciate ev= eryone's work and the more the better. I posted my work for the rest of t= he team to consider and maybe to give anyone else who is designing, an in= spiration of incorporating something from any of my stuff into theirs. I = am just adding my ideas to the Matroska design think tank :) and by no me= ans trying to elevate my designs above any one else's. I didn't think of = an "air carrier logo" at first, but that is a good observation :) I suppo= se that my work has a bit of a commercial feeling in it. Feel free to add= any logo ideas, this is not a beauty paegant :) anything is a valuable i= dea resource. Ayaka has spent quite an amount of his time and attention o= n the logo and provided us with multiple v > ariations of it, all is appreciated and I try to give my feedback to ev= eryone. Also, thanks for collecting all the graphics and posting them all= on one page, you have no idea how helpful it is to see it all under one = link plus there are few I have not seen before either. > >-Marlena > > > >---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- >From: Liisachan >Reply-To: matroska-general at freelists.org >Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 15:55:08 +0900 > > =20 > >>Hi Marlena: >> >>i am the one who posted ayaka's logo for him, >>and i m afraid what i did might have embarrassed some of you guys in a = way >> >>well, as i posted there 1st, >>http://corecodec.com/modules.php?op=3Dmodload&name=3DPNphpBB2&file=3Dvi= ewtopic&t=3D292 >>it was not that i was going to ignore other works; >>i posted a link as just ONE possible basis for discussion, >>or rather, just to show there are quite a few ppl who are interested in= =20 >>this project. >> >>in fact, i even didnt (and dont) know exactly how many other works ther= e=20 >>have been for possible MKV logos/icons, >>tho i did know MiChiFu for MCF :) >> >>Well, but, to be fair, i should note that even now there is a "help=20 >>wanted" article for the Logo / Icon in the project page >>http://sourceforge.net/people/viewjob.php?group_id=3D68739&job_id=3D128= 33 >>which read: "needs help badly from somebody making a nice logo for us. = " >>So, since i was (and practically am) an "outsider," i simply thought=20 >>any possibility would be openly welcomed. >> >>putting that aside, ayaka is young, and naturally not skilled like a pr= o=20 >>nor experienced, >>tho we must admit he has excellent taste; >>His design is simple, chic, and elegant; not very colorful, but not too= =20 >>loud. >>However, probably his sketch would have been polished a little... >>I m feeling that especially now that i ve checked your sophisticated=20 >>logos, Marlena. >>so even if his idea is basically ok, the problem would not be "this or = >>that?" but he would still need a lot of help >>by other skilled designers, and imo, such a help should be highly=20 >>appreciated. >> >>On the other hand, even tho his idea is not best for the logo after all= , >>we might just as well use his icon as a part of web design etc. as a=20 >>little accent piece. >>Like today's OGM that is related both with that Fish logo and "Thor and= =20 >>Snake," >>there can be more than one designs around Matroska; nothing wrong about= =20 >>that. >> >>i mirrored your work in my page too: >>http://www.faireal.net/matroska/matroska_logo >> >>Your logos are so sophisticated that, to my eyes, >>any one of them can be the logo for a professional air carrier company = :) >> >>Regards, >> >>Liisachan >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Marlena Deren wrote: >> >> =20 >> >>>Hey, >>> >>>I finally posted couple of my logo ideas. They were done before the la= test "Japanese" version. Take a look and let me know what you think and w= hat works, they are drafts so anything can be changed. I have tons of oth= er ideas but I don't know whether I should continue working on Matroska o= r whether I should move onto the USF project if no one has volunteered ye= t. The link for the Matroska logos is: http://www.1000ad.net/marlena/matr= oskalogos.html =20 >>>(I worked around an idea of an icon of matryoshka which you will find = in one form or another in every one of the logos :) ) >>> >>>-Marlena >>> >>>http://www.matroska.org >>> >>> >>> >>>=20 >>> >>> =20 >>> >>http://www.matroska.org >> >> >> =20 >> >http://www.matroska.org > > > > =20 > http://www.matroska.org From Marlena at mail.1000ad.net Fri Mar 7 16:37:58 2003 From: Marlena at mail.1000ad.net (Marlena Deren) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 09:37:58 -0600 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Logos Message-ID: <200303070937.AA79233144@mail.1000ad.net> Hey, Based on your comments about other logos, I had a feeling you'd like that one the most :) I did consider B&W and the logo looks better than in the shades of green, but I love color and also thought green was the inofficial color of Matroska :) I can make two identical versions of it, one for the electronic medium and a B&W or a colored one that is suited for printing and looks good on paper. I was not aware of that option before. Actually the other two logos that I would consider for this are Pamel's, which is so extremely bold and full of impact, as well as the logo with bar codes. Pamel's logo screams "graphic design" and has so much potential from a fanstastic 3D looking logo if you extend all of the angles out of the box, a rotating animation, to a paper stamp, you could even create a sculpture based on it a put it in the lobby of your not-for-profit organization when you become one :) Plus it would work well with any solid color+black or solid color+white combination. It 's a terrific. I am wondering why I missed that one before... -Marlena ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Steve Lhomme Reply-To: matroska-general at freelists.org Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 09:30:44 +0100 (CET) >I like them all. I have a preference for the bottom left one. It's simple and >nice. In the other hand, as it was said by Pamel (IIRC), the logo has to look >good in B&W, ie 2 colors. So that it can easily printed. That's why I like the >Ayaka 4/13 one. The one on the bottom right could also achieve that. > >Now for USF it's another story. I don't think anyone will ever print that on a >simple surface (think of the CD Disc logo on CD players). > >> Marlena, >> >> you should have been on the IRC channel and witnessed the discussion >> about what logo is the best and such .. all are brilliant !! > >I think I missed that one too. > >> Keep the comments coming folks, i have a personal favourite, but would >> >> love to hear your opinion first. >http://www.matroska.org > > http://www.matroska.org From Marlena at mail.1000ad.net Fri Mar 7 16:47:42 2003 From: Marlena at mail.1000ad.net (Marlena Deren) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 09:47:42 -0600 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Logos Message-ID: <200303070947.AA80216184@mail.1000ad.net> Do you have any specific requests, or something that you would particularly like to keep exactly as it is in Ayaka's logo, or am I free to redesign it in any way I like? -Marlena ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Christian HJ Wiesner Reply-To: matroska-general at freelists.org Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 16:09:58 +0100 > > > >Marlena Deren wrote: > >>Hey Liisachan, >> >>That was a one, long email which substituted my morning newspaper :) >> > >:-) !! > >> >>I have a feeling that you are trying to justify Ayaka's logo and his/your involvement as "outsiders" in the Matroska design, but please don't be apologetic about it. No one is embarassed, I don't think, at least I am not and I would not know why we should in the first place, I appreciate everyone's work and the more the better. >> > >Marlena, very well said. Ayaka has no reason at all to feel embarassed, >he was giving excellent input with his logo and we all appreciate that a >lot. It is not said the logo has to come from the 'matroska design team' >if the idea of an 'outsider' is better everybody here will be happy to >make it the official logo. > >Now, i have to admit the professionalism of Marlen's logo's struck me >like a lightning ! Jese, these logos look like they cost 1000,- US$ >each, at the very minimum !! > >What i would like to happen now is the following : > >Marlena, could you consider to take Ayaka's base design and interprete >it in your style ?? Am i asking too much ?? > >Regards > >Christian > >http://www.matroska.org > > http://www.matroska.org From christian at matroska.org Fri Mar 7 21:09:50 2003 From: christian at matroska.org (ChristianHJW) Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 21:09:50 +0100 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Logos In-Reply-To: <200303070947.AA80216184@mail.1000ad.net> References: <200303070947.AA80216184@mail.1000ad.net> Message-ID: <3E68FC8E.8000806@matroska.org> Marlena Deren wrote: > Do you have any specific requests, or something that you would particularly like to keep exactly as it is in Ayaka's logo, or am I free to redesign it in any way I like? > -Marlena Marlena, please enjoy the full pleasure of artistic freedom :-) ( bad english, i know, but for sure it sounds funny at least ;-) ) Regards Christian http://www.matroska.org From Marlena at mail.1000ad.net Fri Mar 7 22:56:25 2003 From: Marlena at mail.1000ad.net (Marlena Deren) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 15:56:25 -0600 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Logos Message-ID: <200303071556.AA109576312@mail.1000ad.net> It sound right to me, or maybe it should be "pleasure of full artistic freedom," but I prefer the undertone of your version :) I will post something in a couple of days. -Marlena ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: ChristianHJW Reply-To: matroska-general at freelists.org Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 21:09:50 +0100 > >Marlena Deren wrote: >> Do you have any specific requests, or something that you would particularly like to keep exactly as it is in Ayaka's logo, or am I free to redesign it in any way I like? >> -Marlena > > >Marlena, > >please enjoy the full pleasure of artistic freedom :-) > >( bad english, i know, but for sure it sounds funny at least ;-) ) > >Regards > >Christian > > >http://www.matroska.org > > http://www.matroska.org From steve.lhomme at free.fr Sat Mar 8 14:28:17 2003 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 14:28:17 +0100 Subject: [matroska-general] First public release of libmatroska Message-ID: <3E69EFF1.4050001@free.fr> Hi, As promised we have reach an important step in the developement of matroska. Today is the day where we can release the current library to the public (developpers). It can be used to produce valid matroska files in various/flexible form. And it also allows a flexible way to retrieve information from the file for playback. You can download the file on Sourceforge from now on at : http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/matroska/libmatroska.v0.2.0-alpha1.zip?download ------------- Here are the release notes: This is the first release that is usable to make valid matroska files. You can currently read/write segments, segment info, tracks informations, cluster with frames and references. You can also void some elements you don't want to keep, overwrite a void element (to be able to write elements like the cue entry at the beggining of the file). And you can jump to any location in the find and find the next known element (Segment, Cluster, etc) ------------- There are many improvement and additions pending. But with this code you can already read/write any movie with all important needed features. More matroska features will be introduced with time, as well as bug corrections. PS: It's official now, matroska is no vapourware :D http://www.matroska.org From Golddragongt at cs.com Sat Mar 8 16:46:09 2003 From: Golddragongt at cs.com (Golddragongt at cs.com) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 10:46:09 EST Subject: [matroska-general] On the layout Message-ID: <105.29c535f2.2b9b6a41@cs.com> Hey, I finally did update the sample webpage ( http://www28.brinkster.com/golddragongt/sample.html ). Comments? Give me a go ahead, and I'll start tweaking the page and make it ready for the actual coding. Also, Christian, you mentioned something about the USF homepage and asked if anyone is interested in helping out... I am. ~Golddragongt~ http://www.matroska.org From marlena at 1000ad.net Sat Mar 8 20:02:56 2003 From: marlena at 1000ad.net (Marlena Deren) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 13:02:56 -0600 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: On the layout References: <105.29c535f2.2b9b6a41@cs.com> Message-ID: <004401c2e5a5$5568eee0$6601a8c0@marlena> Hi, I checked the layout and it sure got nicer since the last version. Thanks for putting the sample logo on the green bar, at least now I know what the dimensions of the logo should be. Speaking of which, per Christian's request, I am reworking Ayaka's logo, is that OK with him? Did he sign up for this list? The reason I am asking is because sometimes people don't like if someone else is playing with their design. Going back to the site layout, I think that that the left nav could be used for latest update information or other related sites, but it's up to the developers to use it for their purpose. Have a good weekend everyone, Marlena ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Cc: ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 9:46 AM Subject: [matroska-general] On the layout > Hey, > > I finally did update the sample webpage ( > http://www28.brinkster.com/golddragongt/sample.html ). Comments? Give me a go > ahead, and I'll start tweaking the page and make it ready for the actual > coding. > > Also, Christian, you mentioned something about the USF homepage and > asked if anyone is interested in helping out... I am. > > ~Golddragongt~ > > > http://www.matroska.org > > http://www.matroska.org From ishikawa at life-jp.net Sun Mar 9 10:20:00 2003 From: ishikawa at life-jp.net (Ayaka Ishikawa) Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 18:20:00 +0900 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: On the layout In-Reply-To: <004401c2e5a5$5568eee0$6601a8c0@marlena> References: <004401c2e5a5$5568eee0$6601a8c0@marlena> Message-ID: <20030309092005.87053.qmail@smx05.admiral.ne.jp> Hi > I checked the layout and it sure got nicer since the last version. Thanks > for putting the sample logo on the green bar, at least now I know what the > dimensions of the logo should be. Speaking of which, per Christian's > request, I am reworking Ayaka's logo, is that OK with him? Did he sign up > for this list? The reason I am asking is because sometimes people don't like > if someone else is playing with their design. It's no problem. please use my logo ideas freely. http://www.matroska.org From steve.lhomme at free.fr Sun Mar 9 11:02:22 2003 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 11:02:22 +0100 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: On the layout In-Reply-To: <105.29c535f2.2b9b6a41@cs.com> References: <105.29c535f2.2b9b6a41@cs.com> Message-ID: <3E6B112E.6080906@free.fr> Golddragongt at cs.com wrote: > Hey, > > I finally did update the sample webpage ( > http://www28.brinkster.com/golddragongt/sample.html ). Comments? Give me a go > ahead, and I'll start tweaking the page and make it ready for the actual > coding. It looks good. But I have one complain. Why don't you use the whole screen size ? http://www.matroska.org From Golddragongt at cs.com Sun Mar 9 17:36:57 2003 From: Golddragongt at cs.com (Golddragongt at cs.com) Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 11:36:57 EST Subject: [matroska-general] Re: On the layout Message-ID: <7f.33d5b3d3.2b9cc7a9@cs.com> "It looks good. But I have one complain. Why don't you use the whole screen size ?" The problem with using the whole screen size is that at different screen resolutions, or specifically, lower resolutions, the page can get messed up. Let me clarify. When I use the whole screen size, I have to specify the width of things in percentages. This works fine, at a certain resolution (I use 1024 x 768, but usually my pages look okay at higher resolutions). But at a lower resolution, things screw up. The tables, text, and links get scrunched up and broken up. I find only two good ways of dealing with layout: no real layout or pixels. Obviously, we want some kind of layout, so I specify the pixel width of things. I design it for the most common client, a client with 800x600 resolution. If you view it in that resolution, you should see the page fit the screen perfectly... I hope my explanation was good. http://www.matroska.org From chris at matroska.org Mon Mar 10 22:53:57 2003 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 22:53:57 +0100 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Help with website In-Reply-To: <000d01c2e732$e1c3c5c0$c800a8c0@nitrogen> References: <1047184372.3e6ac3f4c6109@webmail.telus.net> <3E6CA8AB.1080702@matroska.org> <000d01c2e732$e1c3c5c0$c800a8c0@nitrogen> Message-ID: <3E6D0975.9040706@matroska.org> Hi Jay, we can use any help we can get, as we have to make 4 websites alltogether : http://matroska.org ( assigned : Golddragon ) http://mpc.corecodec.org ( assigned : phase ) http://usf.corecodec.org ( assigned : none ) htttp://ebml.sourceforge.net ( assigned : none ) and logos also matroska ( assigned : Marlena, Ayaka ) MPC ( assigned : David ) USF ( assigned : none ) EBML : not necessary and maybe soon websites and logos for these new projects also : CCI ( Core Codec Interface ) CoreYuv You see ? Plenty of work :) !! Welcome again Jay, please browse the existing websites and tell me what site you'd like to work on first. Also please fire up your newsreader, point your newsserver to news://news.gmane.org and subscribe to gmane.comp.multimedia.matroska.general . You will find a couple of threads there about recent logo and site layouts, any comments are well appreciated. Regards Christian Jay M wrote: >i assumed it wasnt, dont want money.. just something to do =-D > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Christian HJ Wiesner" >To: >Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 8:00 AM >Subject: Re: > > > > >>Jason, >> >>thanks for your offer, but please allow me to check first if you are >>aware that this is NOT a paid job ? Sorry for the inconvenience, but we >>received some requests with questionary intentions, so i have to check >>that first. >> >>Regards Christian >> >>maliqua at telus.net wrote: >> >> >> >>>you want a face lift for your website? >>> >>>can i do it? >>> >>>im a former webdesign who moved to a networking job, and havent really >>> >>> >got any > > >>>web pages to do, wouldnt mind having something to keep me busy,,.... >>> >>>i make great interfaces and stuff, you give me the info i can make it >>> >>> >look good > > >>>(but i really suck @ writing things up and making them sound neet) >>> >>>in short i would love to design your site, >>> >>>regards >>>Jason Meech >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > > > http://www.matroska.org From steve.lhomme at free.fr Tue Mar 11 17:17:04 2003 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 17:17:04 +0100 (CET) Subject: [matroska-general] Comments on MPCF Message-ID: <1047399424.3e6e0c00da0b3@imp.free.fr> It seems you were discussing about the new Mplayer-exclusive container format called MPCF. Should we take lots of time convincing them that it's not necessary to make it because Matroska does what they want ? We tried to, with no success. My opinion is that we should wait until they finish their specs, and then comment the format. This is exactly what I would have like people working on other containers do on Matroska. It didn't happen (even though we tried to ask everyone). But I think that's how things should be done. After all, when you publish a scientific paper, it is first reviewed and commented by peer scientifics before being published. And so far that has worked great for science. Why not for open multimedia projects ? (maybe a lack of culture for technical things and contradiction) Well, now you have my opinion. I don't see a reason to spend more time on their format while we have so many things to do. So far nothing I've seen mentioned on their project wasn't already taken in account in matroska. When they think their format is OK and ready to be published/commented we may spend some more time on it. If they aren't even open to comments, why bother doing some ?! Maybe we could improve Matroska from ideas in their format. We'll see... http://www.matroska.org From chris at matroska.org Tue Mar 11 17:21:45 2003 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 17:21:45 +0100 Subject: [matroska-general] Implement support for mplayer's MPCF container format into matroska parser ? Message-ID: <3E6E0D19.7020902@matroska.org> Gentlemen, this has been discussed on the IRC channel a couple of minutes ago, and i put it for discussion : As you may have heard our specification was put under severe critizism from some core developers of the mplayer player for Linux environments. They were calling our project 'crap' and 'bloated' and us, the developers and people behind it, are 'stupid DirectShow kiddies' . When i was pointed to these threads on their mailing list ( http://mplayerhq.hu/pipermail/mplayer-dev-eng/ ) i completely overreacted and sent some pretty harsh and unnecessary comments back to their list. I apologized for that later, and it also turned out as if they changed their minds a little bit about our project, while still considering it much to bloated and poweful for a container format. Recently it became silent about their own container, named 'MPCF' ( MPlayer Container Format ), but now discussion was raised again and they are starting implementation. In fact, their basic structure seems so much similar to ours in some points, but simply stripped from all the more powerful stuff like chapters, menues, etc , i still have to ask myself where the big need is to make it at all, but this is a free world and of course they are completely free to do whatever they want to do. We dont like Xiph people questioning matroska, and so we should question their goals. Now, as a result of this it may happen that a certain 'polarisation' may occur between Linux and Windows users, and this is pretty bad for the whole opensource movement IMHO. They needed a DirectShow parser to make sure their container could be played on Windows, and probably would even find someone doing it for them in the end, but they themselves dont see this being a necessity. Again, this is very dangerous for the opensource world IMHO. Until recently everbody was using good old AVI, QT or MP4. Now we could see a fork between the two worlds, leading to incompatibility and frustration for the users. So i was asking myself if we should maybe consider to give them the 'hand of peace' , trying to smooth out the raging waves , for example by offering them to support their format in our DirectShow parser ? You may think this is a completely stupid thing to do, but here are my reasons : 1. Our first and only motivation, in any case, should be the users of any of the new containers. They dont know about the 'rumbling' behind the scenes, and they dont deserve to be the victims of that anyway. By supporting MPCF in our parser we could make their life much easier, by ensuring the container can be played fine on Windows. 2. By offering help to the mplayer people for the DirectShow playback we would gain sympathy from some of the MPFC developers ( not all of them for sure ), but especially from the mplayer/mencoder users. This would also help a lot to break down 'mental barriers' and to avoid a 'drifting apart' from Windows and Linux world 3. As a sideeffect we could hopefully convince them to reuse at least a few of the things we introduce together with matroska, such as our codec ID list, ( 16 bytes wont hurt them i hope ), the UCI ( or whatever it will be called ) codec interface, our chapters/control tracks ( their users surely will request this ) and maybe even our menuing and tagging system. @ myFUN, do you think this was feasible, to have our parser handle 2 different formats ? Please note we will NOT want to make this a separate filter, as we certainly dont want to pay for the hosting of the parser of another container, and also nobody can ask us to create their parser filter without some advantage for us. I sincerely hope it should be possible to implement MPCF playback ( given the really simple structure they have ) into our parser filter with only a very small file size increase. Of course, they could always take our sources, strip all the matroska content of and compile their own filter ... thats the nature of opensource, and fine with me. What is your opinion on this ? Regards Christian http://www.matroska.org From steve.lhomme at free.fr Tue Mar 11 17:36:18 2003 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 17:36:18 +0100 (CET) Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Implement support for mplayer's MPCF container format into matroska parser ? In-Reply-To: <3E6E0D19.7020902@matroska.org> References: <3E6E0D19.7020902@matroska.org> Message-ID: <1047400578.3e6e10822ae92@imp.free.fr> En r?ponse ? Christian HJ Wiesner : > We dont like Xiph people questioning matroska, and so we should question > their goals. I *do* like anyone comment the format ! But if the comments are "we were here before so shut up" of course it's totally stupid and useless. > Now, as a result of this it may happen that a certain 'polarisation' may > occur between Linux and Windows users, and this is pretty bad for the Well, maybe they don't code on Windows but we code on Linux. So I don't see a problem if they want to stay in their own world. > whole opensource movement IMHO. They needed a DirectShow parser to make > sure their container could be played on Windows, and probably would even > find someone doing it for them in the end, but they themselves dont see Yeah, I can foresee a lot of fun if they insult the coder who want to help them all the time... > this being a necessity. Again, this is very dangerous for the opensource > world IMHO. Until recently everbody was using good old AVI, QT or MP4. It's not dangerous for open source. It may be dangerous for us, maybe. As Xiph would say, we were there first :D > So i was asking myself if we should maybe consider to give them the > 'hand of peace' , trying to smooth out the raging waves , for example by > offering them to support their format in our DirectShow parser ? I can predict no success in trying this. But I'm not against it. > 1. Our first and only motivation, in any case, should be the users of > any of the new containers. They dont know about the 'rumbling' behind > the scenes, and they dont deserve to be the victims of that anyway. By > supporting MPCF in our parser we could make their life much easier, by > ensuring the container can be played fine on Windows. Yes why not. But we don't really need to work with them to make a DSF for them. The problem I can is : we don't have the resources to help them ! > 2. By offering help to the mplayer people for the DirectShow playback we > would gain sympathy from some of the MPFC developers ( not all of them > for sure ), but especially from the mplayer/mencoder users. This would > also help a lot to break down 'mental barriers' and to avoid a 'drifting > apart' from Windows and Linux world Ever been bitten by a dog you want to carress ? Do you think we can come with a deal : we support your format, you support ours ? One of them being a scaled down cousin of the other... > 3. As a sideeffect we could hopefully convince them to reuse at least a > few of the things we introduce together with matroska, such as our codec > ID list, ( 16 bytes wont hurt them i hope ), the UCI ( or whatever it > will be called ) codec interface, our chapters/control tracks ( their > users surely will request this ) and maybe even our menuing and tagging > system. That would be a wise idea, yes. Especially because it would open the door to different codec API on different OS that deal we the same basic data. http://www.matroska.org From maliqua at planet.eon.net Wed Mar 12 10:39:33 2003 From: maliqua at planet.eon.net (Maliqua) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 02:39:33 -0700 Subject: [matroska-general] Howdy Message-ID: Hi, im the guy that volounteered to do your other webstuff for ya, i noticed that the website i picked wasnt noted here as being a need to be done right away, and another that wasnt assigned is.. ill do which ever you want just should i take the existing text and just build a new page around that content, or do i have to reword stuff? just give me an idea of what to do, and ill try to get it all done soon for ya =-D http://www.matroska.org From chris at matroska.org Wed Mar 12 11:27:50 2003 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 11:27:50 +0100 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Howdy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E6F0BA6.5000002@matroska.org> Hi Maliqua, finally somebody who's not afraid to use a mailing list ;) ... Well, you were asking me via email if you could redesign the webpage for EBML ... well, i would assume that the USF page was the more important to care about, but on the other hand this page already *HAS* a basic design made by Blacksun, and i dont know how we will react if we put his design to the waste :P ... LOL While EBML is a part ( i.e. the backbone ) of matroska without having a ML of its own, and all stuff regarding EBML should be discussed here, note there is a specific ML for USF, being usf-devel at freelists.org . The main people for USF are Ludovic 'Blacksun' Vialle and Christophe 'Toff' Paris, and they are also the people in charge if it comes to decisions about USF's new webdesign. I am copying the USF-devel list on this email, and i hope they will reply with a comment to the list how they feel about a new, better webdesign. If they dont want you to work on that, consider the EBML page as being assigned to you ;) ! Again, welcome to the team and stay tuned for Blacksun's and Toff's comments about you making a new webdesing for USF. Regards Christian Maliqua wrote: >Hi, im the guy that volounteered to do your other webstuff for ya, >i noticed that the website i picked wasnt noted here as being a need to be >done right away, and another that wasnt assigned is.. > >ill do which ever you want >just should i take the existing text and just build a new page around that >content, or do i have to reword stuff? > > >just give me an idea of what to do, and ill try to get it all done soon for >ya =-D > > > > >http://www.matroska.org > > > > http://www.matroska.org From steve.lhomme at free.fr Wed Mar 12 12:25:21 2003 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 12:25:21 +0100 (CET) Subject: [matroska-general] Specs update Message-ID: <1047468321.3e6f19213907e@imp.free.fr> I've updated the specs yesterday. Here are the additions/changes : - new Replay Gain elements in the Track entry and chapter entry - removed the audio subtrack system (not needed at all, this is a codec feature) - changed the ID of TrackName (2 bytes instead of 3) (I think it wasn't used or the moment) The definition of GlobalPeak and GlobalGain will be changed ASAP (not very clear/accurate now). http://www.matroska.org From Paul at msn.com Wed Mar 12 17:17:40 2003 From: Paul at msn.com (Pamel) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 10:17:40 -0600 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Specs update References: <1047468321.3e6f19213907e@imp.free.fr> Message-ID: Could we get a way to virtually define groups of tracks? "Steve Lhomme" wrote ... > > I've updated the specs yesterday. Here are the additions/changes : > > - new Replay Gain elements in the Track entry and chapter entry > - removed the audio subtrack system (not needed at all, this is a codec feature) > - changed the ID of TrackName (2 bytes instead of 3) (I think it wasn't used or > the moment) > > The definition of GlobalPeak and GlobalGain will be changed ASAP (not very > clear/accurate now). > http://www.matroska.org > > http://www.matroska.org From steve.lhomme at free.fr Wed Mar 12 17:30:03 2003 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 17:30:03 +0100 (CET) Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Specs update In-Reply-To: References: <1047468321.3e6f19213907e@imp.free.fr> Message-ID: <1047486603.3e6f608ba2641@imp.free.fr> En r?ponse ? Pamel : > Could we get a way to virtually define groups of tracks? > > "Steve Lhomme" wrote ... > > > > I've updated the specs yesterday. Here are the additions/changes : > > > > - removed the audio subtrack system (not needed at all, this is a > codec feature) You mean like adding a subtrack system ? Doh ! :) What would be the use ? http://www.matroska.org From Paul at msn.com Thu Mar 13 05:49:46 2003 From: Paul at msn.com (Pamel) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 22:49:46 -0600 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Specs update References: <1047468321.3e6f19213907e@imp.free.fr> <1047486603.3e6f608ba2641@imp.free.fr> Message-ID: "Steve Lhomme" wrote > En r?ponse ? Pamel : > > > Could we get a way to virtually define groups of tracks? > > You mean like adding a subtrack system ? > Doh ! > :) Goodness no. I just mean a simple way to virtualy group tracks together. Just an element where you have a name and a set of track numbers. Then you could select that virtual grouping and the player would autoselect the tracks listed for playing. It wouldn't change the structure of the file at all, and a track could be used in more than one group. > What would be the use ? Example 1: A group of tracks labelled English, French, and Directors commentary. You select English and it auto selects the main video , English audio, and English subtitles track. Whether or not the subtitles are displayed initially is by the preferences in the player. You select French and the main video, English audio, and French subtitles track are selected. Whether or not the subtitles are displayed initially is by the preferences in the player. You select Directors commentary, and the main video, Directors audio, and Directors subtitles track are all selected.... It would make it very easy to select a grouping of video, audio, subtitles, etc, without defining something so complicated as a menuing system. Example 2: You store all 5 music videos made by a band in a Matroska file. All videos were encoded using different codecs, so they can't be in the same tracks using chapters. So, that is 5 video, and 5 audio streams. It would be nice to be able to select the song from a list of 5 items to autoselect the video and audio tracks for that song. Pamel BTW, I've never been into downloading music, but I recently downloaded a large number of classical and black-gospel songs (think public domain). And most of them have the track number and the name of the song for the file name. So, I have 10 files that begin with "01" at the beginning of the directory, and I can't tell by looking at the filenames who the artist (Mozart? Chopin?) is, or what album it is from. Terribly irritating. I can't wait until I just can just get a whole album in a single Matroska file. http://www.matroska.org From steve.lhomme at free.fr Wed Mar 12 17:24:21 2003 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 17:24:21 +0100 (CET) Subject: [matroska-general] Audio meta informations Message-ID: <1047486261.3e6f5f354cae8@imp.free.fr> I've posted a message on HydrogenAudio asking for comments on the informations that should be contained in a matroska file to cover all the tags used in APE and ID3. http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/show.php/act/ST/f/1/t/7383 http://www.matroska.org From steve.lhomme at free.fr Wed Mar 12 17:59:34 2003 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 17:59:34 +0100 (CET) Subject: [matroska-general] For our Linux heads : Stow Message-ID: <1047488374.3e6f67766b6b7@imp.free.fr> http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-stow/?ca=dgr-lnxw09STOW "This article is about Stow, a software installation management utility for Linux that offers a number of advantages over the tried-and-true Red Hat and Debian package management systems. With Stow, you can package applications in standard tar files and keep application binaries logically arranged for easy access." http://www.matroska.org From steve.lhomme at free.fr Thu Mar 13 09:55:33 2003 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 09:55:33 +0100 (CET) Subject: [matroska-general] Merge Track Info & Chapter Info Message-ID: <1047545733.3e7047850c5f2@imp.free.fr> Hi, Yesterday I was wondering if it would be worth to merge some informations that are located in the Track entry and some in the Chapter entry. The first examples are the replay gain and the ISRC code. It can be stored at 2 different places in the container. That means there is a possibility of having one wrong. Which one should be used in that case ? This is an impossible situation. So I suggest to store these elements in the Chapter *only*. The drawback is that if you want to use this feature for a very basic audio file, you will have to add a Chapter entry to your file. But I don't think it's really a problem. It's just one more requirement for audio players (handle Chapters even though there is only one). Any comment or opposition ? http://www.matroska.org From steve.lhomme at free.fr Thu Mar 13 10:00:30 2003 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 10:00:30 +0100 (CET) Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Merge Track Info & Chapter Info In-Reply-To: <1047545733.3e7047850c5f2@imp.free.fr> References: <1047545733.3e7047850c5f2@imp.free.fr> Message-ID: <1047546030.3e7048ae2d548@imp.free.fr> En r?ponse ? Steve Lhomme : > This is an impossible situation. So I suggest to store these elements in > the Chapter *only*. We may change the name of Chapters to Partition as it s really what it does. You have a whole A/V stream that is cut in chapters/partitions (that can be overlapping). The problem with Chapters is that it sound too much DVD. But in our case it's more general than that (it also corresponds to audio track/index on an audio CD). What do you think ? http://www.matroska.org From steve.lhomme at free.fr Thu Mar 13 10:33:20 2003 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 10:33:20 +0100 (CET) Subject: [matroska-general] H.264 updates Message-ID: <1047548000.3e705060f36d3@imp.free.fr> We have investigated a bit lately on the H.264 video codec. It's a modern (slow) codec. So it uses new features that could/should make their way in the container. So we had to pay attention. One of the main features it that it can store one video frame in different "packets" of data, each having its own priority. So it was currently impossible to store in matroska this way. The result of our brainstorming has come to a good result. We *do* can store it nicely in matroska, provided we make these additions to the specs : - a BlockGroup can contain many Block as long as they all have the same timecode - 3 bits in the Block head will be allocated to the Block priority (that makes 8 possible values, I hope it's enough for H.264). As you can see it doesn't break anything in the current specs and make it very clean. I think that's a good sign on the matroska design quality :D More on this subject can be foud here : http://www.corecodec.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=291 http://www.matroska.org From Paul at msn.com Thu Mar 13 16:25:06 2003 From: Paul at msn.com (Pamel) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 09:25:06 -0600 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: H.264 updates References: <1047548000.3e705060f36d3@imp.free.fr> Message-ID: "Steve Lhomme" wrote > The result of our brainstorming has come to a good result. We *do* can store it > nicely in matroska, provided we make these additions to the specs : > - a BlockGroup can contain many Block as long as they all have the same timecode > - 3 bits in the Block head will be allocated to the Block priority (that makes 8 > possible values, I hope it's enough for H.264). You would need a minimum of 4 bits to cover the defined categories, and 8 bits to have what they have. (See Table below. I think that you should consider doing a variation on idea 2. Keep the Block structure the same. But then add another element that included an 8bit category setting. This would save a full byte/block in 99.99999999% of cases until H.264 actually starts being used in a few years. Store the highest priority NALU in a regular block too, as you can't drop those anyway. And then store all other category blocks in (BlockNALU's?), setting the category byte appropriately. That way you would still save space, even when storing H.264, and the streamer would automatically know that it CAN NOT drop a regular block, but it could drop a (BlockNALU?) starting at the lowest priority. Table 7-1 NAL Unit Type Codes "Value of nal_unit_type" "Content of NAL unit" "Category" 0x0 Reserved for external use 0x1 Coded slice 4, 5, 6 0x2 Coded data partition A (DPA) 4 0x3 Coded data partition B (DPB) 5 0x4 Coded data partition C (DPC) 6 0x5 Coded slice of an IDR picture 4, 5 0x6 Supplemental Enhancement Information (SEI) 7 0x7 Sequence Parameter Set (SPS) 0 0x8 Picture Parameter Set (PPS) 1 0x9 Picture Delimiter (PD) 8 0xA Filler Data (FD) 9 0xB 0x17 Reserved 0x18 0x1F For external use Pamel http://www.matroska.org From steve.lhomme at free.fr Thu Mar 13 16:54:22 2003 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 16:54:22 +0100 (CET) Subject: [matroska-general] Re: H.264 updates In-Reply-To: References: <1047548000.3e705060f36d3@imp.free.fr> Message-ID: <1047570862.3e70a9ae4d7b3@imp.free.fr> En r?ponse ? Pamel : > You would need a minimum of 4 bits to cover the defined categories, and > 8 bits to have what they have. > (See Table below. See my comment below. > I think that you should consider doing a variation on idea 2. Keep > the > Block structure the same. But then add another element that included > an > 8bit category setting. This would save a full byte/block in > 99.99999999% of > cases until H.264 actually starts being used in a few years. Store > the > highest priority NALU in a regular block too, as you can't drop those > anyway. And then store all other category blocks in (BlockNALU's?), > setting > the category byte appropriately. > > That way you would still save space, even when storing H.264, and the > streamer would automatically know that it CAN NOT drop a regular block, > but it could drop a (BlockNALU?) starting at the lowest priority. It's not as simple as this. If you add many Blocks to a BlockGroup you have no way of knowing which priority is associated to which Block. So I don't think it's such a good option. As for CRC, the order might be important. But I don't like too much that the order of elements become sensitive. That's why I have avoided making the CRC code so far. > Table 7-1 NAL Unit Type Codes > "Value of nal_unit_type" > "Content of NAL unit" > "Category" > > 0x0 > Reserved for external use > > 0x1 > Coded slice > 4, 5, 6 > > .... > > 0xB 0x17 > Reserved > > 0x18 0x1F > For external use OK, that makes 5 bits (0x00 to 0x1F). That leaves 1 free/unused/reserved in the Block. And we handle all cases covered by H.264 (the most complex big codec of the coming years) in a cleaner way, even the cases not covered by their specs. http://www.matroska.org From chris at matroska.org Thu Mar 13 18:13:30 2003 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 18:13:30 +0100 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: H.264 updates In-Reply-To: <1047570862.3e70a9ae4d7b3@imp.free.fr> References: <1047548000.3e705060f36d3@imp.free.fr> <1047570862.3e70a9ae4d7b3@imp.free.fr> Message-ID: <3E70BC3A.9000507@matroska.org> To: matroska-general at freelists.org CC: hdot264-devel at lists.sf.net Steve Lhomme wrote: >OK, that makes 5 bits (0x00 to 0x1F). That leaves 1 free/unused/reserved in the >Block. And we handle all cases covered by H.264 (the most complex big codec of >the coming years) in a cleaner way, even the cases not covered by their specs. >http://www.matroska.org > I am backing up the idea to use 5 of the spare 6 bits we have to be able to support h.264 in a neat way .... after all, if i am not mistaken we could ( in principal ) redefine the use of those 6 bits for other codecs, if really necessary ? Sure, its not the best way to go to make such specific definitions for every codec, but h.264 will be used for the next 4 - 6 years i guess, and then we have to think about matroska 2 already ;) .... Christian BTW : why was this thread started in matroska-general instead of matroska-devel ? Full threads : http://news.gmane.org/thread.php?group=gmane.comp.multimedia.matroska.general http://news.gmane.org/thread.php?group=gmane.comp.multimedia.matroska.devel http://www.matroska.org From steve.lhomme at free.fr Thu Mar 13 19:51:44 2003 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 19:51:44 +0100 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: H.264 updates In-Reply-To: <3E70BC3A.9000507@matroska.org> References: <1047548000.3e705060f36d3@imp.free.fr> <1047570862.3e70a9ae4d7b3@imp.free.fr> <3E70BC3A.9000507@matroska.org> Message-ID: <3E70D340.6010308@free.fr> Christian HJ Wiesner wrote: > To: matroska-general at freelists.org > CC: hdot264-devel at lists.sf.net > > Steve Lhomme wrote: > > >>OK, that makes 5 bits (0x00 to 0x1F). That leaves 1 free/unused/reserved in the >>Block. And we handle all cases covered by H.264 (the most complex big codec of >>the coming years) in a cleaner way, even the cases not covered by their specs. >>http://www.matroska.org >> > > I am backing up the idea to use 5 of the spare 6 bits we have to be able > to support h.264 in a neat way .... after all, if i am not mistaken we > could ( in principal ) redefine the use of those 6 bits for other > codecs, if really necessary ? Sure, its not the best way to go to make > such specific definitions for every codec, but h.264 will be used for > the next 4 - 6 years i guess, and then we have to think about matroska 2 > already ;) .... Yes, actually if there ever need to be a non-backward-compatible matroska 2 it will be because of the Block element. For sure having only 1 bit left for expansion is a bit limited :( Also 0x0B to 0x1F is reserved. So if we need 1 more bit before H.264, we have another option/bit. > Christian > > BTW : why was this thread started in matroska-general instead of > matroska-devel ? That was my idea. As it's more a general discussion. But well, there is no written rule. > Full threads : > > http://news.gmane.org/thread.php?group=gmane.comp.multimedia.matroska.general > http://news.gmane.org/thread.php?group=gmane.comp.multimedia.matroska.devel http://www.matroska.org From Paul at msn.com Fri Mar 14 04:52:36 2003 From: Paul at msn.com (Pamel) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 21:52:36 -0600 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: H.264 updates References: <1047548000.3e705060f36d3@imp.free.fr> <1047570862.3e70a9ae4d7b3@imp.free.fr> Message-ID: "Steve Lhomme" wrote > En r?ponse ? Pamel : > > That way you would still save space, even when storing H.264, and the > > streamer would automatically know that it CAN NOT drop a regular block, > > but it could drop a (BlockNALU?) starting at the lowest priority. > > It's not as simple as this. If you add many Blocks to a BlockGroup you have no > way of knowing which priority is associated to which Block. So I don't think > it's such a good option. I don't think I understand you. I was saying to keep the Block as it is now, and then have another element exactly like the Block, but with a an 8bit field for to identify the (either nal_unit_type or Category or priority) and name it something like (BlockStreaming or BlockNALU). Because in every case for the next several years you will only use the Block how it is now. And the high priority units for H.264 could be stored in a regular Block, but the low priority units could be stored in a (BlockStreaming or BlockNALU), where the (either nal_unit_type or Category or priority) is stored in the extra 8bit field. If the 8bit field is stored within the (BlockStreaming or BlockNALU), then how would you "have no way of knowing which priority is associated to which Block"? > OK, that makes 5 bits (0x00 to 0x1F). That leaves 1 free/unused/reserved in the > Block. And we handle all cases covered by H.264 (the most complex big codec of > the coming years) in a cleaner way, even the cases not covered by their specs. Maybe you should allow for a full byte of data in BlockNALU because the specs have not yet been set in stone, and that is what they allow for. Personally I'm not even convinced that it is even worthwhile to do this. Matroska itself doesn't NEED to have all of the NALU's stored in seperate blocks because you can store them all within one block. That is the way it was designed. The only reason that we have heard to break down the NALU's in Matroska, is to assist in streaming. But none of us can even find that this is true in the H.264 specs. I think that before we go redesigning the core data structure of Matroska, we should probably at least confirm that we have heard correctly. What if someone got ahold of charact3r, the Hdot264.sf.net project admin, and asked him about it. He would probably have the best idea of what NALU's are really used for and what would be the best way to support them in Matroska. I would hate to needlessly waste 5bits on every block in a Matroska file. Pamel http://www.matroska.org From steve.lhomme at free.fr Fri Mar 14 09:55:42 2003 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 09:55:42 +0100 (CET) Subject: [matroska-general] Re: H.264 updates In-Reply-To: References: <1047548000.3e705060f36d3@imp.free.fr> <1047570862.3e70a9ae4d7b3@imp.free.fr> Message-ID: <1047632142.3e71990e3473c@imp.free.fr> En r?ponse ? Pamel : > I don't think I understand you. I was saying to keep the Block as it > is > now, and then have another element exactly like the Block, but with a > an > 8bit field for to identify the (either nal_unit_type or Category or > priority) and name it something like (BlockStreaming or BlockNALU). That's simply impossible. Because that would mean a player should support the normal Block and the BlockNALU that do exactly the same. We are not going to add a new block system (and add backward incompatibility) everytime a new codec is out :( > Because > in every case for the next several years you will only use the Block how > it > is now. And the high priority units for H.264 could be stored in a > regular > Block, but the low priority units could be stored in a (BlockStreaming Ah OK, you want to put the lower priorities in another element... Well then this idea is valuable, because it doesn't break backward compatibility. The decision point is : do we need more than 1 bit left or not ? > > OK, that makes 5 bits (0x00 to 0x1F). That leaves 1 > free/unused/reserved > in the > > Block. And we handle all cases covered by H.264 (the most complex > big > codec of > > the coming years) in a cleaner way, even the cases not covered by > their > specs. > > Maybe you should allow for a full byte of data in BlockNALU because > the > specs have not yet been set in stone, and that is what they allow for. You mean adding 8 bits to the BlockNALU (compared to the normal Block) ? That could be a good option if we separate them. BTW, the name could be BlockPeel as it looks like the peeling system in ODD Vorbis. That allows the container level (regardless of the codec used) to remove informations to save space. That makes me think that the hinter tool we'll have to make (to make perfect size files for Mode 2 CDs) could make use of this feature too :) > Personally I'm not even convinced that it is even worthwhile to do > this. > Matroska itself doesn't NEED to have all of the NALU's stored in > seperate > blocks because you can store them all within one block. That is the way > it > was designed. The only reason that we have heard to break down the > NALU's > in Matroska, is to assist in streaming. But none of us can even find > that this is true in the H.264 specs. Well, this system is obviously for streaming and network congestion (it will be a long time until it is implemented and really efficient). And if we can have matroska work well in this area too (after all that's the first container to support it ;) let's go for it. It has no cost and potential benefits. > I think that before we go redesigning the core data structure of > Matroska, > we should probably at least confirm that we have heard correctly. What > if > someone got ahold of charact3r, the Hdot264.sf.net project admin, and > asked > him about it. He would probably have the best idea of what NALU's are > really used for and what would be the best way to support them in > Matroska. > I would hate to needlessly waste 5bits on every block in a Matroska > file. I think your BlockPeel system is much nicer than the use of 5 valuable bits (for the future). Systems that won't care about priorities, will just forget this information. And adding an octet to the Block and call it BlockPeel is not hard and keep many bits left too. http://www.matroska.org From steve.lhomme at free.fr Fri Mar 14 16:43:39 2003 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 16:43:39 +0100 (CET) Subject: [matroska-general] Re: H.264 updates In-Reply-To: <1047632142.3e71990e3473c@imp.free.fr> References: <1047548000.3e705060f36d3@imp.free.fr> <1047570862.3e70a9ae4d7b3@imp.free.fr> <1047632142.3e71990e3473c@imp.free.fr> Message-ID: <1047656619.3e71f8ab33451@imp.free.fr> According to this page : http://www.videolocus.com/Technology/tutorial.htm H.264 is expected to be freezed soon. So I think the specs won't change much. Anyway before proceeding to definitive application in the specs (I'll go back to the previous bits/Block system), we *have to* contact some H.264 developpers or designers to make sure it is used/needed/freezed. I think we'll go with the normal Block and the BlockPeel as proposed by Pamel. http://www.matroska.org From spyder at wiesneronline.net Fri Mar 14 19:59:02 2003 From: spyder at wiesneronline.net (John Cannon) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 12:59:02 -0600 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: H.264 updates References: <1047548000.3e705060f36d3@imp.free.fr> <1047570862.3e70a9ae4d7b3@imp.free.fr> <1047632142.3e71990e3473c@imp.free.fr> <1047656619.3e71f8ab33451@imp.free.fr> Message-ID: <000801c2ea5b$ca8f7d00$5a91be3f@johnc> Ask around on the Xvid ML. One of the hdot264 devs was asking them to join work on his project. According to mf, they may actually join forces ;) Spyder http://www.matroska.org From chris at matroska.org Fri Mar 14 10:31:34 2003 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 10:31:34 +0100 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: matroska : HTTP/RTP streaming server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E71A176.9070401@matroska.org> Hi Amit, thanks for you offer to help on this huge, challenging project. The HTTP/RTP streaming server team is currently two people, being How Tam and Henry Poon. Unfortunately i havent heard from any of them for a little while now, so i cant provide you with an update of what the actual project status is right now. I am copying both on this email, as well as the matroska-general ML, and i sincerely hope one of them comes back to me with a short update on if and what has been done so far. In any case, i gladly welcome you in our team and was adding your nickname to our sourceforge project a few minutes ago. I recommend you subscribe to our MLs first, you can find them on http://www.freelists.org , matroska-general at freelists.org , matroska-devel at freelists.org and matroska-cvs at freelists.org . Alternatively you may fire up your newsreader and point it to news.gmane.org , and subscribe to gmane.comp.multimedia.matroska.xxx , this NNTP interface to our mailing lists will allow you to read all the old mails and reply to the list also, pretty convenient. After some reading through the specs and the latest posts on the streaming server project, please drop me a short email, so we can decide where to start. Hopefully by then we will also have news from How Man and Henry . Best regards Christian Amit limaye wrote: >Hello Chris > i wud be interested in joining the team u can look up >my skillset on the sourceforge site > >-SIGTERM >amit > > > > > http://www.matroska.org From howman at yahoo.com Sat Mar 15 18:35:15 2003 From: howman at yahoo.com (How Tam) Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 09:35:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: [matroska-general] Re: matroska : HTTP/RTP streaming server In-Reply-To: <3E71A176.9070401@matroska.org> Message-ID: <20030315173515.28156.qmail@web40705.mail.yahoo.com> Chris, I am sorry to say that I am not able to continue participating in this project for a few months due to my other obligation. However, I would like to be updated with the latest developement about this project. Should I have available time, I would like to get back into this challenging project. How Man --- Christian HJ Wiesner wrote: > Hi Amit, > > thanks for you offer to help on this huge, > challenging project. > > The HTTP/RTP streaming server team is currently two > people, being How > Tam and Henry Poon. Unfortunately i havent heard > from any of them for a > little while now, so i cant provide you with an > update of what the > actual project status is right now. > > I am copying both on this email, as well as the > matroska-general ML, and > i sincerely hope one of them comes back to me with a > short update on if > and what has been done so far. > > In any case, i gladly welcome you in our team and > was adding your > nickname to our sourceforge project a few minutes > ago. I recommend you > subscribe to our MLs first, you can find them on > http://www.freelists.org , matroska-general at > freelists.org , > matroska-devel at freelists.org and matroska-cvs at > freelists.org . > Alternatively you may fire up your newsreader and > point it to > news.gmane.org , and subscribe to > gmane.comp.multimedia.matroska.xxx , > this NNTP interface to our mailing lists will allow > you to read all the > old mails and reply to the list also, pretty > convenient. > > After some reading through the specs and the latest > posts on the > streaming server project, please drop me a short > email, so we can decide > where to start. Hopefully by then we will also have > news from How Man > and Henry > . > Best regards > > Christian > > Amit limaye wrote: > > >Hello Chris > > i wud be interested in joining the > team u can look up > >my skillset on the sourceforge site > > > >-SIGTERM > >amit > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online http://webhosting.yahoo.com http://www.matroska.org From chris at matroska.org Sat Mar 15 19:21:41 2003 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 19:21:41 +0100 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: matroska : HTTP/RTP streaming server In-Reply-To: <20030315173515.28156.qmail@web40705.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030315173515.28156.qmail@web40705.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E736F35.4040709@matroska.org> How Tam wrote: >Chris, > >I am sorry to say that I am not able to continue >participating in this project for a few months due to >my other obligation. However, I would like to be >updated with the latest developement about this >project. Should I have available time, I would like >to get back into this challenging project. >How Man > Lo How Man, no problem, once you have your RLIs sorted you're welcome here any time. I'll drop you a message from time to time, so you're updated about the progress of the project. Henry, Amit, this makes one of you project leader of the streaming server if you're interested in accepting the job ? ;) .... Regards Christian http://www.matroska.org From chris at matroska.org Fri Mar 14 11:40:37 2003 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 11:40:37 +0100 Subject: [matroska-general] New Multimedia Playlist standard Message-ID: <3E71B1A5.3060500@matroska.org> http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?act=ST&f=20&t=7494&hl=&s=0e59fab3c4d48f9481f30674326996c6 Something to be supported in TCMP, and maybe even matroska ? Please send your replies to both lists Christian http://www.matroska.org From steve.lhomme at free.fr Fri Mar 14 11:46:28 2003 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 11:46:28 +0100 (CET) Subject: [matroska-general] Re: New Multimedia Playlist standard In-Reply-To: <3E71B1A5.3060500@matroska.org> References: <3E71B1A5.3060500@matroska.org> Message-ID: <1047638788.3e71b30464908@imp.free.fr> En r?ponse ? Christian HJ Wiesner : > http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?act=ST&f=20&t=7494&hl=&s=0e59fab3c4d48f9481f30674326996c6 > > Something to be supported in TCMP, and maybe even matroska ? > > Please send your replies to both lists That's good for TCMP (let's support it ASAP) ! Now for matroska there is no need as we want to include all kinds of relations inside the file. The MVP system seems to be good as a catalogue of files (well, a playlist ;). http://www.matroska.org From chris at matroska.org Fri Mar 14 12:21:36 2003 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 12:21:36 +0100 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: New Multimedia Playlist standard In-Reply-To: <1047638788.3e71b30464908@imp.free.fr> References: <3E71B1A5.3060500@matroska.org> <1047638788.3e71b30464908@imp.free.fr> Message-ID: <3E71BB40.9010206@matroska.org> Steve Lhomme wrote: >That's good for TCMP (let's support it ASAP) ! >Now for matroska there is no need as we want to include all kinds of relations >inside the file. The MVP system seems to be good as a catalogue of files (well, >a playlist ;). > Yes, but how could it be distributed with a media file, or better inside the same file ? Could we put it into the attachements ? Christian http://www.matroska.org From post at com.freelists.org Sun Mar 16 17:42:38 2003 From: post at com.freelists.org (postr) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 04:42:38 +1200 Subject: [matroska-general] Overture Account / PPC Account Message-ID: http://www.matroska.org From steve.lhomme at free.fr Thu Mar 20 12:03:49 2003 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 12:03:49 +0100 (CET) Subject: [matroska-general] H.264 stable & MP4 improved Message-ID: <1048158229.3e79a015b98cb@imp.free.fr> According to this post : http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=7643& MP4 The file format is also being enhanced to better support un-timed (static) meta-data, and to support MPEG-21. MPEG-21 support is targeted to enable the storage of a "Digital Item Declaration" with some or all of its resources in a single file. This allows MPEG-21 files to be compatible with other files in the family. H.264 The AVC | H.264 spec has received an enormous amount of scrutiny, which means it is very robust. Bitstreams are being exchanged in the Joint Video Team. Now that the spec is final, M4IF and others will start doing interop testing, a crucial part in attaining true interoperability. That means we can safely add Pamel's solution to the specs. Also I don't fully understand the improvements of MP4. Maybe it's like the file attachements we have (un-timed meta-data). Are they lurking the matroska development or what ? :D http://www.matroska.org From Paul at msn.com Fri Mar 21 05:25:14 2003 From: Paul at msn.com (Pamel) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 22:25:14 -0600 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: H.264 stable & MP4 improved References: <1048158229.3e79a015b98cb@imp.free.fr> Message-ID: "Steve Lhomme" wrote > That means we can safely add Pamel's solution to the specs. I would recommend getting some solid input first from someone that truly understands the specs before implementing any of my solutions. Pamel http://www.matroska.org From Marlena at mail.1000ad.net Thu Mar 20 17:04:16 2003 From: Marlena at mail.1000ad.net (Marlena Deren) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 10:04:16 -0600 Subject: [matroska-general] Ayaka's Logos Message-ID: <200303201004.AA169410716@mail.1000ad.net> Hi, I added couple new logos based on the two versions done by Ayaka. I did not do them in color especially since Steve is concerned with printing, although I can change that, obviously (don't like working too much with black and white alone :) ). Same old link: http://www.1000ad.net/marlena/matroskalogos.html I did not have time to finally do these designs, until last night, sorry for the delay. I don't really know what to think of it...although I think that Ayaka's logo should be used as he designed it. - Marlena http://www.matroska.org From steve.lhomme at free.fr Thu Mar 20 17:37:03 2003 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 17:37:03 +0100 (CET) Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Ayaka's Logos In-Reply-To: <200303201004.AA169410716@mail.1000ad.net> References: <200303201004.AA169410716@mail.1000ad.net> Message-ID: <1048178223.3e79ee2f28c9d@imp.free.fr> En r?ponse ? Marlena Deren : > > Hi, > > I added couple new logos based on the two versions done by Ayaka. I did > not do them in color especially since Steve is concerned with printing, > although I can change that, obviously (don't like working too much with > black and white alone :) ). > Same old link: http://www.1000ad.net/marlena/matroskalogos.html > I did not have time to finally do these designs, until last night, sorry > for the delay. > I don't really know what to think of it...although I think that Ayaka's > logo should be used as he designed it. Great ! I really like the diagonal ones (from top left to bottom right). The one I prefer the most is the bottom right one. It looks like a car logo :) And don't worry there is no real hurry. http://www.matroska.org From Liisachan at faireal.net Thu Mar 20 21:52:59 2003 From: Liisachan at faireal.net (Liisachan) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 05:52:59 +0900 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Ayaka's Logos In-Reply-To: <200303201004.AA169410716@mail.1000ad.net> References: <200303201004.AA169410716@mail.1000ad.net> Message-ID: <3E7A2A2B.10106@faireal.net> I mirrored your new logos too, this time I numbered them (#1-#9) just in case, so we can refer each of them easily. Personally I like the 2nd one of the previous logos (that greenish one). I also had upped SarreqTeryx's "flattened" version, which is simple and powerful http://www.faireal.net/matroska/matroska_logo - faireal (Liisachan) Marlena Deren wrote: >Hi, > >I added couple new logos based on the two versions done by Ayaka. I did not do them in color especially since Steve is concerned with printing, although I can change that, obviously (don't like working too much with black and white alone :) ). >Same old link: http://www.1000ad.net/marlena/matroskalogos.html >I did not have time to finally do these designs, until last night, sorry for the delay. >I don't really know what to think of it...although I think that Ayaka's logo should be used as he designed it. > >- Marlena >http://www.matroska.org > > > > > http://www.matroska.org From Liisachan at faireal.net Thu Mar 20 21:59:34 2003 From: Liisachan at faireal.net (Liisachan) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 05:59:34 +0900 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Ayaka's Logos In-Reply-To: <3E7A2A2B.10106@faireal.net> References: <200303201004.AA169410716@mail.1000ad.net> <3E7A2A2B.10106@faireal.net> Message-ID: <3E7A2BB6.7090906@faireal.net> PS. #2 would be nice for "Javatroska" :) Liisachan wrote: >I mirrored your new logos too, this time I numbered them (#1-#9) just >in case, so we can refer each of them easily. >Personally I like the 2nd one of the previous logos (that greenish one). >I also had upped SarreqTeryx's "flattened" version, which is simple and >powerful > >http://www.faireal.net/matroska/matroska_logo > >- faireal (Liisachan) > > > >Marlena Deren wrote: > > > >>Hi, >> >>I added couple new logos based on the two versions done by Ayaka. I did not do them in color especially since Steve is concerned with printing, although I can change that, obviously (don't like working too much with black and white alone :) ). >>Same old link: http://www.1000ad.net/marlena/matroskalogos.html >>I did not have time to finally do these designs, until last night, sorry for the delay. >>I don't really know what to think of it...although I think that Ayaka's logo should be used as he designed it. >> >>- Marlena >>http://www.matroska.org >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >http://www.matroska.org > > > > > http://www.matroska.org From marlena at 1000ad.net Fri Mar 21 02:09:55 2003 From: marlena at 1000ad.net (Marlena Deren) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 19:09:55 -0600 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Ayaka's Logos References: <200303201004.AA169410716@mail.1000ad.net> <3E7A2A2B.10106@faireal.net> Message-ID: <001901c2ef46$96817190$6501a8c0@marlena> Hey, Liisachan, I saw the "flat" version of the 2nd old logo last night, I like it. Sorry for merging everything into one graphic but it is faster for me to do one tag than nine, especially since I do it during a boring class :) Ayaka, do you have an opinion on anything I made with your design :)? I have to agree with Steve on the last logo, it does look like something that a car company would possibly use :) I was wondering, who came up with the name "Matroska" and were there any runners-up? Also, Matroska has an immediate association with anything Russian, but neither one of us people designing, came up with a Russian-related layouts, did you guys (Steve and Christian) have anything like that in mind in terms of layouts at the beginning of the project or no, since something like that would probably have people think that this project is done a by group of Russian developers? I am asking because the name on the current Matroska site is written in both ways and because I can think of a great site layout that would work with this idea ;) Speaking of layouts, how is that coming? Is the new member, Justin working on it as well or perhaps something else? -Marlena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Liisachan" To: Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 2:52 PM Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Ayaka's Logos > > I mirrored your new logos too, this time I numbered them (#1-#9) just > in case, so we can refer each of them easily. > Personally I like the 2nd one of the previous logos (that greenish one). > I also had upped SarreqTeryx's "flattened" version, which is simple and > powerful > > http://www.faireal.net/matroska/matroska_logo > > - faireal (Liisachan) > > > > Marlena Deren wrote: > > >Hi, > > > >I added couple new logos based on the two versions done by Ayaka. I did not do them in color especially since Steve is concerned with printing, although I can change that, obviously (don't like working too much with black and white alone :) ). > >Same old link: http://www.1000ad.net/marlena/matroskalogos.html > >I did not have time to finally do these designs, until last night, sorry for the delay. > >I don't really know what to think of it...although I think that Ayaka's logo should be used as he designed it. > > > >- Marlena > >http://www.matroska.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matroska.org > > http://www.matroska.org From Paul at msn.com Fri Mar 21 06:05:18 2003 From: Paul at msn.com (Pamel) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 23:05:18 -0600 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Ayaka's Logos References: <200303201004.AA169410716@mail.1000ad.net> <3E7A2A2B.10106@faireal.net> <001901c2ef46$96817190$6501a8c0@marlena> Message-ID: "Marlena Deren" wrote > Liisachan, I saw the "flat" version of the 2nd old logo last night, I like > it. I also like the one labelled '"flattened" (a.k.a. "cosmic")'. Could someone remake it with the outer circle not cut around that ball? Pamel http://www.matroska.org From marlena at 1000ad.net Fri Mar 21 07:15:33 2003 From: marlena at 1000ad.net (Marlena Deren) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 00:15:33 -0600 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Ayaka's Logos References: <200303201004.AA169410716@mail.1000ad.net> <3E7A2A2B.10106@faireal.net> <001901c2ef46$96817190$6501a8c0@marlena> Message-ID: <001d01c2ef71$48555510$6501a8c0@marlena> Done: http://icarus.uic.edu/~mbudar1/ Marlena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pamel" To: Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 11:05 PM Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Ayaka's Logos > I also like the one labelled '"flattened" (a.k.a. "cosmic")'. Could someone > remake it with the outer circle not cut around that ball? > > > Pamel > > > > http://www.matroska.org > > http://www.matroska.org From Liisachan at faireal.net Sat Mar 22 14:16:26 2003 From: Liisachan at faireal.net (Liisachan) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 22:16:26 +0900 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Ayaka's Logos In-Reply-To: <001d01c2ef71$48555510$6501a8c0@marlena> References: <200303201004.AA169410716@mail.1000ad.net> <3E7A2A2B.10106@faireal.net> <001901c2ef46$96817190$6501a8c0@marlena> <001d01c2ef71$48555510$6501a8c0@marlena> Message-ID: <3E7C622A.6060602@faireal.net> MIrrored. to All: Please observe this one could be a small icon too. i upped some samples: http://www.faireal.net/matroska/matroska_logo Marlena Deren wrote: >Done: http://icarus.uic.edu/~mbudar1/ > >Marlena > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Pamel" >To: >Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 11:05 PM >Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Ayaka's Logos > > > >>I also like the one labelled '"flattened" (a.k.a. "cosmic")'. Could >> >> >someone > > >>remake it with the outer circle not cut around that ball? >> >> >>Pamel >> >> >> >>http://www.matroska.org >> >> >> >> > >http://www.matroska.org > > > > > http://www.matroska.org From Paul at msn.com Sun Mar 23 09:07:01 2003 From: Paul at msn.com (Pamel) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 02:07:01 -0600 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Ayaka's Logos References: <200303201004.AA169410716@mail.1000ad.net> <3E7A2A2B.10106@faireal.net> <001901c2ef46$96817190$6501a8c0@marlena> <001d01c2ef71$48555510$6501a8c0@marlena> <3E7C622A.6060602@faireal.net> Message-ID: "Liisachan" wrote > to All: Please observe this one could be a small icon too. > i upped some samples: > http://www.faireal.net/matroska/matroska_logo I like the three listed "Possible Icons". Except the "Ayaka (middle-narrow)" needs to be stretched a little so that the image is square. A square image is much more efficient for icons. I also like "Marlena's New Logo #9" and "Marlena's New Logo #3", though I believe #3 would be to hard to do properly as an icon. (I prefer two color logos) I also like "Marlena's New Logo #6", and think it would be nice as only two colors, but I'm not sure. I would also like to see people trying to use actual russian versions of fonts for some of the logos to get a feel for what it would look like. (I would now, but I am tired and have a busy day tomorrow) BTW, Liisachan, thanks for putting up all of those logos. I was only about a day away from doing the same thing myself when you originally posted a link, but you have done a MUCH better job than I would have with updating all of them. Pamel http://www.matroska.org From Liisachan at faireal.net Sun Mar 23 13:28:09 2003 From: Liisachan at faireal.net (Liisachan) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 21:28:09 +0900 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Ayaka's Logos In-Reply-To: References: <200303201004.AA169410716@mail.1000ad.net> <3E7A2A2B.10106@faireal.net> <001901c2ef46$96817190$6501a8c0@marlena> <001d01c2ef71$48555510$6501a8c0@marlena> <3E7C622A.6060602@faireal.net> Message-ID: <3E7DA859.9040300@faireal.net> Pamel wrote: >"Liisachan" wrote > > >>to All: Please observe this one could be a small icon too. >>i upped some samples: >>http://www.faireal.net/matroska/matroska_logo >> >> > >I like the three listed "Possible Icons". Except the "Ayaka >(middle-narrow)" needs to be stretched a little so that the image is square. >A square image is much more efficient for icons. > >I also like "Marlena's New Logo #9" and "Marlena's New Logo #3", though I >believe #3 would be to hard to do properly as an icon. (I prefer two color >logos) I also like "Marlena's New Logo #6", and think it would be nice as >only two colors, but I'm not sure. I would also like to see people trying >to use actual russian versions of fonts for some of the logos to get a feel >for what it would look like. (I would now, but I am tired and have a busy >day tomorrow) > >BTW, Liisachan, thanks for putting up all of those logos. I was only about >a day away from doing the same thing myself when you originally posted a >link, but you have done a MUCH better job than I would have with updating >all of them. > the pleasure is mine :) > > >Pamel > > > >http://www.matroska.org > > > > > http://www.matroska.org From ishikawa at life-jp.net Sun Mar 23 11:21:36 2003 From: ishikawa at life-jp.net (Ayaka Ishikawa) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 19:21:36 +0900 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Ayaka's Logos In-Reply-To: <001901c2ef46$96817190$6501a8c0@marlena> References: <001901c2ef46$96817190$6501a8c0@marlena> Message-ID: <20030323102139.6513.qmail@smx05.admiral.ne.jp> Hi > Ayaka, do you have an opinion on anything I made with your design :)? > I have to agree with Steve on the last logo, it does look like something > that a car company would possibly use :) I agree with Steve on the logo too :) Personally, I like "Marlena's New Logo #1" in your logos. It's simple and match for meaning of Matroska. In my logos, I like "Ayaka 4". I made test picture for hardware use http://lysithea.tripod.co.jp/temp/mkv_dvd.jpg I could not made with Marlena's, because I could not find lager size of it. My logo looks too slim. It's need to increase White part. http://www.matroska.org From Paul at msn.com Sun Mar 23 16:52:52 2003 From: Paul at msn.com (Pamel) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 09:52:52 -0600 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Ayaka's Logos References: <001901c2ef46$96817190$6501a8c0@marlena> <20030323102139.6513.qmail@smx05.admiral.ne.jp> Message-ID: "Ayaka Ishikawa" wrote > I made test picture for hardware use > http://lysithea.tripod.co.jp/temp/mkv_dvd.jpg Wow, that is impressive. I don't even know HOW you did that. Seeing my logo on the front of a DVD player like that makes me realize how much it would not fit there. I think it looks good as an icon, especially with some color, but it looks bad on a DVD player. > I could not made with Marlena's, because I could not find lager size of it. > My logo looks too slim. It's need to increase White part. Yes, more white, and it is probably to wide. Also, looking at all of those logos makes me painfully aware that we need the writing to indicate what it is. Pamel http://www.matroska.org From Paul at msn.com Fri Mar 21 06:02:45 2003 From: Paul at msn.com (Pamel) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 23:02:45 -0600 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Ayaka's Logos References: <200303201004.AA169410716@mail.1000ad.net> <3E7A2A2B.10106@faireal.net> Message-ID: "Liisachan" wrote > I mirrored your new logos too, this time I numbered them (#1-#9) just > in case, so we can refer each of them easily. I like the one labeled "Pamel".... Pamel http://www.matroska.org From marlena at 1000ad.net Fri Mar 21 07:16:14 2003 From: marlena at 1000ad.net (Marlena Deren) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 00:16:14 -0600 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Ayaka's Logos References: <200303201004.AA169410716@mail.1000ad.net> <3E7A2A2B.10106@faireal.net> Message-ID: <002301c2ef71$60ab57e0$6501a8c0@marlena> I like that one too. I sent a message about it a week or two ago. Marlena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pamel" To: Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 11:02 PM Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Ayaka's Logos > "Liisachan" wrote > > I mirrored your new logos too, this time I numbered them (#1-#9) just > > in case, so we can refer each of them easily. > > I like the one labeled "Pamel".... > > > Pamel > > > > http://www.matroska.org > > http://www.matroska.org From Liisachan at faireal.net Sat Mar 22 14:15:01 2003 From: Liisachan at faireal.net (Liisachan) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 22:15:01 +0900 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Ayaka's Logos In-Reply-To: References: <200303201004.AA169410716@mail.1000ad.net> <3E7A2A2B.10106@faireal.net> Message-ID: <3E7C61D5.9060207@faireal.net> Pamel, I like it too. The design is complicated and might be difficult to resize nicely to make a small icon tho... What I like is: Marlena's "No Space" (this is also fine in 32x32) and "Ayaka 4" Liisachan Pamel wrote: >"Liisachan" wrote > > >>I mirrored your new logos too, this time I numbered them (#1-#9) just >>in case, so we can refer each of them easily. >> >> > >I like the one labeled "Pamel".... > > >Pamel > > > >http://www.matroska.org > > > > > http://www.matroska.org From Paul at msn.com Sun Mar 23 16:39:02 2003 From: Paul at msn.com (Pamel) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 09:39:02 -0600 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Ayaka's Logos References: <200303201004.AA169410716@mail.1000ad.net> <3E7A2A2B.10106@faireal.net> <3E7C61D5.9060207@faireal.net> Message-ID: "Liisachan" wrote > What I like is: Marlena's "No Space" (this is also fine in 32x32) and > "Ayaka 4" I like "No Space", but the "Ayaka 4" seems to abstract to me. Pamel http://www.matroska.org From Paul at msn.com Fri Mar 21 05:54:29 2003 From: Paul at msn.com (Pamel) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 22:54:29 -0600 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Ayaka's Logos References: <200303201004.AA169410716@mail.1000ad.net> Message-ID: "Marlena Deren" > I added couple new logos based on the two versions done by Ayaka. Would you number them please? Pamel http://www.matroska.org From marlena at 1000ad.net Fri Mar 21 06:37:00 2003 From: marlena at 1000ad.net (Marlena Deren) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 23:37:00 -0600 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Ayaka's Logos References: <200303201004.AA169410716@mail.1000ad.net> Message-ID: <000901c2ef6b$e5a37870$6501a8c0@marlena> You'd think that I would finally get a clue and do that :) instead of poor Liisachan having to cut everything up and doing it himself. Marlena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pamel" To: Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 10:54 PM Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Ayaka's Logos > "Marlena Deren" > > I added couple new logos based on the two versions done by Ayaka. > > Would you number them please? > > > Pamel > > > > http://www.matroska.org > > http://www.matroska.org From Liisachan at faireal.net Sat Mar 22 14:21:19 2003 From: Liisachan at faireal.net (Liisachan) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 22:21:19 +0900 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Ayaka's Logos In-Reply-To: <000901c2ef6b$e5a37870$6501a8c0@marlena> References: <200303201004.AA169410716@mail.1000ad.net> <000901c2ef6b$e5a37870$6501a8c0@marlena> Message-ID: <3E7C634F.2070301@faireal.net> > You'd think that I would finally get a clue and do that :) instead of poor > Liisachan having to cut everything up and doing it himself. dont worry , it was a very simple work I just cpened MS Paint, pasted your pic, and copied and pasted 9 times, and it didnt take more than 10 secs for each piece, since i typed HTML docs with a plain editor. btw: i m not "him" Liisachan Marlena Deren wrote: >You'd think that I would finally get a clue and do that :) instead of poor >Liisachan having to cut everything up and doing it himself. > >Marlena >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Pamel" >To: >Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 10:54 PM >Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Ayaka's Logos > > > > >>"Marlena Deren" >> >> >>>I added couple new logos based on the two versions done by Ayaka. >>> >>> >>Would you number them please? >> >> >>Pamel >> >> >> >>http://www.matroska.org >> >> >> >> > >http://www.matroska.org > > > > > http://www.matroska.org From marlena at 1000ad.net Sat Mar 22 17:27:31 2003 From: marlena at 1000ad.net (Marlena Deren) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 10:27:31 -0600 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Ayaka's Logos References: <200303201004.AA169410716@mail.1000ad.net> <000901c2ef6b$e5a37870$6501a8c0@marlena> <3E7C634F.2070301@faireal.net> Message-ID: <004201c2f08f$f05bc1d0$6501a8c0@marlena> > btw: i m not "him" Liisachan, Do I feel stupid now... You have a curious (screen)name with which I've never met before. I apologize for assuming you were a male. -Marlena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Liisachan" To: Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 7:21 AM Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Ayaka's Logos > > > You'd think that I would finally get a clue and do that :) instead of poor > > Liisachan having to cut everything up and doing it himself. > > dont worry , it was a very simple work > I just cpened MS Paint, pasted your pic, and copied and pasted 9 times, and > it didnt take more than 10 secs for each piece, since i typed HTML docs with a plain editor. > btw: i m not "him" > > Liisachan > > > > Marlena Deren wrote: > > >You'd think that I would finally get a clue and do that :) instead of poor > >Liisachan having to cut everything up and doing it himself. > > > >Marlena > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Pamel" > >To: > >Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 10:54 PM > >Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Ayaka's Logos > > > > > > > > > >>"Marlena Deren" > >> > >> > >>>I added couple new logos based on the two versions done by Ayaka. > >>> > >>> > >>Would you number them please? > >> > >> > >>Pamel > >> > >> > >> > >>http://www.matroska.org > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > >http://www.matroska.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matroska.org > > http://www.matroska.org From Paul at msn.com Sun Mar 23 08:47:06 2003 From: Paul at msn.com (Pamel) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 01:47:06 -0600 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Ayaka's Logos References: <200303201004.AA169410716@mail.1000ad.net> <000901c2ef6b$e5a37870$6501a8c0@marlena> <3E7C634F.2070301@faireal.net> <004201c2f08f$f05bc1d0$6501a8c0@marlena> Message-ID: "Marlena Deren" wrote > > btw: i m not "him" > > Do I feel stupid now... You have a curious (screen)name with which I've > never met before. > I apologize for assuming you were a male. I believe this would be the first recorded incident of a non-male writing to the list. I'm giddy with excitement. Can anyone think of a previous example? Pamel If only this happenned in the real world.... http://www.matroska.org From Paul at msn.com Sun Mar 23 16:45:58 2003 From: Paul at msn.com (Pamel) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 09:45:58 -0600 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Ayaka's Logos References: <200303201004.AA169410716@mail.1000ad.net> <000901c2ef6b$e5a37870$6501a8c0@marlena> <3E7C634F.2070301@faireal.net> <004201c2f08f$f05bc1d0$6501a8c0@marlena> Message-ID: Well, Cyrius just told me that Marlena isn't a girl either. I'm an idiot. Pamel "Pamel" wrote ... > "Marlena Deren" wrote > > > btw: i m not "him" > > > > Do I feel stupid now... You have a curious (screen)name with which I've > > never met before. > > I apologize for assuming you were a male. > > I believe this would be the first recorded incident of a non-male writing to > the list. I'm giddy with excitement. > > Can anyone think of a previous example? > > > Pamel http://www.matroska.org From suiryc at yahoo.com Sun Mar 23 23:34:14 2003 From: suiryc at yahoo.com (Cyrius) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 14:34:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Ayaka's Logos In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030323223414.61227.qmail@web12904.mail.yahoo.com> --- Pamel wrote: > Well, Cyrius just told me that Marlena isn't a girl > either. I'm an idiot. > > > Pamel lol I like Pamel's humor ;) He must be really surprised there are girls posting in this ML ;) Actually I told him there were 2 girls at least (Liisachan - up to now I wasn't sure even if her nickname sounds more like a woman one - and Marlena). So now Pamel please get a hold of yourself and don't write things I never said :p And no, we have no gender problems in this list :) __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com http://www.matroska.org From Paul at msn.com Mon Mar 24 03:24:33 2003 From: Paul at msn.com (Pamel) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 20:24:33 -0600 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Ayaka's Logos References: <20030323223414.61227.qmail@web12904.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: "Cyrius" wrote > --- Pamel wrote: > > Well, Cyrius just told me that Marlena isn't a girl > > either. I'm an idiot. > > lol I like Pamel's humor ;) Okay, I'm an idiot that can't type. I meant to say, "Cyrius just told me that Marlena is a girl." Pamel http://www.matroska.org From chris at matroska.org Fri Mar 21 16:05:33 2003 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 16:05:33 +0100 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Working matroska dshow filter In-Reply-To: <3E7B1E7A.70800@corecodec.com> References: <200303101444.h2AEiP832087@mailgate5.cinetic.de> <3E6F6AE4.8070706@corecodec.com> <3E71D69D.6060805@matroska.org> <3E7B1E7A.70800@corecodec.com> Message-ID: <3E7B2A3D.5020104@matroska.org> Jan, thank you so much !! This is in fact one of the greatest b-day presents i ever received in my whole Life !! What a coincidence, really, but this makes me feel REAL good today, despite the fact i am one year older now ;) ... My other great thanks goes of course to Cyrius and Mosu, who are the biggest support for us we could have ever wished for, developing all those great tools for matroska so that it can be used nicely on Windows and Linux. You guys are just great, and we hope to have you in our team for a very very long time !! And while i am already in the process of saying thank you, please allow me to express my admiration to the people who have made this possible with us : John 'spyder' Cannon, who is with the team now since the very beginning, mate, i know there are big things to come from you, MPA2MKA and MPEG2MKV are just the very beginning ! Blacksun and Betaboy, who always believed in our small project, and are hosting us on Corecodec for free ! Folks you're advice, both technical ( Ludovic ) and with respect to organisation matters ( Dan ) helped us soooo much ! Dont know if we ever did it without you .... Frank Klemm, your input was soo importnat for us, it was coming exactly at the right time, when we were a bit clueless in what direction we should move with matroska .... a very warm 'Danke Sch?n' to you ! Toff, Ciler and Oxy, the core devs and the heart of TCMP, you were always friends to our project, we know we can always count on you guys ! Pamel and Milkman_Dan, the one jumped into the project when the other had to lean back a bit for real life reasons, but what would we be without your support folks ! The new developers, designers and contributors coming to our help, Marlena, Ronald, Mike, Rath0, animesh, bill_baroud, amit, shelly, Liisachan, Ayaka, Henry, How Man, Thana, Sriram, Golddragongt, David, maliqua, Santiago, DaveEL, Matthew, Nupur, Kimmo, and all the other matroska fans i couldn't think of now, in the very short notice ( and will hopefully accept my apologies for that ) : Your help and interest in our small project is pushing us forward, motivating us to give the best day by day, and we hope we will succeed in the end, with your help, to establish matroska as a nice, well designed open standard alternative to all existing audio and video containers !! Thanks Marlena, thanks guys for all you help and contribution ! And Finally : Steve, its just one more step of many steps we both were going together to get this project moving, but for me it has a special meaning, and its even more important now as it is my b-day when the filter first worked. I hope we will make many many steps like that in the future, together, and as friends ..... thank you Steve, thank you for making this great day possible for me !! /me said enough now and goes off to celebrate the birth of the matroska DShow filter :-) .... Christian P.S. I hope nobody here got the impression now that we are a Windows centric project .. LOL Ludovic 'BlackSun' Vialle wrote: > MyFUN did it :) > > http://www.matroska.org From kimmo at poispakkoruotsi.com Sat Mar 22 16:55:26 2003 From: kimmo at poispakkoruotsi.com (Kimmo) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 17:55:26 +0200 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Working matroska dshow filter References: <200303101444.h2AEiP832087@mailgate5.cinetic.de> <3E6F6AE4.8070706@corecodec.com> <3E71D69D.6060805@matroska.org> <3E7B1E7A.70800@corecodec.com> <3E7B2A3D.5020104@matroska.org> Message-ID: <005901c2f08b$7776f400$0100a8c0@kimmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christian HJ Wiesner" To: "Ludovic 'BlackSun' Vialle" ; ; ; ; Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 5:05 PM Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Working matroska dshow filter > > Jan, > > thank you so much !! This is in fact one of the greatest b-day presents > i ever received in my whole Life !! What a coincidence, really, but this > makes me feel REAL good today, despite the fact i am one year older now > ;) ... Well, is this available somewhere in the net for beta testing? =) http://www.matroska.org From Paul at msn.com Sun Mar 23 08:49:15 2003 From: Paul at msn.com (Pamel) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 01:49:15 -0600 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Working matroska dshow filter References: <200303101444.h2AEiP832087@mailgate5.cinetic.de> <3E6F6AE4.8070706@corecodec.com> <3E71D69D.6060805@matroska.org> <3E7B1E7A.70800@corecodec.com> <3E7B2A3D.5020104@matroska.org> <005901c2f08b$7776f400$0100a8c0@kimmo> Message-ID: "Kimmo" wrote > Well, is this available somewhere in the net for beta testing? =) Not quite. I wouldn't even say the filter has reached alpha status yet. I can play a few seconds of some videos trancoded to it. But give it a good two weeks of development time, and I think we might have an alpha/beta project. Pamel http://www.matroska.org From chris at matroska.org Sun Mar 23 12:56:47 2003 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 12:56:47 +0100 Subject: [matroska-general] Poll about matroska logo ? Message-ID: <3E7DA0FF.4000401@matroska.org> Hi, i am about to leave to China, but hope to have internet access there from most hotels. What you think about making a poll, asking people about what logo they like best ? I recommend to use http://corecoded.com for that, with about 2000 - 3000 unique visitors per day hopefully the ideal platform for that, especially if Betaboy could decide to open up a new messgae for that. Best timing would probably be in about 1 - 2 weeks from now, when TCMP RC3 has been loaded from most TCMP users, and Ludovic is on his way to Europe so RC4 will have to wait until mid of April. Alternative is of course Doom9, as always. What you Ladies and folks think about this idea ? Christian http://www.matroska.org From Liisachan at faireal.net Sun Mar 23 13:36:44 2003 From: Liisachan at faireal.net (Liisachan) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 21:36:44 +0900 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Poll about matroska logo ? In-Reply-To: <3E7DA0FF.4000401@matroska.org> References: <3E7DA0FF.4000401@matroska.org> Message-ID: <3E7DAA5C.9090601@faireal.net> sure, but will you all please check the newest post by Ayaka that i ve just mirrored? http://www.faireal.net/matroska/matroska_logo this pic is REALLY cool. ayaka add another ring to Marlena & SarreqTeryx's "Cosmic" which made a ring in the ring in the ring in the... i believe this elegantly symbolizes the essence of Matroska--EBML, and is stylish! Looking this sample image, i find probably we need the string "Matroska" in the Logo, so everyone will know what this mark is, while it is obvious that we cannot put the letters in an Icon. Liisachan Christian HJ Wiesner wrote: >Hi, > >i am about to leave to China, but hope to have internet access there >from most hotels. > >What you think about making a poll, asking people about what logo they >like best ? > >I recommend to use http://corecoded.com for that, with about 2000 - 3000 >unique visitors per day hopefully the ideal platform for that, >especially if Betaboy could decide to open up a new messgae for that. >Best timing would probably be in about 1 - 2 weeks from now, when TCMP >RC3 has been loaded from most TCMP users, and Ludovic is on his way to >Europe so RC4 will have to wait until mid of April. > >Alternative is of course Doom9, as always. > >What you Ladies and folks think about this idea ? > >Christian > >http://www.matroska.org > > > > > http://www.matroska.org From Liisachan at faireal.net Sun Mar 23 13:48:28 2003 From: Liisachan at faireal.net (Liisachan) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 21:48:28 +0900 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Poll about matroska logo ? In-Reply-To: <3E7DAA5C.9090601@faireal.net> References: <3E7DA0FF.4000401@matroska.org> <3E7DAA5C.9090601@faireal.net> Message-ID: <3E7DAD1C.8010602@faireal.net> Liisachan wrote: >sure, but will you all please check the newest post by Ayaka that i ve >just mirrored? > >http://www.faireal.net/matroska/matroska_logo > >this pic is REALLY cool. >ayaka add another ring to Marlena & SarreqTeryx's "Cosmic" which made a >ring in the ring in the ring in the... > Sorry, another ring is by SarreqTeryx.. I hadnt check the thread yet when i last posted http://corecodec.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=292 http://www.matroska.org From Marlena at mail.1000ad.net Sun Mar 23 15:39:51 2003 From: Marlena at mail.1000ad.net (Marlena Deren) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 08:39:51 -0600 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Poll about matroska logo ? Message-ID: <200303230839.AA120782970@mail.1000ad.net> Hi, I think that a poll is a good idea since people seem to be split between the "cosmic" as someone has put it, and the Ayaka versions. I suggest that we narrow it down to a couple of logos, resize them to the same dimensions, and make any other changes that were mentioned, in other words, clean things up a bit. I had couple of more logo ideas but I think that we have enough for now. I will modify my current logos based on the suggestions from responses. If you have any other suggestions, let me know. Christian, enjoy China. - Marlena ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Christian HJ Wiesner Reply-To: matroska-general at freelists.org Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 12:56:47 +0100 > > >Hi, > >i am about to leave to China, but hope to have internet access there >from most hotels. > >What you think about making a poll, asking people about what logo they >like best ? > >I recommend to use http://corecoded.com for that, with about 2000 - 3000 >unique visitors per day hopefully the ideal platform for that, >especially if Betaboy could decide to open up a new messgae for that. >Best timing would probably be in about 1 - 2 weeks from now, when TCMP >RC3 has been loaded from most TCMP users, and Ludovic is on his way to >Europe so RC4 will have to wait until mid of April. > >Alternative is of course Doom9, as always. > >What you Ladies and folks think about this idea ? > >Christian > >http://www.matroska.org > > http://www.matroska.org From Marlena at mail.1000ad.net Sun Mar 23 18:57:44 2003 From: Marlena at mail.1000ad.net (Marlena Deren) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 11:57:44 -0600 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Ayaka's Logos Message-ID: <200303231157.AA133431418@mail.1000ad.net> Are we having gender problems on this list? :-) You are not an idiot, I am a girl. Marlena ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Pamel" Reply-To: matroska-general at freelists.org Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 09:45:58 -0600 >Well, Cyrius just told me that Marlena isn't a girl either. I'm an idiot. > > >Pamel > >"Pamel" wrote ... >> "Marlena Deren" wrote >> > > btw: i m not "him" >> > >> > Do I feel stupid now... You have a curious (screen)name with which I've >> > never met before. >> > I apologize for assuming you were a male. >> >> I believe this would be the first recorded incident of a non-male writing >to >> the list. I'm giddy with excitement. >> >> Can anyone think of a previous example? >> >> >> Pamel > > > >http://www.matroska.org > > http://www.matroska.org From Paul at msn.com Sun Mar 23 19:22:44 2003 From: Paul at msn.com (Pamel) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 12:22:44 -0600 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Ayaka's Logos References: <200303231157.AA133431418@mail.1000ad.net> Message-ID: "Marlena Deren" > Are we having gender problems on this list? :-) You are not an idiot, I am a girl. No silly, girls aren't idiots. Pamel http://www.matroska.org From kimmo at poispakkoruotsi.com Mon Mar 24 18:26:11 2003 From: kimmo at poispakkoruotsi.com (Kimmo) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 19:26:11 +0200 Subject: [matroska-general] How about MP3Pro support in Matroska? Message-ID: Noticed this good quality compression format, which gives 128 kbps quality at 48 kbps without breaking compability with existing MP3 players. Will Matroska support this? http://www.mp3prozone.com/ http://www.matroska.org From pfk at fuchs.offl.uni-jena.de Tue Mar 25 01:14:34 2003 From: pfk at fuchs.offl.uni-jena.de (Frank Klemm) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 01:14:34 +0100 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: =[SPAM?]= How about MP3Pro support in Matroska? In-Reply-To: ; from kimmo@poispakkoruotsi.com on Mon, Mar 24, 2003 at 07:26:11PM +0200 References: Message-ID: <20030325011434.A6525@fuchs.offl.uni-jena.de> On Mon, Mar 24, 2003 at 07:26:11PM +0200, Kimmo wrote: > > Noticed this good quality compression format, which gives 128 kbps quality > at 48 kbps > 64 kbps MP3 Pro sounds worse than 128 kbps MP3 (lame). Don't be one of the marketing droids on this planet distributing these lies on this planet. > without breaking compability with existing MP3 players. > Do you really know someone who listen to 48 kbps MP3Pro files with a non-Pro Decoder longer than 10 seconds? Without paying money for listening this awful quality? -- Frank Klemm http://www.matroska.org From isolde_w at yahoo.com Tue Mar 25 03:39:41 2003 From: isolde_w at yahoo.com (Marlena) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 18:39:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: [matroska-general] logo txt Message-ID: <20030325023941.9429.qmail@web10009.mail.yahoo.com> > Also, looking at all of those logos makes me painfully aware that we need the writing to indicate what it is. I included the name in every single one my logos but all of the recent variations skipped it. Since I am reworking my designs, are there any fonts I have used previously that I should/should not change? Is there anything that works? Or should I just use one font in all of them, something sans serif, like Verdana or Arial that would look good on the screen and paper. Let me know. - Marlena __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com http://www.matroska.org From chris at matroska.org Wed Mar 26 01:15:09 2003 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 01:15:09 +0100 Subject: [matroska-general] matroska support in Nero ? Request from Menno Bakker ... Message-ID: <3E80F10D.9030902@matroska.org> Hi, i just wanted to point out, to those who didnt know, that Menno Bakker is an employee of the company Ahead, the people behind Nero, certainly the most successful CD burning application out there. Menno was asking in a nice email about how matroska support in Nero could be done, pls. see my ( long ) answer to him that was copied to this list, titled 'matroska' . HTTP link is here : http://news.gmane.org/thread.php?group=gmane.comp.multimedia.matroska.general Good news, isnt it :-) ? Christian http://www.matroska.org From chris at wiesneronline.net Thu Mar 27 23:10:43 2003 From: chris at wiesneronline.net (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 23:10:43 +0100 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: matroska support in Nero ? Request from Menno Bakker ... In-Reply-To: <3E80F10D.9030902@matroska.org> References: <3E80F10D.9030902@matroska.org> Message-ID: <3E8376E3.6030501@wiesneronline.net> Christian HJ Wiesner wrote: Short update : Menno Bakker from Ahead came to our IRC channel on irc.corecodec.com #matroska today, asking some more things about matroska. log is here http://wiesneronline.net/irclogs/%23matroska.CoreCodec.20030327.log , search about 15.30 - 16.00 h . He basically told us that he will introduce matroska to some high Ahead officials in Las vegas in about 2 weeks from now, and its well possible we get some basic support for matroska in Nero then, depending on their decisions. Christian ( , excited :) ) >Hi, > >i just wanted to point out, to those who didnt know, that Menno Bakker >is an employee of the company Ahead, the people behind Nero, certainly >the most successful CD burning application out there. Menno was asking >in a nice email about how matroska support in Nero could be done, pls. >see my ( long ) answer to him that was copied to this list, titled >'matroska' . > >HTTP link is here : >http://news.gmane.org/thread.php?group=gmane.comp.multimedia.matroska.general > >Good news, isnt it :-) ? > >Christian > > >http://www.matroska.org > > > > http://www.matroska.org From chris at matroska.org Wed Mar 26 01:36:55 2003 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 01:36:55 +0100 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Matroska In-Reply-To: <000601c2f1e9$f3d08c00$aca35982@chnappo> References: <000601c2f1e9$f3d08c00$aca35982@chnappo> Message-ID: <3E80F627.6050709@matroska.org> Hi Menno, sorry about the late reply, i am currently in China for 2 weeks on bussiness, and couldnt check my email earlier ( for some stupid reason my domaine name doesnt resolve properly in the Chinese DNS server, so i had to fiddle a bit :-( ) Menno Bakker wrote: >Hi Christian, > >IIRC you send me an email a long time ago about supporting Matroska, didn't >really have time to look at it then. But at the moment I'm working for Ahead >(Nero) and they asked me to investigate if it would be useful to support >Matroska in Nero (and other upcoming products). > > We are glad that our small project caught your interest, rest assured we will do anything to support you on this. The email i was sending you that time, IIRC, was to raise your interest for a new Universal Codec API called UCI ( Universal Codec Interface ), started by a US fellow named Alex ' Foogod' Stewart. We were pretty excited about UCI at that time and i hoped to get some comments from you that could be useful with respect to audio, as Alex himself is more skilled in video related things. Very unfortunately it seems that UCI is dead, there hasnt been any update of the existing libuci code or the specs, also Alex Stewart wont even respond to emails from other people wanting to help administrating the project while he cant work on it, so it seems it bound to die soon. We havent come up with an alternative solution to UCI yet, the reason we were supporting it from our container project was that we had done some first work on making our own API and soon realized what a huge task that is, so we were pretty happy somebody with a good background in MPEG and video compression in general was making such a codec API so we could use it. Of course there is no necessity for such a codec API to be able to write/read spec compliant matroska files, but one day we wnat to be able to overcome the limitations of the old VfW and ACM codec APIs on Windows, and as this will be an opensource approach we of course want to make it x-platform from the very start, like we did with matroska ( formerly : MCF ). Now, concerning your question about if it was useful for Nero to support matroska . As i see it there are 3 pontential uses for matroska from Nero : 1. Reading matroska files for transmuxing the video or audio content from it into MP4 container ( if compatible ), creating real MPEG4 compliant files 2. Creating and burning matroska mode2 form2 video and/or audio files, similar to VCD/S-VCD ( 795 MB on 80 mins, EDC/ECC on file level for all important stuff like headers, etc. ) but giving much more options with respect to subtitles, menues, etc. 3. Writing MPEG4 video with non-MPEG4 compliant audio compression formats ( such as Vorbis ) into a general use open standard container, as an existing and working alternative to Ogg/OGM, if there are plans to do so 4. Allowing the user to pack a complete album ( Music CD ) into a single file, even using different compression formats and sampliung rates, and also attaching lyrics as either subtitles or attached files Here my estimation of what is useful for Ahead : At 1. : This is fully depending on the acceptance of matroska by the users, and we wont have any illusion about how long it may take until people will really stop using AVI. Fortunately i do have pretty good personal with Mr. Avery Lee, the congenial developer of Virtualdub, and although Avery hasnt said anything in public yet we still have high hopes he will add matroska reading, writing and capturing support to official Virtualdub one day, giving our container a big push for sure. At 2. : This is where i see the biggest benefit for Nero, being a burning application in very first instance. Right now we have to create Cue/Bin files with Mode2CD maker ( http://xcd.sf.net ) first and burn them in Nero to have mode2 form2 CDs offering more discspace, i was dreaming already about a Nero matroska plugin so we could create them like we can do with VCD/S-VCDs already today, but allowing *EVERY* supported audio and video codec ( and we plan to support them all ;-) ) to be used in the file, every resolution, framerate ( even variable ), sampling rate, etc. . In a next step Nero could also have a matroska menue creation plugin, so people could start making menues for their MPEG4 files ..... a dream really, to good to be true :-) !! In a first mode2 form2 implementation it was certainly enough to allow a big matroska file ( max. 795 MB ) and burn in in mode2 form2, a more specialized plugin ( with sourcecode from us ) would be able to make more than that, for example by filling available space ( say the file is 780 MB ) with additional EDC/ECC ( FEC, like Solomon-Reed )elements, so that the 795 MB are fully used and optimal protection of the file and the track/block headers is given. At 3. : Dont know if you have any plans to allow this, i know there are Vorbis plugins for Nero, but i dont know if you plan to support file creation also. We always hear that Xiph people themselves plan to allow MPEG4 video in Ogg with the upcoming Theora implementation, but they dont announce anything in public, so this is just guessing. The current OGM container implementation made by Tobias Waldvogel based on Ogg and VfW/DShow is bound to die IMHO, as there is no work being done on the container for months, and all people understanding it and having created tools for OGM file creation are now team members of matroska :-) ! At 4. : matroska will allow a couple of nice things to be done for audio users also, and be it just to help with unifying all the different tagging standards ;) ... this is not top priority, but for sure we will work on that one day. >I have a few questions about Matroska: >- How far is WIN32 compatibility? (I read somewhere that it didn't work on >WIN32 yet) > We have - a modified version of Virtualdub that is capable of writing, reading and editing of matroska files, made by Cyrius, the main developer of VirtualdubMod. The link is here http://cyrius.bunkus.org/VirtualDubMod-Matroska-Alpha3.rar : Please goto http://sf.net/projects/virtualdubmod first, download it with all the necessary DLLs, and then replace the virtualdub.exe with the one you find in the link. Cyrius is certainly one of the strongest contributor to our project, he was adding OGM support to VirtualdubMod also and had certain his experiences with Ogg, especially with respect to editing the files ( ;-) ), so i feel he prefers matroska also. Currently he is in the process of cleaning up the complete sourcecode of VirtualdubMod, implementing all the changes that Avery had introduced with Vdub 1.5.x , and making the OGM and matroska support modules completely new and from scratch. Pls. note that there is a bug in the audio handling still ( we know about it already ), so you wont be able to open matroska files with audio in matroskadub right now, this will be resolved in the new version after the cleanup. We also have a working DirectShow parser now, but its crashing after 10 seconds, can only read DivX video and doesnt support audio yet :-) !! Reason for this is that Jan 'myFUN' Schlenker, our DShow parser developer, was on vacation for 3 weeks when libmatroska was released, so we are a bit behind on development now but hope to have a working alpha version soon . >- Am I right in stating that supporting just the Matroska file format, >automatically the codecs inside are supported? E.g. codec support is >transparent? Or do we need to read from the Matroska file and then run the >decoder seperately? > Well, if we had the new, powerful opensource codec API already then our plan was to call external plugins with this API, both for encoding ( from Virtualdub ) and decoding ( from our DShow parser ). But as UCI seems to have come to a halt and our own solution is not existing yet, we have to find other ways as an interims solution ( for Windows, Linux is much easier, libavcodec does it ): - For MPEG4 video we will call any existing DirectShow filter that is capable of decoding MPEG4. Note that we can differentiate between MPEG4 Simple, Simple Advanced and Advanced Profile from matroska, we still have to define a way how to find out what FourCC's had to be used for each profile ( like 'dx50' and 'xvid' for SAP and 'divx' for SP ) and then have a match table hardcoded in our parser. - For MPEG1/2 video we do the same, we call any existing, installed DShow filter for playback, same goes for MP2/3 audio - Vorbis, MPC ( musepack ), FLAC will be hardcoded into the matroska DShow parser. This is not a nice solution, but we dont have any other sensible choice right now, at least until somebody makes nice and clean DShow filters for them. - In ACM compatibility mode we just call the ACM codec, same goes for VfW, DShow and QT compatibility modes >I could look at the specs myself, but you probably know, >so that's much easier :) > Sure, i am glad you give me the chance to point out project out to you >- Is it possible license-wise? It's LGPL? Then it's no problem I guess. > Well, no, unfortunately this is a little bit more complicated, but we'll find a solution here for sure. To avoid project forks or companies like M$ stealing our work, we decided to dual license our library code under both GPL and QPL, and did not use a L-GPL or BSD type license like Xiph do with libogg. Of course, the specs are fully open to any company wanting to support matroska with a self made implementation, writing their own libraries, but i understand this may not be an option for you due to time and compatibility constraints. Now, the QPL license does allow us to give commercial licenses of our library sourcecode to any company, and its our decision what the conditions are for this. I will discuss with Steve, Cyrius and Mosu, the main coders of the library, about the possibility to give Ahead a commercial license of our code, at no cost, but with a time limit ( like 5 years ? ). Alternatively you had to release your plugin sourcecode under either a QPL or a GPL license, or using both license types. >If you can give me more reasons why Ahead should bring support for Matroska, >please let me know. Greetings, Menno > > Sure ! Because we are such nice people :-) . Honestly, i hope the list given above does give you some 'ammunition' , but if you guys decide to wait a bit until the container is actually used then its fine with us also .... Best regards Christian http://www.matroska.org From steve.lhomme at free.fr Wed Mar 26 10:50:07 2003 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 10:50:07 +0100 (CET) Subject: [matroska-general] Blue-HD-DVD Message-ID: <1048672207.3e8177cf27bd9@imp.free.fr> http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.asp?RelatedID=3621 "The purpose of our new formats is to compete internationally with new formats in the world market and to promote the new format to China, with which we have a good relationship," Huang said. " The Blue-HD-DVD specs exclude MPEG-2 compression, but ITRI is working on a proprietary compression technology, AVC, that resembles MPEG-4 and that "stores more than five hours of HDTV motion pictures," Huang said. MPEG-2 requires about 15 Gbytes of capacity to store two hours of video, he said. " So there is room for newcomers in future hardware formats :) Let's get ready !!! (unfortunately I don't have much time this week apart from tonight) http://www.matroska.org From steve.lhomme at free.fr Wed Mar 26 11:50:10 2003 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 11:50:10 +0100 (CET) Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Matroska Message-ID: <1048675810.3e8185e26b016@imp.free.fr> > I will discuss with Steve, Cyrius and Mosu, the main coders of the > library, about the possibility to give Ahead a commercial license of our > code, at no cost, but with a time limit ( like 5 years ? ). > Alternatively you had to release your plugin sourcecode under either a > QPL or a GPL license, or using both license types. I understand the matroska support in Nero would be a *huge* boost for us ! But in the other hand if we don't get any money from them, we'll hardly get any from anyone... We are not in it for the money for sure. But we already said money would be welcome to push the format, attend conferences, legal problems, hosting (sharing some money with CC) and future development (of matroska and side projects). Now we may not "sell" the code (but still restrict the distribution to a binary form and get access to their modifications) but accept a donation in exchange of this special license :) I don't think we want to go the royalties way (get a few cents for every shipped binary) even though it's the most lucrative way (and you are paid for the acceptance of the format). Also you forgot to mention we want to be a viable and long-term free alternative to existing containers like AVI, Quicktime/MP4, OGG, MPEG, etc. With a view on hardware players. So Nero would be a good entry point to CDs/DVDs with native matroska files and streams for hardware players. Finally, we have nice logos in preparation if they want to use it :) http://www.matroska.org From steve.lhomme at free.fr Thu Mar 27 14:20:17 2003 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 14:20:17 +0100 (CET) Subject: [matroska-general] Macho coders Message-ID: <1048771217.3e82fa91d3dd9@imp.free.fr> An interresting article on the choice of programming language : http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/55/29958.html "There is also a macho streak in programmers: a tendency to believe that one's own code is well-written, and a corresponding belief that real coders, like fighter pilots, work as close as possible to the bare metal: Real programmers manipulate the system at the lowest possible level, for the maximum possible effect." http://www.matroska.org From isolde_w at yahoo.com Sat Mar 29 02:08:00 2003 From: isolde_w at yahoo.com (Marlena) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 17:08:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [matroska-general] site design Message-ID: <20030329010800.14973.qmail@web10007.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Anshuman, How are you doing with the site? I checked out the last link you posted (http://www28.brinkster.com/golddragongt/sample.html) and just had a question whether the green bar with the sample logo will stay as it is because that roughly gives us 46 pixels in height for the logo. Is it fine if I round off the height to 50? Thanks. Marlena __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com http://www.matroska.org From Golddragongt at cs.com Sat Mar 29 05:53:51 2003 From: Golddragongt at cs.com (Golddragongt at cs.com) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 23:53:51 EST Subject: [matroska-general] Re: site design Message-ID: <1d3.638b4a9.2bb680df@cs.com> Hi, Sure, you can round off the logo size to 50 pixels. You can make it as big as you want. I just chose that size because I like to keep it around 50 pixels. I fell sick recently, so I wasn't able to develop anything for a while. I'll get back to you end of this weekend, however, with updates on my work. My next stage is working with fonts, the left hand side of the page, and the footer. Anshuman http://www.matroska.org From marlena at 1000ad.net Mon Mar 31 00:58:13 2003 From: marlena at 1000ad.net (Marlena Deren) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 16:58:13 -0600 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: site design References: <1d3.638b4a9.2bb680df@cs.com> Message-ID: <000501c2f70f$d9a5d850$6501a8c0@marlena> > I fell sick recently, so I wasn't able to develop anything for a > while. I'll get back to you end of this weekend, however, with updates on my > work. Take your time if you are sick, I think that Steve mentioned sometime ago that the site will not go up until mid-April or so. I did not work on anything for Matroska over the weekend either, my semester is ending and I have been living on coffee and few hours of sleep since I put off finishing my projects until the last minute and then all the hell breaks loose in my house :) Feel better... Marlena ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 10:53 PM Subject: [matroska-general] Re: site design > Hi, > > Sure, you can round off the logo size to 50 pixels. You can make it as > big as you want. I just chose that size because I like to keep it around 50 > pixels. > > I fell sick recently, so I wasn't able to develop anything for a > while. I'll get back to you end of this weekend, however, with updates on my > work. My next stage is working with fonts, the left hand side of the page, > and the footer. > > Anshuman > > > http://www.matroska.org > > http://www.matroska.org From steve.lhomme at free.fr Mon Mar 31 09:57:48 2003 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 09:57:48 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [matroska-general] GPL & Business Message-ID: <1049097468.3e87f4fc4ea65@imp.free.fr> http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=3162 A very good article that explains the problem of GPL vs proprietary software, to make "business". It's well written and anybody can understand it (for those who have problems reading licenses). http://www.matroska.org From steve.lhomme at free.fr Mon Mar 31 10:19:26 2003 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 10:19:26 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [matroska-general] Internet TV Message-ID: <1049098766.3e87fa0e8d622@imp.free.fr> http://www.eetimes.com/sys/news/OEG20030327S0043 "Five Japanese TV manufacturers will form a working group to hammer out technical specifications by October for digital TVs with Internet access." Should we contact them about the streaming possibilities of matroska ? Otherwise I speculate they will use MPEG4/MP4. http://www.matroska.org