From kimmo at poispakkoruotsi.com Tue Jun 3 03:51:14 2003 From: kimmo at poispakkoruotsi.com (Kimmo) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 04:51:14 +0300 Subject: [matroska-general] Matroska in the biggest PC magazine of Finland Message-ID: The biggest computer magazine MikroBitti in Finland noticed Matroska in its newest release 6-7/2003. So about 50 000 computer freaks know now about our file format :) "Matroska is an open standard based file format, which is now in test stage after one and half year developing. Matroska isn't actually a compression codec, but one pack which contains audio, video and subtitle informations. With that a user can save all needed files for one movie to one simple file. So one file is itself playable unlike most times now with AVI etc. Mostly it has thought to replace AVI files and its flexibility makes it a challenger even to Real Media and MPEG files. Matroska will be identified in future by .mkv (video) and .mka (audio). They promise that Matroska is very flexible, because it's based to EBML (extensible binary meta language). Matroska makes possible to one decide heselves the file size, then it's a good way saving e.g. PCM multichannel audio files and even high resolution HDTV files, both which need much space." http://www.matroska.org From chris at matroska.org Tue Jun 3 22:50:22 2003 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 22:50:22 +0200 Subject: [matroska-general] New website structure Message-ID: <3EDD0A0E.7010409@matroska.org> Hi, here a first draft of the new website structure i liked to have. Its still in very early stage, please dont judge to hard on me :) http://wiesneronline.net/matroska/ Regards Christian http://www.matroska.org From chris at matroska.org Wed Jun 4 11:34:37 2003 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 11:34:37 +0200 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: New website structure In-Reply-To: <3EDD0A0E.7010409@matroska.org> References: <3EDD0A0E.7010409@matroska.org> Message-ID: <3EDDBD2D.8030500@matroska.org> HI, this message goes to the former 'design team' of matroska : Marlena, guys, i am extremely sorry that nobody from our team had the time to really make some of the very pending decisions with respect to the matroska logo and webpage, as we were all incredible busy with real life stuff and also to launch or baby :) ! We released matroska to the public on May 1st, still with the old crappy webpage made by me and without official logo, but with some nicely working code/programs ;). The user reactions so far are very promising, motivating us to keep up the hard work and make it even better, adding all the planned features over time, until nobody will use AVI anymore and MKV will be supported in a huge number of video and audio related software. I recently found the time to look at the homepage again, adding some stuff and reordering the pages, so they make more sense. This is about the right time to ask if any of you could consider to continue her/his work and try to adapt the existing homepage designs to the new site layout ? I promise i will be on the case more often now, reducing my time posting in forums and trying to improve the webpage now step by step. Next plan will be also to start a poll on Doom9 about the 'official' matroska logo ;) ..... looking forward for you reply Best regards Christian BTW : if you plan to test matroska yourself, read here : http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=54677 : There is a short example file and a description what software you need to play the file. Christian HJ Wiesner wrote: >Hi, > >here a first draft of the new website structure i liked to have. Its >still in very early stage, please dont judge to hard on me :) > >http://wiesneronline.net/matroska/ > >Regards > >Christian > >http://www.matroska.org > > > > http://www.matroska.org From paul at msn.com Sun Jun 8 02:56:14 2003 From: paul at msn.com (Pamel) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 19:56:14 -0500 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: New website structure References: <3EDD0A0E.7010409@matroska.org> Message-ID: I created a template to base all of the pages off of so that it will be easier to update in the future, and will have more consistency. I've copied all of the old pages into the template, and they are all sitting in CVS now. Please check them out at: http://matroska.corecodec.org Right now everything is being pulled directly out of CVS, except for the style sheet which is being read from: http://matroska.sourceforge.net/main.css Please click around in it to see if you can find any broken links or inconsistencies. If you click on the "Home" link it will take you to the current Matroska homepage, so be aware. Let me know what you think of it. The plan was to leave most of the pages in CVS, but have a few pages, such as the homepage, load from the normal http directory. Will this work? Is there any inherent problem to this? Who has speed issues? Does it look okay? All of the colors and fonts should be changeable from the main.css. I thought it would be fun to have the main.css load from CVS to test different site colors more quickly, but I think this will be faster for now. Pamel http://www.matroska.org From isolde_w at yahoo.com Sun Jun 8 16:20:19 2003 From: isolde_w at yahoo.com (Marlena) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 07:20:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [matroska-general] Re: New website structure In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030608142019.62916.qmail@web10009.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Pamel, I took a look around last night and just a couple of small comments: - In the Technical/Specs, the primary navigation is lost, and all of the links on the left take you to pages without any navigation whatsoever. You have to use the browser's back button. I know that you have a lot of technical content, wide tables and such, but maybe you could open those in a new window then? Just a suggestion. - Contact section works in the similar way but at least there is a Home link, and Forums page is also detached, if you are going to keep a logo on top of that page, you can use it as a way back to the homepage. I would probably move the section-specific links to the top of the page, and keep the left consistent, or have that secondary navigation above the common links, in a different color perhaps. - On the Links page, the first two MCF links on the bottom are broken. - diagram1.png is missing from the Transor API page. - The Matroska Diagram page has a white background and not that minty green like the rest of the site, but I am assuming it's this way because of the wide range of colors used on that page. Could you also move the links on the left couple of pixels to the right, they are sitting right on the line. Also, how come the font size is that big? Marlena --- Pamel wrote: > I created a template to base all of the pages off of > so that it will be > easier to update in the future, and will have more > consistency. I've copied > all of the old pages into the template, and they are > all sitting in CVS now. > Please check them out at: > > http://matroska.corecodec.org > > Right now everything is being pulled directly out of > CVS, except for the > style sheet which is being read from: > > http://matroska.sourceforge.net/main.css > > Please click around in it to see if you can find any > broken links or > inconsistencies. If you click on the "Home" link it > will take you to the > current Matroska homepage, so be aware. > > Let me know what you think of it. The plan was to > leave most of the pages > in CVS, but have a few pages, such as the homepage, > load from the normal > http directory. Will this work? Is there any > inherent problem to this? > Who has speed issues? Does it look okay? All of > the colors and fonts > should be changeable from the main.css. I thought > it would be fun to have > the main.css load from CVS to test different site > colors more quickly, but I > think this will be faster for now. > > > Pamel > > > > http://www.matroska.org > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com http://www.matroska.org From isolde_w at yahoo.com Thu Jun 5 05:02:33 2003 From: isolde_w at yahoo.com (Marlena) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 20:02:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [matroska-general] Re: New website structure Message-ID: <20030605030233.27819.qmail@web10007.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Christian, No need to apologize, you do what you feel like and what needs to be done. I've been receiving the postings and I am happy for you guys that the recognition has really picked up. I thought that you have selected Pamel's logo as it was there when I checked out the site periodically. I have more time now to work on things. I believe that Anshuman was the one working on the site layout, but if he does not respond or is too busy, I will be happy to put something together for you. Marlena > HI, > > this message goes to the former 'design team' of matroska : > > Marlena, guys, i am extremely sorry that nobody from our team had the > time to really make some of the very pending decisions with respect to > the matroska logo and webpage, as we were all incredible busy with real > life stuff and also to launch or baby :) ! > > We released matroska to the public on May 1st, still with the old crappy > webpage made by me and without official logo, but with some nicely > working code/programs ;). The user reactions so far are very promising, > motivating us to keep up the hard work and make it even better, adding > all the planned features over time, until nobody will use AVI anymore > and MKV will be supported in a huge number of video and audio related > software. > > I recently found the time to look at the homepage again, adding some > stuff and reordering the pages, so they make more sense. This is about > the right time to ask if any of you could consider to continue her/his > work and try to adapt the existing homepage designs to the new site > layout ? I promise i will be on the case more often now, reducing my > time posting in forums and trying to improve the webpage now step by step. > > Next plan will be also to start a poll on Doom9 about the 'official' > matroska logo ;) ..... looking forward for you reply > > Best regards > > Christian > > BTW : if you plan to test matroska yourself, read here : > http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=54677 : There is a > short example file and a description what software you need to play the > file. > > > Christian HJ Wiesner wrote: > > >Hi, > > > >here a first draft of the new website structure i liked to have. Its > >still in very early stage, please dont judge to hard on me :) > > > >http://wiesneronline.net/matroska/ > > > >Regards > > > >Christian > > > >http://www.matroska.org > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com http://www.matroska.org From paul at msn.com Thu Jun 5 05:48:47 2003 From: paul at msn.com (Pamel) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 22:48:47 -0500 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: New website structure References: <20030605030233.27819.qmail@web10007.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: "Marlena" wrote in message > I thought that you > have selected Pamel's logo as it was there when I > checked out the site periodically. No, I put it there because it had nothing. We really needed A logo at the top of the page at the launch last month, so I put that on up there as it was already made and had the name in the PNG. (Also it was mine, and I knew I had the right to use it, and I felt like showing off. ;) The official logo will most likely be decided by a vote from Doom9. That will let us know what people in general like most. Pamel http://www.matroska.org From isolde_w at yahoo.com Thu Jun 5 06:30:06 2003 From: isolde_w at yahoo.com (Marlena) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 21:30:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [matroska-general] Re: New website structure In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030605043006.70770.qmail@web10003.mail.yahoo.com> (Also > it was mine, and I knew > I had the right to use it, and I felt like showing > off. ;) :) > The official logo will most likely be decided by a > vote from Doom9. That > will let us know what people in general like most. I took a look at them again and feel like logos could use some fixing and changes... Marlena __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com http://www.matroska.org From Golddragongt at cs.com Thu Jun 5 21:31:47 2003 From: Golddragongt at cs.com (Golddragongt at cs.com) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 15:31:47 EDT Subject: [matroska-general] Re: New website structure Message-ID: <3a.39eee9c8.2c10f4a3@cs.com> Hey, Sorry for not staying in contact with you. I have been incredibly busy up till now, and will be so until about June 20th. I do have a design structure up, and can start redoing it for the actual website. It's still there at http://www28.brinkster.com/golddragongt/sample.html I just need a go on what I have up so far. Anshuman Bhairavbhat http://www.matroska.org From toba at cro.cz Mon Jun 9 12:03:24 2003 From: toba at cro.cz (tonek) Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 12:03:24 +0200 Subject: [matroska-general] subtitles in mkv files Message-ID: After I decided to put subtitles into a matroska container, I just cant find the way to play them back from inside of it. Is there a way under Windows AND Linux system? What software/plugins/DSfilters do I need? Thanks toba http://www.matroska.org From moritz at bunkus.org Mon Jun 9 13:46:39 2003 From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 13:46:39 +0200 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: subtitles in mkv files In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030609114639.GA1743@bunkus.org> Hi. > After I decided to put subtitles into a matroska container, I just cant find > the way to play them back from inside of it. Is there a way under Windows > AND Linux system? What software/plugins/DSfilters do I need? On Linux use MPlayer (you have to build it from the 'main' CVS module sources). On Windows this is not really possible yet, but it will be soon. -- ==> Ciao, Mosu (Moritz Bunkus) http://www.matroska.org From moritz at bunkus.org Thu Jun 12 00:50:24 2003 From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 00:50:24 +0200 Subject: [matroska-general] mkvtoolnix 0.4.3 Message-ID: <20030611225024.GE1743@bunkus.org> Hi everyone, I've just released mkvtoolnix v0.4.3. The biggest (visual) change is perhaps the ability to intelligently split files including segment linking. If you don't know what that is, then please read the mkvmerge man page/HTML documentation. Here's my ChangeLog since the last release: 2003-06-12 Moritz Bunkus * Released v0.4.3. 2003-06-11 Moritz Bunkus * Support for proper linking of segments via the segment UIDs. The first and last files created can be manually linked to given UIDs. 2003-06-08 Moritz Bunkus * Added support for splitting output files by size or by time and limiting the number of output files. * Added support for the segment UID/next segment UID/previous segment UID. 2003-06-06 Moritz Bunkus * A lot of changes to comply with libmatroska/libebml 0.4.4. 2003-06-03 Moritz Bunkus * Implemented stricter content based file type identification for MP3 and AC3 files so that those won't be mis-identified. 2003-05-31 Moritz Bunkus * Some improvements to the mkvinfo GUI (thanks to jcsston for the patch/the ideas). The release can be found at http://www.bunkus.org/videotools/mkvtoolnix/ Please note that the Windows version now comes in two ZIPs: one contains mkvtoolnix and one contains the cygwin DLLs. The latter ZIP is only needed once, so you can save a meg on the donwload if you already have them. Happy testing. -- ==> Ciao, Mosu (Moritz Bunkus) http://www.matroska.org From chris at matroska.org Thu Jun 12 13:19:47 2003 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 13:19:47 +0200 Subject: [matroska-general] Japanese and/or Korean/Chinese subtitles for my new matroska smaple file Message-ID: <3EE861D3.8030904@matroska.org> Hi Liisachan, Hi Ayaka, i am turning to you, searching help in a specific matter about subtitles. You may be aware that the last sample file i made, with 5.1 AAC audio and full DVD resolution ( XviD ) was a big success, attracting many users to 'sniff' into using matroska first time ( even people from Ahead tested it and were delighted i heard ;-) ... lol ). I have plans for another, better file now, and i want to propagate this on all video related mailing lists and webboards to show them the 'power' of matroska :-) . The file will be 'Starwars Episode 2 - attack of the clones' , like the first time, i also think i will use the same scene again, dont know yet, be 10 MB big again ( 30 s ) and have the following features : - 'native' MPEG4 matroska video stream, made with DaveEL's alpha 'avs2matroska' tool, which is not VfW based but using xvid.dll, dynamically linked to it. Resolution will be 720 x 432 again, and the AR flag in the matroska header set to 2.35 again ( 16:9 anamorphic ) ; this will be a native MPEG4 mkv file for the first time, so i cna use b-frames unlimited, without having to use packed bitstream or dummy frames ( = lagging ) - AAC 5.1 English ; track nr. #1 - AAC 5.1 German ; track nr. #2 ; both AACs are made from the AC3 on a PAL DVD, via BeSweet ( export to 5.1 AIFF ), resampled to 44.1 KHz using SSRC and then encoded to 5.1 AAC using the latest Nero 5.5.10.35 ; they sound excellent ( already on my HDD @home ;-) ) - Ogg Vorbis commentators track , q = 0.001 , 48 kbps - UTF8 subtitles ( all downloaded from a Czech subtitles server, big thanks to Gabest for the link ) : * French * Spanish * Portugese * Danish * Swedish * Finnish * Czech Unfortunately some of them were made for 23,97 fps originally, so i have no idea yet how to make them match with my 25 fps PAL video, but i hope to find a way somehow ... Now here is my question to you both : Is there any chance to get japanese, korean or chinese language subtitles for this movie, and if ever possible in 25 fps ? Main problem is, i cant read the stuff ( naturally ;-) ), so i couldnt check if the timing was correct .... can you help me here ? I hope there are subtitles server in Japan also, and the European servers dont offer too much Asian character stuff ;) .... @Mosu : what is missing in mplayer to be able to view a 'native' MPEG4 mkv file ? libavcodec should handle it fine ? @Cyrius : Any reason why VdubMod could screw up with such a high number of streams ? did you test this before ? @Gabest : vsfilter can switch between all these subs streams ? @menno : Would i run into problems telling the AAC were encoded with latest Nero ? Dont think so, but just to be sure @DaveEL : Dont worry mate, the preparation of this file will take about 3 - 4 weeks i guess ! No pressure on you here ;) .... Thanks for helping me !! Lets make sure this sample file will kick ass to show the world the power of matroska :-) !! Christian http://www.matroska.org From Liisachan at faireal.net Thu Jun 12 14:18:12 2003 From: Liisachan at faireal.net (Liisachan) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 21:18:12 +0900 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Japanese and/or Korean/Chinese subtitles for my new matroska smaple file In-Reply-To: <3EE861D3.8030904@matroska.org> References: <3EE861D3.8030904@matroska.org> Message-ID: <3EE86F84.20602@faireal.net> Christian HJ Wiesner wrote: >Hi Liisachan, Hi Ayaka, > >i am turning to you, searching help in a specific matter about >subtitles. You may be aware that the last sample file i made, with 5.1 >AAC audio and full DVD resolution ( XviD ) was a big success, attracting >many users to 'sniff' into using matroska first time ( even people from >Ahead tested it and were delighted i heard ;-) ... lol ). > >I have plans for another, better file now, and i want to propagate this >on all video related mailing lists and webboards to show them the >'power' of matroska :-) . The file will be 'Starwars Episode 2 - attack >of the clones' , like the first time, i also think i will use the same >scene again, dont know yet, be 10 MB big again ( 30 s ) and have the >following features : > >- 'native' MPEG4 matroska video stream, made with DaveEL's alpha >'avs2matroska' tool, which is not VfW based but using xvid.dll, >dynamically linked to it. Resolution will be 720 x 432 again, and the AR >flag in the matroska header set to 2.35 again ( 16:9 anamorphic ) ; >this will be a native MPEG4 mkv file for the first time, so i cna use >b-frames unlimited, without having to use packed bitstream or dummy >frames ( = lagging ) > >- AAC 5.1 English ; track nr. #1 > >- AAC 5.1 German ; track nr. #2 ; both AACs are made from the >AC3 on a PAL DVD, via BeSweet ( export to 5.1 AIFF ), resampled to 44.1 >KHz using SSRC and then encoded to 5.1 AAC using the latest Nero >5.5.10.35 ; they sound excellent ( already on my HDD @home ;-) ) > >- Ogg Vorbis commentators track , q = 0.001 , 48 kbps > >- UTF8 subtitles ( all downloaded from a Czech subtitles server, big >thanks to Gabest for the link ) : > >* French >* Spanish >* Portugese >* Danish >* Swedish >* Finnish >* Czech > >Unfortunately some of them were made for 23,97 fps originally, so i have >no idea yet how to make them match with my 25 fps PAL video, but i hope >to find a way somehow ... > > You can just re-time it timing for a 30sec-clip should be as easy as a joke well, but there should be some tools to convert the sub speed >Now here is my question to you both : > >Is there any chance to get japanese, korean or chinese language >subtitles for this movie, and if ever possible in 25 fps ? Main problem >is, i cant read the stuff ( naturally ;-) ), so i couldnt check if the >timing was correct .... can you help me here ? I hope there are >subtitles server in Japan also, and the European servers dont offer too >much Asian character stuff ;) .... > > just send me the English version and the raw, then i ll translate it by myself, into English as for 25fps, you dont have to worry, because i can time it by myself tho i do need the raw to do that Unfortunately we have no Korean/Chinese translators but... * French * Spanish * Portugese * Danish * Swedish * Finnish * Czech all of these in your list are of W. Europe as Windows code page if you want to show Matroska s power, how about adding Russian or Polish or Hungarian or Ukrainian? I think my friends from these lang areas could help you :) Liisachan PS. I used this Matroska logo that i like best so far, for our webpage. http://ld-anime.faireal.net/guide/matroska > >@Mosu : what is missing in mplayer to be able to view a 'native' MPEG4 >mkv file ? libavcodec should handle it fine ? > >@Cyrius : Any reason why VdubMod could screw up with such a high number >of streams ? did you test this before ? > >@Gabest : vsfilter can switch between all these subs streams ? > >@menno : Would i run into problems telling the AAC were encoded with >latest Nero ? Dont think so, but just to be sure > >@DaveEL : Dont worry mate, the preparation of this file will take about >3 - 4 weeks i guess ! No pressure on you here ;) .... > > >Thanks for helping me !! Lets make sure this sample file will kick ass >to show the world the power of matroska :-) !! > >Christian > >http://www.matroska.org > > > > > http://www.matroska.org From Liisachan at faireal.net Thu Jun 12 14:27:38 2003 From: Liisachan at faireal.net (Liisachan) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 21:27:38 +0900 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Japanese and/or Korean/Chinese subtitles for my new matroska smaple file In-Reply-To: <3EE86F84.20602@faireal.net> References: <3EE861D3.8030904@matroska.org> <3EE86F84.20602@faireal.net> Message-ID: <3EE871BA.7010002@faireal.net> >> >> >just send me the English version and the raw, >then i ll translate it by myself, into English > > sorry, i mean "into Japanese" in this case ^^; http://www.matroska.org From suiryc at yahoo.com Fri Jun 13 17:50:32 2003 From: suiryc at yahoo.com (Cyrius) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 08:50:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Japanese and/or Korean/Chinese subtitles for my new matroska smaple file In-Reply-To: <3EE861D3.8030904@matroska.org> Message-ID: <20030613155032.77058.qmail@web12902.mail.yahoo.com> --- Christian HJ Wiesner wrote: > ... > @Cyrius : Any reason why VdubMod could screw up with > such a high number > of streams ? did you test this before ? Well 2 problems here :p 1. Native MPEG4 stream. We don't handle IDs other than the one for VFW (with FourCC) since we _need_ to know which codec to call (VfW, FourCC) to decompress the video. 2. For the moment we can mux subs in mkv, but not edit them. Moreover we can only handle 'linear' (i.e. no overlapping allowed) subs for each track (VirtualDub doesn't work on timestamps). The number of streams in the file shouldn't be a problem however :p. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com http://www.matroska.org From ishikawa at life-jp.net Wed Jun 18 17:23:25 2003 From: ishikawa at life-jp.net (Ayaka Ishikawa) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 00:23:25 +0900 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Japanese and/or Korean/Chinese subtitles for my new matroska smaplefile In-Reply-To: <3EE861D3.8030904@matroska.org> References: <3EE861D3.8030904@matroska.org> Message-ID: <20030618152151.53969.qmail@smx05.admiral.ne.jp> Hi. I'm sorry for my late reply.. > Now here is my question to you both : > > Is there any chance to get japanese, korean or chinese language > subtitles for this movie, and if ever possible in 25 fps ? Main problem > is, i cant read the stuff ( naturally ;-) ), so i couldnt check if the > timing was correct .... can you help me here ? I hope there are > subtitles server in Japan also, and the European servers dont offer too > much Asian character stuff ;) .... If you need offical japanese subtitles, I will rent the DVD. And if Japanese edition is 25fps, I will be able to capture it. To my regret, I don't have the means to get Korean/Chainese subtitle. http://www.matroska.org From spyder at matroska.org Wed Jun 18 19:54:35 2003 From: spyder at matroska.org (John Cannon) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:54:35 -0500 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Japanese and/or Korean/Chinese subtitles for my new matroska smaplefile References: <3EE861D3.8030904@matroska.org> <20030618152151.53969.qmail@smx05.admiral.ne.jp> Message-ID: <001301c3361b$49a40a10$7537fea9@johnc> > Hi. > I'm sorry for my late reply.. > > > Now here is my question to you both : > > > > Is there any chance to get japanese, korean or chinese language > > subtitles for this movie, and if ever possible in 25 fps ? Main problem > > is, i cant read the stuff ( naturally ;-) ), so i couldnt check if the > > timing was correct .... can you help me here ? I hope there are > > subtitles server in Japan also, and the European servers dont offer too > > much Asian character stuff ;) .... > > If you need offical japanese subtitles, I will rent the DVD. > And if Japanese edition is 25fps, I will be able to capture it. > > To my regret, I don't have the means to get Korean/Chainese subtitle. Hmmm, I have some Chinese and Korean Subs on a DVD i think.... Lemme know what exactly you need. :) http://www.matroska.org From ishikawa at life-jp.net Thu Jun 19 18:03:33 2003 From: ishikawa at life-jp.net (Ayaka Ishikawa) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 01:03:33 +0900 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Japanese and/or Korean/Chinese subtitles for my new matroska smaplefile In-Reply-To: <001301c3361b$49a40a10$7537fea9@johnc> References: <001301c3361b$49a40a10$7537fea9@johnc> Message-ID: <20030619160336.42297.qmail@smx05.admiral.ne.jp> Hi > Hmmm, I have some Chinese and Korean Subs on a DVD i think.... Lemme know > what exactly you need. :) Christian said > The file will be 'Starwars Episode 2 - attack > of the clones' if you have it, plz help him. http://www.matroska.org From chris at matroska.org Sun Jun 15 00:57:07 2003 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 00:57:07 +0200 Subject: [matroska-general] Some more flaming about MPC/matroska/MCF on #vorbis Message-ID: <3EEBA843.4050208@matroska.org> http://wiesneronline.net/ircmirror/ViewLog.jsp?file=%23vorbis.XiphIRC.20030615.log&live=false&buffNum=0 Lets be honest, Emmett is not an official member of Xiph anymore, but this, and the way the other Vorbis zealots eat everything spilled out of him crazy mouth, simply sucks .... Christian Session Start: Sun Jun 15 00:00:00 2003 Session Ident: #vorbis [00:03] * justin has joined #vorbis [00:03] * viper has joined #vorbis can someone let me know if MPC is open source, royalty free, etc, etc... basically the legal status of MpegPlus, MusePack, MPC whatever you want to call it they are all really reallynon-free You can get source for betas if SV8 encoder, decoder is fully open source aren't those three the same thing Patent status is unclear jack: bullshit anything based on mpeg is non free. [00:04] * roconnor has left #vorbis MPC was closed source last i heard. ...only if it infringes on actual patents the betas for the latest version are not, decoder was always open source so they don't compete with Ogg Vorbis as far of definitly free goes it's situation is unclear Garf: if it's debatable, its usually not worth pursuing for a free alternative IMHO well, vorbis is debatable too only by goo dlawyers :) nobody's found a patent...yet try asking jack for a signed guarantee you wont get sued for using vorbis try asking IBM for the same :) intellectual property is a crap shoot. IP = no such thing IMHO but the different is that our stated purposed is freedom. and we try pretty hard. well, then you understand that the difference between MPC and Vorbis is mostly warm fuzzy feelings to my knowledge everyone else's purpose is 'sound good' perhaps. but I would stream/downloads .ogg before AAC+, MPC, MP3 for royalty/legal reasons so Vorbis doesn't sound good? no, but that's not the #1 goal. vorbis sounds terrible just kidding :) jack: so, whats your point then? :) my poin tis that we do everything possible to ensure freedom while most of the others just don't care about that issue at all isn't vorbis infringing some wavelet patent or something, or the video codec is for .ogg container [00:09] * viper has quit IRC (Client Exit: ) jack: that's respectable too we are not using wavelets in vorbis. the wavelets in tarket are over 30 years old i believe. [00:09] * |DB| has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 180 seconds) so they are certainly in teh clear jack: than what's the "possible" breach of copyright/ so-called IP in vorbis that you earlier spoke of perhaps some no name company could show up with a patent nobody has seen before wavelets themselves yes, so are the mpc base technologies but we're pretty sure that won't happen. it's the applications that get patented jack: do you guys do patent research? jack: perhaps you need a patent lawyer we have done research in the past yes. still much to be done. jack: microsoft has many faces you know :) jack: i wouldn't be suprised if they tried to burn vorbis [00:13] * OldMan prays for the hastening of government-granted monopolist hegemony, so everybody else has an incentive to say "fuck the government-granted monopolists" and get on with life as free men. We spend WAY too much time and effort worrying about it. Microsoft can bite me. The USPTO can bite me. And the sooner we all get on with saying "bite me," the sooner we can get back to enjoying our music, when and how we see fit. heh. well do know that Microsoft bites hard and doesn't let go :) [00:14] * whitestar applauds OldMan justin: they can't do shit to me without initiating violence. You have acquired much wisdom in your years, sir. justin: I don't use any of their products, and I've never given them money for anything. OldMan: haven't you seent that movie justin: so in order to control me in any way, they would have to physically enter my house and drag me out in handcuffs. OldMan: can't say that i haven't given them money, but I "wisened" up jack : justin has a point here. Once Vorbis gets too sucessful, the big players may try to kick your asses, searching for patent infringements OldMan: I bought my mac with lots of propreitary software thinking it would make life "easier" and "liberate me" (thank you apple PR) when in fact it just restricted me with an army of robot guards OldMan: word offers nothing that LaTeX/ascii can't solve except for "save as .doc" and about MPV : it would be OSs already, but there is a good reason not to open the source now ChrHJW_zZZzz: the point is pretty thin. If you think I'd stop using xiph.org codecs 'cuz Microsoft doesn't like 'em, or 'cuz the government says they're bad, you're a silly person. MPCV OldMan ? OldMan: I just hate the way that propreitary developers/companies ASSUME that everyone is inherintly dumb or somethign nobody tells you to stop using anything OldMan: I back up my first amendment with my second amendment! ChrHJW_zZZzz: furthermore, if you think that set of circumstances would serve to stop the development community, that's also silly. I personally would make sure the source code (which I have for vorbis and flac, though I haven't snagged it for speex yet) would wind up on GNUnet and freenet. you dont get my point OldMan: microsoft probably has a secret army in a small island to "deal with" such issues So, in case we've missed the point of my little tirade so far... if "the big players may try to kick our asses," those "big players" can bite me, too. :) and i cant type with one hand :) jack was saying MPC is not free ChrHJW_zZZzz: emacs has voice recognition IIRC I'm waiting for emacs as a kernel module ok, i have my both hands back :) [00:23] * ChrHJW_zZZzz is now known as ChrisHJW ew [00:23] * Bruns has joined #vorbis [00:23] * wild_boar has joined #vorbis MPC was opensource already, but Frank has a good reason not to do it, Garf can tell i guess please do Garf if the SV7 sources would go online now, SV8 would die a hard death SV? and the proposed changes for SV8 are huge, requiring a lot of time [00:24] * wildboar has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 180 seconds) StreamVersion i can't beleive I spent over $200 in a month ordering pizza [00:25] * justin orders pizza online Only reason I know of that SV7 source isn't open is to prevent people messing with the encoder and marking files as 'stable'. Garf knows much more about that than i do, i am just a helping hand for Frank SV8 code I have seen includes SV7 stuff IIRC i should instead donate to the vorbis and eat toast the bitstream is completely different, and Frank will add much mores tuff, like DRC and multichannel Is MPC free? yes Open != Free. but not opensource yet exaclty it's opensource, but not all encoders are open Emmett: link him to some RMS speeches .ogg ChrisHJW: one sec... Tell me if I'm wrong, but MPC/Musepack is still subject to MPEG licensure and patents? nobody knows ask a lawyer Okay, then you probably shouldn't call it free. its unclear, but recent searches have failed to find anybody wanting to license the only patent that is used clearly http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/audio/audio.html learn what Free really means.. lol :) Whether the patent is licensed or not, that doesn't mean it's an open and free standard. define open and free standard whether a format is CALLED patent free or not, that doesnt prevent it from maybe violating patents nobody knows of Garf: download those oggs on that link, order pizza, listen, and you will know By 'open,' I mean that the full specification is available, and you can create things with it out of the box. By 'Free,' I mean that you can do those things with it without making yourself (or your users) liable to anyone else. [00:30] * adiabatic has joined #vorbis I think only 'the full specification is available' would be tricky. Just like ogg went for years without a full spec :) lol I don't think those are terribly difficult things to get one's head around. you`re not a coder Emmett and i am not one also I'm not? but your specs sucked for a long time You'll have to pardon me for a bit, here. I am not here to start any flaming, i love Vorbis Christian, you have run your mouth several billion times and pissed off people left and right. I have done the same. The difference between us is that at the end of the day, I like to think I've done something useful. I am not here to start any flaming, i love Vorbis I am not here to start any flaming, i love Vorbis I am not here to start any flaming, i love Vorbis Whereas you're a scenewhore that really has no fucking clue what's going on. [00:33] * ChrisHJW is now known as ChrHJW_zZZzz nite Emmett Seeya later. [00:33] * justin casts Wrath of God no flames leave this project alone, its doing better without you ahhhh sorry people I don't exactly see you stepping up to the plate to put in volunteer time. jack : if you fell like talking to me, you are always welcome on irc.corecodec.com #matroska [00:34] * ChrHJW_zZZzz has left #vorbis Mission accomplished, eh? [00:35] * Bruns has quit IRC (Client Exit: ) wth was that guy anyway? Looks like it. He's ChristianHJW. He's sound and fury, etc. just another well-known gasbag, eh? He's the guy that flooded vorbis-dev about a year ago with 'Matroska is better than Ogg,' etc. Not quite as notorious as ESR but working on it? :) Not quite. Christian is the guy that allies himself with projects, hoping that sooner or later, he'll 'advise' one that succeeds, and he'll be Very Important Indeed. It's actually quite the joke with a few people around here and other places. [00:37] * OldMan arches an eyebrow. Rob Levin has a pseudonym? "Hey, it's a new project, and the people involved are claiming complete superiority over existing projects. Surprise! Christian's there!" so, what's this Matroska thing anyway? too much buzzwordy stuff in that project Matroska is a MCF-breakaway MCF is an attempt to hold virtually every kind of encoded multimedia in one file by using an extensible markup format. is it meant to compete with vorbis? No, it's meant to compete with Ogg. ohhhhhh, that one? Yah. whats the website? http://sourceforge.net/projects/matroska/? I think mcf is at mcf.sf.net Isn't that the one in which their status page showed that the IRC channel and Sourceforge project page came well before the production of any real code? Does it do anything yet? Emmett: XML# should be used for everything!@#! lol I believe the MCF guys have gotten a few things working, but the Matroska team hasn't. I may be incorrect. [00:40] * zinx makes a programming language based on XML zinx: too late... XSLT is turing-complete already. hehe Now you're not being funny or clever, but just reinventing the wheel. :) You flamed him away with a bunch of insults that had nothing to do with the issue he was defending. Congratulations, you're still an example of someone that has no fucking clue on how to argue without acting like a 14 year old. The aim is to get rid of all bad legacy in existing containers and build something new that could last 10 years. interesting How does that compare to ogg? did they arbitrarily pick 10 years? "10 years" sounds nice. i think 7 is better Garf: I've debated him here on these issues more times than I care to count. But that's not a multiple of 2. Hell, it's not even an even number. hey, don't make fun of me I'm fourteen years old. adiabatic: it's better than even, it's prime About WHAT issues have you debated him? But you can't chop prime numbers in half and still get an integer. [00:43] * whitestar nods Patent and licensing issues, the extensibility of Matroska, etc. XML4evar!@ MPC and licensing, as well. Our audio format isn't even binary! It's in XML! hey... has anybody ever contrasted the pros & cons of MCF vs. Ogg? MCF droolz; Ogg rulez adiabatic: ahem. 2. OldMan: It's been extremely difficult. MCF hasn't had code until extremely recently. at least ogg does have one portable device support, albeit alpha Blasted corner case. well, how about the *intended* capabilities of each? The thing that started MCF was someone's misinterpretation about how Ogg handles timestamps. So the MCF team has said, 'Hey, we can do (feature X) where Ogg cannot.' And people familiar with Ogg have said, 'I've been implementing (feature X) with Ogg for the past year.' heh. The website is a bit thin on details at the moment. Looks like it's ALL just sour grapes and hot air at the moment. And a bit thin on real code, most likely. I do think MCF has a future in things like archiving and authoring formats. I think competition is good, choice is good, standards are good Let me know when these folks get around to providing any of the above. Agreed on all three, OldMan. i think free software leaves money for pizza But when the competition provided is mainly people wanking on vorbis-dev about the Once and Future Container That Has No Code, it's a pain in the ass for people who are actually trying to get things done. Open Source tends to work best as a code-first game. Emmett: that doesn't fit my definition of "competition." Here's my idea -> Here's my idea expressed as source code. and then (and only then) mad pimpage. Emmett: good point [00:50] * whitestar throws up mad props to Emmett's mad pimpage But some people still don't get it, which causes irritation to those who do. i think companies do too much changing, testing, market analysis and in the end really that is how they create artificial needs and wants. its not like their code is born out of practicality/need. .. sort of like how you work to drive and drive to work' I don't know if I agree with that. If the needs and wants are too artificial, no one will buy. http://sourceforge.net/projects/mcf This Project Has Not Released Any Files and we will reduce your capacity to communicate into a query search, text speaking paper clip and the news story said they've got a windows dll thingy in development that can do something and a java video muxer? youch. Emmett: dude. our WHOLE ecomony rests on AIR. this is why i buy gold. it's a mindless system of nothyingness. But here's something that may interest you. The Matroska team intends to maintain their own standard, as a self-sufficient standards body. Want your codec in there? It needs an ID. What will this ID cost you? Oh... they're not prepared to answer that quite yet. Hmm, I need to get more gold. [00:55] * whitestar writes that down Emmett: hah What will Vorbis 2 cost? whitestar: seriously. ive read many people who preddict the downfall of the us economy. One *meelyon* dollars. justin: I know, I wasn't joking. justin: Where do you keep yours? justin: People have been predicting the downfall of the US economy for years. [00:56] * OldMan buys gold from ebay. It's usually pretty close to spot price. whitestar: e-gold of course That's a good idear. As well as the eventual rebellion and fall of the American Empire. Emmett: it's quite probably soon IMHO justin: I don't think so. If that happens, the TERRISTS HAEV ONE!@ Remember, there's some joker in office who Wasn't Really Elected, and he's sent hundreds of thousands of people overseas to kill brown people. We've got concentration camps and who knows what else, and no one has yet violently reacted against the commonwealth from inside it. so what do you all think of DRM in WM9, longhorn Do you know why? justin: I highly *doubt* all the successful businessmen and investors who have driven the economy thus far are just going to let all their hard work magically disappear. There are a lot of stupid investors, and the federal reserve could probably do with a few more Austrian-school economists on staff, but it's not going to just go away quietly. no why Because an armed revolution would have to be on during 'Joe Millionaire.' http://www.matroska.org From steve.lhomme at free.fr Sun Jun 15 10:16:02 2003 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 10:16:02 +0200 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Some more flaming about MPC/matroska/MCF on #vorbis In-Reply-To: <3EEBA843.4050208@matroska.org> References: <3EEBA843.4050208@matroska.org> Message-ID: <3EEC2B42.4070001@free.fr> He's the guy that flooded vorbis-dev about a year ago with 'Matroska is better than Ogg,' etc. Yeah... And sadly they didn't listen ;) too much buzzwordy stuff in that project Seems like some time will pass until this kind of bullshit stops. Probably when we'll get wider acceptance. Matroska is a MCF-breakaway MCF is an attempt to hold virtually every kind of encoded multimedia in one file by using an extensible markup format. And some people don't know the facts (MCF uses no markup format). I believe the MCF guys have gotten a few things working, but the Matroska team hasn't. I may be incorrect. More wrong facts (the MCF guy that got something working was me). Patent and licensing issues, the extensibility of Matroska, etc About this whole sterile patent debate. I can't think of a single OSS project that has been stopped/closed/whatever because of a patent. So the paranoid people will care more than anything else. And spend time on useless issues. The thing that started MCF was someone's misinterpretation about how Ogg handles timestamps. Terribly wrong. Theora-dev prooved us terribly right. Looks like it's ALL just sour grapes and hot air at the moment. Are these people trapped in a prison where they can only access 1 or 2 websites ? But when the competition provided is mainly people wanking on vorbis-dev about the Once and Future Container That Has No Code, it's a pain in the ass for people who are actually trying to get things done. Open Source tends to work best as a code-first game. But some people still don't get it, which causes irritation to those who do. The old try/test/modify hacking method has not proven better than the think/specify/code method... Maybe only people coming from the research&dev world can understand that... My band is called Too Many Fools Following Too Many Rules... That applies to coding too :) What pleases me is that these days all this "underground" work is proving how right we were. What will this ID cost you? Probably as much as a new codec in Ogg. Oh... they're not prepared to answer that quite yet. Again, wrong facts. PS: What is Emmett's address ? I'd like to send this to him. http://www.matroska.org From steve.lhomme at free.fr Sun Jun 15 14:08:39 2003 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 14:08:39 +0200 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Some more flaming about MPC/matroska/MCF on #vorbis In-Reply-To: <3EEC2B42.4070001@free.fr> References: <3EEBA843.4050208@matroska.org> <3EEC2B42.4070001@free.fr> Message-ID: <3EEC61C7.7060900@free.fr> BTW, on the subject of how much matroska is free... Consider the amount of money spent on Xiph (donations), and for example how much Emmett has received, and the amount of money matroska has cost in general to the community... We may be able to achieve all that we promise without ever asking any money ! http://www.matroska.org From moritz at bunkus.org Sun Jun 15 14:05:51 2003 From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 14:05:51 +0200 Subject: [matroska-general] libebml+libmatroska 0.4.4 Message-ID: <20030615120551.GE1739@bunkus.org> Hi everyone, I have the pleasure to officially announce libebml and libmatroska v0.4.4. They are available from http://www.matroska.org/ for both Windows and Unix/Linux. This version features better support for UTF-8 on all platforms, introduces some new elements, a much better structure for all tag elements and a lot of stuff that I can't remember right now - robux4 aka Steve Lhomme will surely reply to this mail and clear things up a bit ;) -- ==> Ciao, Mosu (Moritz Bunkus) http://www.matroska.org From steve.lhomme at free.fr Sun Jun 15 21:01:38 2003 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 21:01:38 +0200 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: libebml+libmatroska 0.4.4 In-Reply-To: <20030615120551.GE1739@bunkus.org> References: <20030615120551.GE1739@bunkus.org> Message-ID: <3EECC292.1020700@free.fr> Moritz Bunkus wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I have the pleasure to officially announce libebml and libmatroska > v0.4.4. They are available from http://www.matroska.org/ for both > Windows and Unix/Linux. > > This version features better support for UTF-8 on all platforms, > introduces some new elements, a much better structure for all tag > elements and a lot of stuff that I can't remember right now - robux4 aka > Steve Lhomme will surely reply to this mail and clear things up a bit ;) Well, I have a very short time memory... So I don't remember all the changes since 0.4.3... All I know is that the Tags are now usable, the TimeSlice has a new upper level element. For the rest only minor changes... http://www.matroska.org From moritz at bunkus.org Sun Jun 15 16:44:07 2003 From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 16:44:07 +0200 Subject: [matroska-general] mkvtoolnix 0.4.4 Message-ID: <20030615144406.GF1739@bunkus.org> Hi guys and girls, I've just released v0.4.4 of mktvoolnix. Here's the ChangeLog: 2003-06-15 Moritz Bunkus * Several options now need an explicity track ID to specify which tracks of an input file the option should be applied to. These options include --atracks, --vtracks, --stracks, --sync, --default-track, --cues and --language. * The Matroska reader now handles track selection correctly. 2003-06-13 Moritz Bunkus * Added an option for identifying input files and their track types. This release breaks the old syntax for the options mentioned above. This is especially important for any GUI which might use mkvmerge. On the other hand the new syntax is much more flexible than the old one - these options do not apply to all tracks in a file but to only one specific track (you can still use -1 as the track ID and hit all tracks). For details read the man page/HTML documentation. A note to the Windows users: Several people have reported crashes in the AVI reader on non-Windows-XP systems. Unfortunately I don't have access to any Win2k/Win98 machines at the moment, neither do I have a spare hard drive on which to install it. So please be patient with me until I've found a solution. Thanks. Get the sources/binaries at http://www.bunkus.org/videotools/mkvtoolnix/ -- ==> Ciao, Mosu (Moritz Bunkus) http://www.matroska.org From chris at matroska.org Tue Jun 17 01:32:43 2003 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 01:32:43 +0200 Subject: [matroska-general] Best matroska Guides online Message-ID: <3EEE539B.7050705@matroska.org> http://ld-anime.faireal.net/ thanks Liisachan :) ! robux4 was already pointing to your site on IRC once, but i guess its worth being mentioned here again. Christian http://www.matroska.org From Liisachan at faireal.net Wed Jun 18 07:42:51 2003 From: Liisachan at faireal.net (Liisachan) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:42:51 +0900 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Best matroska Guides online In-Reply-To: <3EEE539B.7050705@matroska.org> References: <3EEE539B.7050705@matroska.org> Message-ID: <3EEFFBDB.7040403@faireal.net> Christian HJ Wiesner wrote: >http://ld-anime.faireal.net/ > >thanks Liisachan :) ! robux4 was already pointing to your site on IRC >once, but i guess its worth being mentioned here again. > >Christian > >http://www.matroska.org > > > > > Thank you for your compliment. That page is just unofficial, and not intended to be an official guide. It's just a short and easy introduction, especially for fansubbers and anime fans. You called it "best guide," but it is not a complete guide at all. I didnt explain how to mux MKV. I didnt even expalin how you can replay MKV. I just made a small note to explain why we are looking forward to Matroska, as a real user, not as a developer. As you can see, that page is available in 8 languages atm, maybe a few ohter languages will be added later. Although it is just a very short introduction, feel free to use these pages for any purposes, if needed at all. Liisachan http://www.matroska.org From Liisachan at faireal.net Wed Jun 18 07:54:20 2003 From: Liisachan at faireal.net (Liisachan) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:54:20 +0900 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Best matroska Guides online In-Reply-To: <3EEFFBDB.7040403@faireal.net> References: <3EEE539B.7050705@matroska.org> <3EEFFBDB.7040403@faireal.net> Message-ID: <3EEFFE8C.30409@faireal.net> Liisachan wrote: >Christian HJ Wiesner wrote: > > > >>http://ld-anime.faireal.net/ >> >>thanks Liisachan :) ! robux4 was already pointing to your site on IRC >>once, but i guess its worth being mentioned here again. >> >>Christian >> >>http://www.matroska.org >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >Thank you for your compliment. >That page is just unofficial, and not intended to be an official guide. >It's just a short and easy introduction, especially for fansubbers and >anime fans. > >You called it "best guide," but it is not a complete guide at all. >I didnt explain how to mux MKV. I didnt even expalin how you can replay MKV. >I just made a small note to explain why we are looking forward to Matroska, >as a real user, not as a developer. > >As you can see, that page is available in 8 languages atm, maybe a few >ohter languages will be added later. >Although it is just a very short introduction, feel free to use these >pages for any purposes, if needed at all. > >Liisachan > >http://www.matroska.org > > > > > BTW: the url for that page is, http://ld-anime.faireal.net/guide/matroska/ http://www.matroska.org From chris at matroska.org Wed Jun 18 08:14:16 2003 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:14:16 +0200 Subject: [matroska-general] Cancelling the matroska project on sourceforge.net Message-ID: <3EF00338.8060004@matroska.org> Hi, recent events with Emmett were showing again that the un-updated status of the project pages on sourceforge are probably more hurting us than we think, as corecodec.org is not really well known still. Now, as Steve has reserved the matroska.free.fr webspace with 100 MB for us, and the website is aleady fuly loaded from the cc.org CVS server, we should drive the cancellaton of matroska.sf.net forward. This has to be done in several steps : 1. Upload recent index.html to cc.org webspace, via FTP ; Pamel "crispy-skin", can you do this by chance ? 2. Point zoneedit for matroska.org from matroska.sf.net to matroska.corecodec.org ; I can do this, but it will take 2 days to get effective 3. Upload all our current software to matroska.free.fr 4. Change all download links on the webpage to the new webspace 5. Ask sf.net admins to cancel matroska.sf.net ; I've done this once for an old project i had founded, so i know how to do that Anybody objects ? Christian http://www.matroska.org From steve.lhomme at free.fr Wed Jun 18 10:06:34 2003 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:06:34 +0200 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: Cancelling the matroska project on sourceforge.net References: <3EF00338.8060004@matroska.org> Message-ID: <001601c33570$89433c00$0c7ba8c0@ing12> > Hi, > > recent events with Emmett were showing again that the un-updated status > of the project pages on sourceforge are probably more hurting us than we > think, as corecodec.org is not really well known still. > > Now, as Steve has reserved the matroska.free.fr webspace with 100 MB for > us, and the website is aleady fuly loaded from the cc.org CVS server, we > should drive the cancellaton of matroska.sf.net forward. This has to be > done in several steps : > > 1. Upload recent index.html to cc.org webspace, via FTP ; Pamel > "crispy-skin", can you do this by chance ? > > 2. Point zoneedit for matroska.org from matroska.sf.net to > matroska.corecodec.org ; I can do this, but it will take 2 days to get > effective > > 3. Upload all our current software to matroska.free.fr > > 4. Change all download links on the webpage to the new webspace > > 5. Ask sf.net admins to cancel matroska.sf.net ; I've done this once for > an old project i had founded, so i know how to do that > > Anybody objects ? No, I fully agree. Will CC be able to understand that www.matroska.org is actually matroska.corecodec.org ??? (virtual hosting) http://www.matroska.org From moritz at bunkus.org Thu Jun 19 15:47:59 2003 From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:47:59 +0200 Subject: [matroska-general] need sample files Message-ID: <20030619134759.GH2195@bunkus.org> Hi guys. Due to the hot weather, bad karma, not paying my respect to the Eleven Elder Gods and stuff like that two of my hard drives decided to vanish in a big *puff* of magic smoke and stopped working on Tuesday. Needless to say that one of those drives contained my holy sample files, and even more needless to say that this is the very one drive which I don't have a backup from. So I'm turning to my fellow humble humans and ask you to provide me with some sample files. What I need: - AVI files with dropped frames but which play perfectly (regarding A/V sync), - multi channel ( > 2) audio files (WAV, AAC, AC3, Vorbis), - SSA, ASS, both 'normal' files and ones saved in Unicode format, - some more subtitles (SRT) - some more AVI files All files don't have to be large, but should be 'large enough' to 'prove their point' ;) If you have such files please upload some to my FTP server: mosu.no-ip.com, username upload, password only. And please chose a filename which makes it obvious what's in it ;) Thanks for your help. -- ==> Ciao, Mosu (Moritz Bunkus) http://www.matroska.org From chris at matroska.org Sat Jun 21 01:16:16 2003 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 01:16:16 +0200 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: [matroska-devel] Re: Cancelling the matroska project on sourceforge.net In-Reply-To: <002001c33570$c9e9d520$0c7ba8c0@ing12> References: <3EF00338.8060004@matroska.org> <002001c33570$c9e9d520$0c7ba8c0@ing12> Message-ID: <3EF395C0.9040205@matroska.org> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=758218&group_id=1&atid=200001 matroska.sf.net is marked for deletion .... ChristianHJW http://www.matroska.org From chris at matroska.org Sun Jun 22 11:39:41 2003 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 11:39:41 +0200 Subject: [matroska-general] First fansubber groups making matroska releases : anime-extreme.com Message-ID: <3EF5795D.1040006@matroska.org> Hi, lamer_de was pointing me to this small anime fnasubbing group here : http://www.anime-xtreme.com/ They were making their first release as .mkv :-) ! Lets hope many will follow guys, the anime people and their requirements for fancy subtitles effects can carry the message of matroska's power to the outside world very quickly, just look at Liisachan .... good news this morning ! Christian http://www.matroska.org From theo_brendel at hotmail.com Mon Jun 23 11:10:24 2003 From: theo_brendel at hotmail.com (Steven Mingam) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 11:10:24 +0200 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: First fansubber groups making matroska releases : anime-extreme.com References: <3EF5795D.1040006@matroska.org> Message-ID: errrm, i wouldn't qualify them 'fansubbers' but oh well .... they do narue no sekai which is not licensed at least .... I will the first french fansubber to release in matroska then ! (and i've my leechers-matroska pack ready here : http://breizhbill.baroud.free.fr/-=%20Ishin%20Anime%20Francais%20=-/BillVide oPack.exe ) "Christian HJ Wiesner" a ?crit dans le message news: 3EF5795D.1040006 at matroska.org... > > Hi, > > lamer_de was pointing me to this small anime fnasubbing group here : > http://www.anime-xtreme.com/ > > They were making their first release as .mkv :-) ! Lets hope many will > follow guys, the anime people and their requirements for fancy subtitles > effects can carry the message of matroska's power to the outside world > very quickly, just look at Liisachan .... good news this morning ! > > Christian > > http://www.matroska.org > > http://www.matroska.org From chris at matroska.org Sun Jun 22 17:05:31 2003 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 17:05:31 +0200 Subject: [matroska-general] Need help with subtitles translation for Matrix-Reloaded matroska sample file Message-ID: <3EF5C5BB.20904@matroska.org> Hi, i am turning to the supporters of matroska from all around the world, asking for help. http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=333041#post333041 I posted a support request on Doom9, maybe the biggest coomunity out there supporting us, and hope to get some response. If you dont have an account on Doom9, just send me the translation and i will update the thread, to avoid double work. For the roadbook : mf's matrix trailer will not make the starwars sample i planned redundant, but the starwars sample will follow it later with SSA subs and several audio streams in it ( as you know our DSF doesnt suport that yet, so its maybe not good advertising it a lot ;) ) . Thanks a lot ! Chrsitian http://www.matroska.org From moritz at bunkus.org Sun Jun 22 22:10:36 2003 From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 22:10:36 +0200 Subject: [matroska-general] mkvtoolnix 0.5.0 released Message-ID: <20030622201036.GL2195@bunkus.org> Hi guys. Time for another release. There have been a lot of changes since the last week. One thing I'd really like you to try is to run mkvmerge under Windows 98/Windows 2000. Several people reported problems and I'm eager to know if the switch from cygwin to mingw32 solved this problem. The release is available at http://www.bunkus.org/videotools/mkvtoolnix/ Windows binaries; http://www.bunkus.org/videotools/mkvtoolnix/win32/mkvtoolnix-0.5.0.zip http://www.bunkus.org/videotools/mkvtoolnix/win32/mkvtoolnix-runtime.zip Ok, here's the ChangeLog since the last version: ----------------------- 2003-06-22 Moritz Bunkus * Released v0.5.0. * Added 'ReferencePriority' element to the known elements for mkvinfo. * Removed "(mkvinfo) " from mkvinfo's output in order to improve readability and save space. * --sub-charset now also needs a track ID. * Modified the verbosity levels for mkvinfo: The seek head subentries and cue subentries will only be shown at level 2 to make the output easier to read. * The language and default track settings are now kept again if not overridden when reading from Matroska files. 2003-06-21 Moritz Bunkus * Added mkvextract which can extract tracks from a Matroska file into other files. 2003-06-20 Moritz Bunkus * Switched from cygwin to MinGW32 for the Windows binaries. * Fixed a double free() on cleanup (after writing the cues) which resulted in a segfault sometimes. * Added a SSA/ASS reader. 2003-06-19 Moritz Bunkus * Support for reading text subtitles from Matroska files. * Made the AAC reader automatically recognize if a MPEG4 AAC file contains the emphasis header (deprecated) or not (current standard). -------------------- -- ==> Ciao, Mosu (Moritz Bunkus) http://www.matroska.org From chris at matroska.org Tue Jun 24 23:24:04 2003 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 23:24:04 +0200 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: [hxdiscuss] Re: Playing RealVideo/RealAudio content from other containers In-Reply-To: <1056479319.23164.39.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <000201c33489$d7ef6460$0200a8c0@jcsston> <1056471543.23162.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1173371420.20030624111854@real.com> <1056479319.23164.39.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <3EF8C174.3080604@matroska.org> Rob Lanphier wrote: >It's entirely possible and legal to have a Matroska file format for the >Helix DNA Client, Server, and Producer, and we would love to see that. >What's not legal is to put RealAudio or RealVideo data in a Matroska >container. This is not a restriction that I'm personally wedded to. Being the big, >stupid company that we are (), it's something that would take a fair >amount of work for me to make the case we should allow this. I'd be >happy to make that case if I had a clear understanding of what new >applications this would enable that aren't possible today. Jory, could >you help describe what this would enable? Rob > > Hi, please allow me to try to answer this question for Jory. I am one of the founders and project admins of matroska and hope to be able to give some good explanations here. matroska is pretty much a complementary thing to realmedia container, as its clearly targeted and designed for video editing and storage, and not for streaming purposes. With some tweaking it may be possible to use matroska for streaming also, but we expect that to be suboptimal, again, it wasnt designed for this purpose. To understand why it may be a nice thing to have Real content in matroska files, its important to understand where it is different than other containers. If audio and video content is going to be put into a matroska file, the muxing app has to follow a number of very strict rules. This requires to make a clear description on our spec pages for *EVERY* compression format thats going to be put into matroska files, such that developers creating apps to read/write matroska files know exactly how it had to be done, and specific for every codec/format. While this policy may look stupid for many developers in first instance, as for them its lifting the value of the container to a level where it shouldnt be really, this has one clear advantage : matroska files can be edited/cut/merged without the need for the editing application to have *ANY* knowledge about the actual content at all. A good example for that is the editing application we are currently working with, a mod of Virtualdub called 'VirtualdubMod' ( you guessed it ;-) ). Its main developer, Julien 'Cyius' Coloon, is limited a lot by the structure of the underlying Virtualdub, which is heavily based on VfW, and thus can only handle VCM and ACM codecs normally. However, the current CVS version is already able to handle a couple of different video codecs for editing and cutting of matroska files, even those without a VCM codec, and basically EVERY audio format we can put into matroska already, being AAC, AC3, DTS, PCM, MP3, MP2, Real ATRAC and Real COOK . The same is valid for the various subtitle formats we support, such as SRT, SSA/ASS and USF. We are in contact with people from the MPEG4IP team to investigate if matroska could be used as a powerful editing container to edit MP4 files, by muxing the MP4 into MKV, edit them, and then mux back into MP4 finally. The same could be done with Realmedia files in matroska editing applications, and with some good will from your side ( like a decoder DLL limited to decode keyframes only ) we could even implement some limited preview functions so the users know where to cut. The architecture on which matroska is based on is a kind of binary version of XML and very flexible, to be able to extend the format for the future, but this is mainly necessary because of the very strict rules to put any kind of content into matroska files. We need to be flexible here, as we dont know yet what future codecs may require, but we certainly dont want to break our general policy of having advanced editability of matroska files. Again, matroska should be seen as a very powerful AVI replacement in first place, and its design goals are pretty much complementary to those of other containers such as Ogg, MP4 and RM. If there is a 'direct competition', it can be seen in MXF and AAF rather, but those wont offer any license free libraries AFAIK. For the user matroska would give him a couple of advantages, like the ability to mix the Real codecs with every other supported compression format, or to use matroska's nice storage features like menues, chapters and attachement files. I hope i could name a couple of advantages why it could be of interest to Real to allow muxing of Real media content into matroska container. In the end, to allow playback of these files from Real's players we had to add matroska parsing capabilities to Helix DNA client, so this may be of interest for you people also ;-). Best regards Christian http://www.matroska.org From robla at real.com Fri Jun 27 01:16:31 2003 From: robla at real.com (Rob Lanphier) Date: 26 Jun 2003 16:16:31 -0700 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: [hxdiscuss] Re: Playing RealVideo/RealAudio content from other containers In-Reply-To: <3EF8C174.3080604@matroska.org> References: <000201c33489$d7ef6460$0200a8c0@jcsston> <1056471543.23162.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1173371420.20030624111854@real.com> <1056479319.23164.39.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3EF8C174.3080604@matroska.org> Message-ID: <1056669390.30415.196.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi Christian, Thanks for the feedback on this. I've forwarded this around internally, and we'll be mulling this over. I can't make any promises that we'll make any changes, and certainly can't make any promises on timeframe, but I will try to keep you (and everyone else) posted. Rob On Tue, 2003-06-24 at 14:24, Christian HJ Wiesner wrote: > Rob Lanphier wrote: > > >It's entirely possible and legal to have a Matroska file format for the > >Helix DNA Client, Server, and Producer, and we would love to see that. > >What's not legal is to put RealAudio or RealVideo data in a Matroska > >container. This is not a restriction that I'm personally wedded to. Being the big, > >stupid company that we are (), it's something that would take a fair > >amount of work for me to make the case we should allow this. I'd be > >happy to make that case if I had a clear understanding of what new > >applications this would enable that aren't possible today. Jory, could > >you help describe what this would enable? Rob > > > > > Hi, > > please allow me to try to answer this question for Jory. I am one of the > founders and project admins of matroska and hope to be able to give some > good explanations here. > > matroska is pretty much a complementary thing to realmedia container, as > its clearly targeted and designed for video editing and storage, and not > for streaming purposes. With some tweaking it may be possible to use > matroska for streaming also, but we expect that to be suboptimal, again, > it wasnt designed for this purpose. > > To understand why it may be a nice thing to have Real content in > matroska files, its important to understand where it is different than > other containers. If audio and video content is going to be put into a > matroska file, the muxing app has to follow a number of very strict > rules. This requires to make a clear description on our spec pages for > *EVERY* compression format thats going to be put into matroska files, > such that developers creating apps to read/write matroska files know > exactly how it had to be done, and specific for every codec/format. > While this policy may look stupid for many developers in first instance, > as for them its lifting the value of the container to a level where it > shouldnt be really, this has one clear advantage : > > matroska files can be edited/cut/merged without the need for the editing > application to have *ANY* knowledge about the actual content at all. A > good example for that is the editing application we are currently > working with, a mod of Virtualdub called 'VirtualdubMod' ( you guessed > it ;-) ). Its main developer, Julien 'Cyius' Coloon, is limited a lot by > the structure of the underlying Virtualdub, which is heavily based on > VfW, and thus can only handle VCM and ACM codecs normally. However, the > current CVS version is already able to handle a couple of different > video codecs for editing and cutting of matroska files, even those > without a VCM codec, and basically EVERY audio format we can put into > matroska already, being AAC, AC3, DTS, PCM, MP3, MP2, Real ATRAC and > Real COOK . The same is valid for the various subtitle formats we > support, such as SRT, SSA/ASS and USF. > > We are in contact with people from the MPEG4IP team to investigate if > matroska could be used as a powerful editing container to edit MP4 > files, by muxing the MP4 into MKV, edit them, and then mux back into MP4 > finally. The same could be done with Realmedia files in matroska editing > applications, and with some good will from your side ( like a decoder > DLL limited to decode keyframes only ) we could even implement some > limited preview functions so the users know where to cut. > > The architecture on which matroska is based on is a kind of binary > version of XML and very flexible, to be able to extend the format for > the future, but this is mainly necessary because of the very strict > rules to put any kind of content into matroska files. We need to be > flexible here, as we dont know yet what future codecs may require, but > we certainly dont want to break our general policy of having advanced > editability of matroska files. Again, matroska should be seen as a very > powerful AVI replacement in first place, and its design goals are pretty > much complementary to those of other containers such as Ogg, MP4 and RM. > If there is a 'direct competition', it can be seen in MXF and AAF > rather, but those wont offer any license free libraries AFAIK. > > For the user matroska would give him a couple of advantages, like the > ability to mix the Real codecs with every other supported compression > format, or to use matroska's nice storage features like menues, chapters > and attachement files. > > I hope i could name a couple of advantages why it could be of interest > to Real to allow muxing of Real media content into matroska container. > In the end, to allow playback of these files from Real's players we had > to add matroska parsing capabilities to Helix DNA client, so this may be > of interest for you people also ;-). > > Best regards > > Christian > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: licensing-unsubscribe at open.helixcommunity.org > For additional commands, e-mail: licensing-help at open.helixcommunity.org -- Rob Lanphier, Helix Community Coordinator - RealNetworks http://helixcommunity.org http://rtsp.org http://realnetworks.com http://www.matroska.org From chris at matroska.org Sun Jun 29 12:31:24 2003 From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 12:31:24 +0200 Subject: [matroska-general] ebuild support for matroska on Gentoo ! Message-ID: <3EFEBFFC.1060507@matroska.org> Hi, good news : http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?p=390718#390718 Monty felt like telling them the old story, like '.. why oh why did they not build it on Ogg, Ogg can do everything they need ...' .... he wouldnt have bothered a couple of weeks ago i guess ;-) ... Some Goodies from #vorbis about that : http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?p=390385#390385 hehe :) it seems xiphmont answered, too. * Parak has joined #vorbis couldn't resist. I hate self-important types who can't bother to dealin facts. * Lucifer applauds xiphmont xiphmont: well done. especially when they're my fact. s xiphmont: the think that sucks is that missinformed fansubbing groups are starting to use matroska :/ xiphmont: www.doom9.com or .org or whatever it is called is one of the epicenters of the missinformation... * Lucifer has quit IRC (Client Exit: Client exiting) In Matroska.org, they're even claiming that Matroska is designed to be streamable (???) perhaps a subset version is. ala Quicktime. I'm not going to claim to be a Mastroska expert, as I'm not. xiphmont: ChristHJW told me they don't have anything for streaming yet The main mastroska people are not incompetent. xiphmont: and they plan to do it realtime converting matroska to ogg, or that's what he told me. That's not the same as it being unable to do it; keep 'design' and 'implementation' seperate. xiphmont: I don't think they are, of course. The problem I have with the main Mastroska folks is that they're overly anal... not entirely but tending toward the 'I don;t agree with you, so I'm taking my toys and going home' sort. Shrug. The real annoyance is that they're going for one huge monolithic abstraction. They want to reinvent every video wheel from scratch (well, except the codecs) I don't really want to get on their cases as they mostly leave me alone. * falter9 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 180 seconds) They don;t bug me, I don;t bug then. that said, I don;t believe in their approach, so I'm content to not bleed resources to them. * falter has joined #vorbis well naptime cya later OTOH, if their fanboys get out of hand, I'm happy to amuse myself by smacking them down ;-) 'night * danx0r has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) * jmspeex has joined #vorbis * viper has joined #vorbis has anyone ever seen mp3gain destroy a lame tag? ogm files are great i like the container format so far is there anything i should know before I mux vorbis audio with divx video? "not really" * Emmett has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 180 seconds) is the ds filter considered "official" i though technically it was not supported to play ogg files Tobias tried pretty hard to support Ogg correctly; the only difference should be the extention. Really. thanks. i just dont want to have problems if the container is revised in the future the container won't be. DIVX mapping may be, but it's unlikely. i am slowly but surely implementing mp3 encapsulation over ogg, for a jukebox application. other than being merely distasteful, is there any reason why this wouldn't work? damn... record companies are getting better at fucking up mp3s on file sharing services they share files with the same name/size/crc?? as other currently existing files viper: md5 or sha1 hash should fail. giFT prolly won't be fooled. because the services dl from multiple sources, dl'ing from the one file will mess up part if not all of your download i dont know how kazaa deems files as the same i guess its all for the better..... they are protecting their rights just an annoyance i wanted a certain copy of a song that has a disapearing lame tag when replay-gained with mp3gain instead, i got about 1/4 of that song, and the rest was fubar even though a month ago, the exact same version of the song exhisted in perfect condition * viper has quit IRC (Client Exit: sleep now) pmisfit: mp3 over ogg? that doens't make sense. You mean mp3 frames inside ogg? omg a matroska ebuild? * jch has joined #vorbis http://www.matroska.org From steve.lhomme at free.fr Sun Jun 29 15:47:06 2003 From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 15:47:06 +0200 Subject: [matroska-general] Re: ebuild support for matroska on Gentoo ! In-Reply-To: <3EFEBFFC.1060507@matroska.org> References: <3EFEBFFC.1060507@matroska.org> Message-ID: <3EFEEDDA.2050407@free.fr> Christian HJ Wiesner wrote: > Hi, > > good news : > > http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?p=390718#390718 > > Monty felt like telling them the old story, like '.. why oh why did they > not build it on Ogg, Ogg can do everything they need ...' .... he > wouldnt have bothered a couple of weeks ago i guess ;-) ... > > Some Goodies from #vorbis about that : > > http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?p=390385#390385 Incredible ! So much bullshit is said on this page. I HAVE to reply. http://www.matroska.org