From chris at matroska.org  Tue Jul  1 10:33:28 2003
From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 10:33:28 +0200
Subject: [matroska-general] Re: [hxdiscuss] Re: Playing RealVideo/RealAudio
 content from other containers
In-Reply-To: <3EF8C174.3080604@matroska.org>
References: <000201c33489$d7ef6460$0200a8c0@jcsston>	 <1056471543.23162.4.camel@localhost.localdomain>	 <1173371420.20030624111854@real.com> <1056479319.23164.39.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3EF8C174.3080604@matroska.org>
Message-ID: <3F014758.10407@matroska.org>

Christian HJ Wiesner wrote:

>Rob Lanphier wrote:
>  
>
>>It's entirely possible and legal to have a Matroska file format for the
>>Helix DNA Client, Server, and Producer, and we would love to see that. 
>>What's not legal is to put RealAudio or RealVideo data in a Matroska
>>container. This is not a restriction that I'm personally wedded to.  Being the big,
>>stupid company that we are (<g>), it's something that would take a fair
>>amount of work for me to make the case we should allow this.  I'd be
>>happy to make that case if I had a clear understanding of what new
>>applications this would enable that aren't possible today.  Jory, could
>>you help describe what this would enable? Rob
>>
Jory,

i thought about this again, and it seems that creating an 'educational 
project' does really not help us here to make rv2mkv available in any 
form, as its clearly a license violation of the Real specs license. The 
problem here is not about distributing binaries, but it seems that even 
coding such a transmuxer could violate legislation in the US.

However, i have come up with a possible solution ( i hope ;-) ) :

You are certainly aware of the discussion thats going on on 
xine-devel at lists.sf.net, gstreamer-devel at lists.sf.net , 
uci-devel at lists.sf.net, mplayer-dev-eng at mplayerhq.hu and 
matroska-devel at freelists.org about the creation of new, powerful 
opensource codec and muxing API. In fact, this would be the solution to 
this problem ;) ....

Think of a Realmedia demuxer plugin, connecting to a common API 
interface, like UMI ( Alex' plans for a 'Universal Muxer Interface', to 
follow UCI later ). This piece of code cant do anything in itself, so it 
clearly doesnt violate the Real specs ( though i am NOT sure about the 
binaries, so 'educational' could become handy again ). However, if being 
linked to a matroska muxer plugin, using the very same API, it shall be 
possible for the user to connect the 2 ( using whatever app ) to 
transmux Real content into MKV container. Same is valid for playback, 
and in fact it would be arguable if a Real demuxer sourceDirectShow 
filter is breaking the license regulations of Real already, as the 
plugin in itself can do nothing without the framework its made for. Of 
course, when being used on DirectShow, in an app like Graphedit, it 
could be used to play RealMedia files, with a suitable decoder filter of 
course.

What you think ? Should we reactivate Steve's Transor API draft  :D ???

Regards

Christian



http://www.matroska.org



From chris at matroska.org  Tue Jul  1 11:52:00 2003
From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 11:52:00 +0200
Subject: [matroska-general] Re: [hxdiscuss] Re: Playing RealVideo/RealAudio
 content from other containers
In-Reply-To: <3F014758.10407@matroska.org>
References: <000201c33489$d7ef6460$0200a8c0@jcsston>	 <1056471543.23162.4.camel@localhost.localdomain>	 <1173371420.20030624111854@real.com> <1056479319.23164.39.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3EF8C174.3080604@matroska.org> <3F014758.10407@matroska.org>
Message-ID: <3F0159C0.4020409@matroska.org>

Christian HJ Wiesner wrote:

>>>Jory,
>>>
>>>i thought about this again, and it seems that creating an 'educational 
>>>project' does really not help us here to make rv2mkv available in any 
>>>form, as its clearly a license violation of the Real specs license. 
>>>
>>>Think of a Realmedia demuxer plugin, connecting to a common API 
>>>interface, like UMI ( Alex' plans for a 'Universal Muxer Interface', to 
>>>follow UCI later ). This piece of code cant do anything in itself, so it 
>>>clearly doesnt violate the Real specs ( though i am NOT sure about the 
>>>binaries, so 'educational' could become handy again ). 
>>>

LOL !!!!

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=56720

Ehehehe, if this was Pamel's idea than he again proved he is my brother 
in thinking ;) .....

Great work guys :D ...

Christian

http://www.matroska.org



From brice.mahieu at capflow.com  Wed Jul  2 11:21:59 2003
From: brice.mahieu at capflow.com (Mahieu Brice)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 11:21:59 +0200
Subject: [matroska-general] How to choose EBML IDs ?
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030702111928.02e165d0@pop.skynet.be>

Hi everybody,
I'm currently designing a binary format based on EBML, and was wondering if 
there are some rules about how to choose class IDs. I know that less 
frequently used IDs should be longer, but are there any other rule ? How 
did you choose the IDs used in Matroska ?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Brice Mahieu


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http://www.matroska.org



From steve.lhomme at free.fr  Wed Jul  2 11:57:03 2003
From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 11:57:03 +0200
Subject: [matroska-general] Re: How to choose EBML IDs ?
References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030702111928.02e165d0@pop.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <002101c34080$4a2b5050$0c7ba8c0@ing12>

> Hi everybody,

Hi Brice,

> I'm currently designing a binary format based on EBML, and was wondering
if
> there are some rules about how to choose class IDs. I know that less
> frequently used IDs should be longer, but are there any other rule ? How
> did you choose the IDs used in Matroska ?

Well the few rules worth :
- less used IDs : bigger size
- IDs used to resynchronise : 4 bytes (you may not need that)
- IDs not much used but in a sensitive place (where size is really
important) : smaller size

That's all the rules I've used.
Oh, and of course you have to meet the bit format for each stream :

1xxx xxxx                                  - Class A IDs (2^7 -2 possible
values) (base 0x8X)
01xx xxxx  xxxx xxxx                       - Class B IDs (2^14-2 possible
values) (base 0x4X 0xXX)
001x xxxx  xxxx xxxx  xxxx xxxx            - Class C IDs (2^21-2 possible
values) (base 0x2X 0xXX 0xXX)
0001 xxxx  xxxx xxxx  xxxx xxxx  xxxx xxxx - Class D IDs (2^28-2 possible
values) (base 0x1X 0xXX 0xXX 0xXX)


http://www.matroska.org



From paul at msn.com  Wed Jul  2 19:08:32 2003
From: paul at msn.com (Pamel)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 12:08:32 -0500
Subject: [matroska-general] Re: How to choose EBML IDs ?
References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030702111928.02e165d0@pop.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <bdv3gl$7mq$1@main.gmane.org>

"Mahieu Brice" <brice.mahieu at capflow.com> wrote...
> I'm currently designing a binary format based on EBML,

You may want to contact us about getting the latest EBML libraries to save
yourself some trouble.  I don't believe the Sourceforge CVS was ever updated
with the latest libraries.

Also, I am curious what type of format you are creating as this is the first
time I've heard of EBML being used outside of the Matroska project.


Pamel



http://www.matroska.org



From chris at matroska.org  Wed Jul  2 13:30:14 2003
From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 13:30:14 +0200
Subject: [matroska-general] OMF container format from AVID - the basis for AAF
Message-ID: <3F02C246.4000409@matroska.org>

Hi,

certainly not a real competitor to matroska or MCF as OSS projects, just 
another closed source/open specs thinggie like Nullsoft's NSV and 
trolltech's MPX :

http://www.swgrille.com/whats_new/default.htm

---------------------------------------------


      The OMF Specification

OMF is an edit data interchange format introduced by Avid Technology in 
1990. OMF is a binary file format using object-oriented technology. It 
uses a ?Bento? object container (an Apple technology) into which data in 
the form of the 'OMF Object Model' is placed.

The use of the Bento container provides the foundation for building an 
extensible interchange format. The Avid OMF Object Model is an 
insightful design for capturing edit data. As a whole, the format 
provides the capability of interchanging very rich edit information 
about a project. This comes at the cost of abstraction and complexity ? 
in other words, it is not so easy to understand.

Originally released as OMF1, OMF2 was introduced in 1996 to enhance the 
capabilities and efficiencies. While both formats share similar 
technologies, OMF2 is very different from OMF1 in terms of data types, 
properties, and semantics. This bifurcation of the formats caused even 
more complexity, but most applications will unfortunately need to 
support both.

The specification of both OMF1 and OMF2 are published by Avid.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------


It seems that this OMF container is used as the basis for this other 
thing we came across already, named AAF :

http://www.v-site.net/smpte-ne/articles/qt30aaf.html

-------------------------------------------------
AAF metadata interchange will be based on Avid's Open Media Framework 
Interchange (OMFI). OMFI was previously implemented in Apple's Bento 
container architecture, now declared end-of-life by Apple. Its container 
architecture will be newly implemented in Microsoft's object-oriented 
COM-based Structured Storage. OMFI is widely used in the audio industry 
for exchange of audio files that must synchronize with edited video and 
film productions. It is also used by Heuris' MPEG Power Professional 
MPEG encoders to extract cut points from a production, which become 
I-frames in the Encoding Control List (ECL), and to locate SFX and TX 
that need special encoder handling. But Avid has only recently extended 
OMFI metadata and media interchange to its own line of video and film 
products, and not yet completely. Outside of Avid, only a few of Avid's 
NLE (nonlinear editing) competitors can exchange compositional metadata 
and Motion-JPEG video media via OMFI, notable Tektronix/Lightworks and 
Softimage (Microsoft). This is not entirely Avid's fault. Their partners 
have had the spec for years and not implemented it. Ironically, some 
OMFI media files can be interchanged using QuickTime 3. For example, 
Avid's entry-level nonlinear editor Cinema can use QuickTime 3 to open 
high-end Avid Media Composer files. At NAB'98 Discreet Logic showed 
their editing and effects workstations exchanging files between 
Macintosh and Windows.
--------------------------------------------------------


A guy came to the Virtualdub support forum, claiming OMF/AAF superiority 
and 50+ years readability :
http://virtualdub.everwicked.com/index.php?act=ST&f=6&t=3636&s=455d0b2d2d1f934c81f16b3824eb3226

I flamed the heck out of him :D ...since then he didnt come back ( 
pretty stupid thing to claim something will work in 50+ years from now, 
especially in the world we are living in today ;-) ) ....

Just FYI, nothing we have to worry about, there are no open source 
libraries for any of them AFAIK ;) ...


Christian






http://www.matroska.org



From laurent.pinchart at capflow.com  Thu Jul  3 16:05:29 2003
From: laurent.pinchart at capflow.com (Laurent Pinchart)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 16:05:29 +0200
Subject: [matroska-general] Re: How to choose EBML IDs ?
Message-ID: <200307031605.29531.laurent.pinchart@capflow.com>

Hi Pamel,

>>I'm currently designing a binary format based on EBML,
>
>You may want to contact us about getting the latest EBML libraries to save
>yourself some trouble.  I don't believe the Sourceforge CVS was ever updated
>with the latest libraries.

We are developping an EBML parser (based on the XML SAX interface) and an EBML 
writer written in C, as we need to parse the format on platforms where C++ is 
badly supported.

>Also, I am curious what type of format you are creating as this is the first
>time I've heard of EBML being used outside of the Matroska project.

We are basically using EBML as a data format/communication protocol to carry 
data between computers in a distributed processing environment.

BTW, while playing with EBML, I found out it would have been very nice for 
parsing if the class IDs could have carried information about their level. 
Maybe for a future version ?

Laurent Pinchart

http://www.matroska.org



From steve.lhomme at free.fr  Thu Jul  3 16:27:58 2003
From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 16:27:58 +0200
Subject: [matroska-general] Re: How to choose EBML IDs ?
References: <200307031605.29531.laurent.pinchart@capflow.com>
Message-ID: <008c01c3416f$67c53aa0$0c7ba8c0@ing12>

> >You may want to contact us about getting the latest EBML libraries to
save
> >yourself some trouble.  I don't believe the Sourceforge CVS was ever
updated
> >with the latest libraries.
>
> We are developping an EBML parser (based on the XML SAX interface) and an
EBML
> writer written in C, as we need to parse the format on platforms where C++
is
> badly supported.

You plan to open source it ? That would really be great for matroska in
hardware players :>

> BTW, while playing with EBML, I found out it would have been very nice for
> parsing if the class IDs could have carried information about their level.
> Maybe for a future version ?

Yes, it could be nice. You could reserve a few bits (3 or 4) of the ID to
store the level.
Unfortunately Matroska won't fall in this category :(

The use I can see of this is to know approximately where you are when there
is some data loss and you find unknown IDs. That could boost
"resynchronisation" on the next level you need. (could be worth in matroska
too)

The downside of this is that even with 3 bits (up to 8 levels) you only have
4 bits (16 values) for Class A (1 octet) elements. 16 is not enough at least
for matroska and maybe for you too.

Adding another element is not planned [ID][size][level][data] or
[ID][level][size][data]. But maybe the data in the EBML head could indicate
that such a scheme is used or not (matroska could then make use of it,
optionally). If that's really a needed feature on your side, I can add it.

cya

http://www.matroska.org



From paul at msn.com  Sat Jul  5 05:58:24 2003
From: paul at msn.com (Pamel)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 22:58:24 -0500
Subject: [matroska-general] Re: How to choose EBML IDs ?
References: <200307031605.29531.laurent.pinchart@capflow.com> <008c01c3416f$67c53aa0$0c7ba8c0@ing12>
Message-ID: <be5iah$77e$1@main.gmane.org>


"Steve Lhomme" <steve.lhomme at free.fr> wrote
> The downside of this is that even with 3 bits (up to 8 levels) you only
have
> 4 bits (16 values) for Class A (1 octet) elements. 16 is not enough at
least
> for matroska and maybe for you too.

I think you could get away with only 16 Class A ID's in Matroska.  You would
just want to only use them on the most commonly used elements, ie. the
BlockGroup ID's.  Possibly the CRC element.  Other elements could easily be
Class B or C.  Of course, this isn't really an option as files are always
being created.


Pamel



http://www.matroska.org



From chris at matroska.org  Tue Jul  8 17:33:34 2003
From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 17:33:34 +0200
Subject: [Matroska-general] Testemail 2
Message-ID: <3F0AE44E.3060406@matroska.org>

Testemail 2




From chris at matroska.org  Tue Jul  8 17:54:29 2003
From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 17:54:29 +0200
Subject: [Matroska-general] Changing of the email adresses for our lists,
	mirrored on gmane.org
Message-ID: <3F0AE935.4040901@matroska.org>

Hi and Greetings,

we have 4 of our mailing lists mirrored by gmane.org, namely

gmane.comp.multimedia.matroska.general = matroska-general at freelists.org
gmane.comp.multimedia.matroska.devel = matroska-devel at freelists.org
gmane.comp.multimedia.matroska.users = matroska-user at freelists.org
gmane.comp.multimedia.matroska.cvs = matroska-cvs at freelists.org

You probably heard what happened to freelists.org, their Computer 
central was destroyed by a thunderstorm and they wont be up for a long 
time now. We took this as the motivation to create our own mailing lists 
on one of our own servers, and we would like to point the gmane.org 
mirror to these new email adresses :

matroska-general at lists.matroska.org
matroska-devel at lists.matroska.org
matroska-users at lists.matroska.org
matroska-cvs at lists.matroska.org

Please note that its matroska-user*S* now, while it was matroska-user_   
before.

Can you please change the subscription ? the matroska-cvs list 
subscription has to be approved by us, this will be done asap after you 
send the subscription. To subscribe go here

http://lists.matroska.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/matroska-general
http://lists.matroska.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/matroska-devel
http://lists.matroska.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/matroska-cvs
http://lists.matroska.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/matroska-users

We use mailman now instead of Ecartis ( freelists.org )

Thank you very much !! We are big gmane.org fans !!


Christian






From chris at matroska.org  Wed Jul  9 05:53:18 2003
From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 05:53:18 +0200
Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: Plans for a major matroska release
In-Reply-To: <3F0B5343.9010501@faireal.net>
References: <3F08A946.1000303@matroska.org> <3F0B5343.9010501@faireal.net>
Message-ID: <3F0B91AE.7020306@matroska.org>

Liisachan wrote:

> I'm making a small clip around 60 secs, Soft SSA multi-sub, with more 
> than 10 different languages.
> (probably 15, at least 12)
> This test clip includes:
> 1. Hebrew Subs: a Right-to-Left language works fine in SSA in Matroksa
> 2. Karaoke effect: tested and works fine
> 3. not so conspicuous but, fade-out effect: {\fad}
> 4. SSA-ish "rich" typesetting (with colors, etc): for instance

Hebrew !!! Why didnt i think of that !! Where is avih to make the 
translation of mf's matrix reloaded sample to hebrew for us !!
avih, can you do that ? Here the link for the english source file : 
http://matroska.free.fr/downloads/samples/matrix_reloaded-transcript-ENGLISH.txt 
, its just 30 lines or so, no big deal, we need that as UTF8 .. Thanks !!

> > I would like to call this release 'Liisachan Release' , as she is 
> one of the two Ladies we have in the team, and her
> > great Guides and information pages about matroska are helping us a 
> lot  to get known in the anime scene, and their seem to be our biggest
> > supporters for the time being. We could call the next release the 
> 'Marlena release' and finally select the offiicial matroska logo then ?
>
> "Liisachan Release" would be honorable for me,
> but at the same time I must note this:
> Giving special treatments to someone just because she is a woman, is 
> potentially
> to discriminate against women in a way, not respecting their 
> personalities.
> I'd be happy if our web pages are useuful, and I'd be happy if it 
> brought honor to our works,
> but honestly, I don't want to get special treatments just because of 
> my gender or something.
> Thank you for understanding :)
> * Liisachan * 

Forgive me Liisachan, you know i am an old guy and from the old shool, i 
didnt intend to discriminate your efforts, anybody here will confirm you 
really earned this release with your great contribution to this project :) !

Best regards

BTW : Liisachan, here the pages to subscribe to the new Mailing lists, 
freelists.org will be down for a while it seems :

http://lists.matroska.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/matroska-general
http://lists.matroska.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/matroska-devel
http://lists.matroska.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/matroska-cvs
http://lists.matroska.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/matroska-users





From chris at matroska.org  Wed Jul  9 15:42:50 2003
From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 15:42:50 +0200
Subject: [Matroska-general] New Mailing Lists up and running
Message-ID: <3F0C1BDA.3010103@matroska.org>

Hi everybody,

if you received an email about being subscribed to a new matroska 
mailing list, dont panic, you dont have to read yet another list. As you 
may know, freelists.org was down for a while as a thunderstorm destroyed 
their PC central. As we had no idea how long it would take unil they 
have it up and running, we made a step we had been thinking of since a 
long time and created our own mailing list server, which is hosted on 
bunkus.org ( Mosu's server ). He installed mailman for this, and i was 
just waiting for freelists.org to be up again to be able to 'steal' all 
the email adresses from the subscription list, and subscribe all of you 
manually.

This was done today and i would like to ask you to use this new mail 
adresses from now on ( freelists.org will be abandoned soon ) :

matroska-general at lists.matroska.org
matroska-devel at lists.matroska.org
matroska-users at lists.matroska.org
matroska-cvs at lists.matroska.org

Please note that its matroska-user*S* now, while it was matroska-user_   
before.

If you plan to change the subscription go here :

http://lists.matroska.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/matroska-general
http://lists.matroska.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/matroska-devel
http://lists.matroska.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/matroska-cvs
http://lists.matroska.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/matroska-users


We hope you understand why we were doing this, the matroska project has 
meanwhile reached an importance where we simply dont want to depend on 
an external host for the ML archive and distribution. The new solution, 
with  lists.matroska.org as TLD, is giving us a lot of freedom in terms 
of choice of server. Cyt0plas is planning to install mailman on 
corecodec.org also, so if we had a problem with bunkus.org we could 
easily transcribe the complete MLs to cc.org, without having to change 
anything.

Regards

Christian



From steve.lhomme at free.fr  Thu Jul 10 09:52:45 2003
From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:52:45 +0200
Subject: [Matroska-general] OggDs
Message-ID: <001101c346b8$3fde83e0$0c7ba8c0@ing12>

Hi,

So all of you now know that OggDs has become open source yesterday and can
be found in the Xiph CVS... Why do I mention this here ?

Simply because I don't want people to waste their energy starting fights on
forums or IRC saying that A is better than B for various reasons. I'd prefer
that all these fights would not happen. We do our thing, they do theirs. Of
course there is a kind of competition, but IMO that's for the end user and
the technical matters. Not against other developpers.

OGM becoming open source (documented ? what pbs does this version have that
they didn't release the latest one ?) changes of course our impact on the
community. One of the strongest point against OGM was that it is
closed-source and not guaranteed to work in the future. This is still the
case until someone take the responsability to support it and improve it. I'm
sure there will be some developpers who would step in for that.

So what advantages do we have over OGM ? Very little : flexibility,
extensibility, size, fast seeking, container independant of the codecs used
(see granulepos), channel dependencies (like a default track, overlay
tracks, scaling timecodes for 25fps/23.96fps mixing). All the rest we can
do, they can do it. The only thing we can't do is streaming over UDP
(unlikely to happen for video using OGM anyway).

For the end user almost all of them doesn't matter. But for the coders it
means a lot.

We can succeed if we keep on working as we did : for the user, no matter
what OS or application he/she uses.




From chris at matroska.org  Thu Jul 10 11:11:15 2003
From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:11:15 +0200
Subject: [Matroska-general] OggDs
In-Reply-To: <001101c346b8$3fde83e0$0c7ba8c0@ing12>
References: <001101c346b8$3fde83e0$0c7ba8c0@ing12>
Message-ID: <3F0D2DB3.5070505@matroska.org>

Steve Lhomme wrote:

>Simply because I don't want people to waste their energy starting fights on
>forums or IRC saying that A is better than B for various reasons. I'd prefer
>that all these fights would not happen. We do our thing, they do theirs. 
>
Yes, i fully agree here. Although i am a little sad that none of them is 
honest enough to tell the users the truth, that is that OGM will very 
likely die if the Xiph people wont adapt it for their Theora specs, and 
this is not going to happen IMHO, as i was pointing out here :

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57217

This is what i wrote :

"I should maybe not comment this thread here, but this is what i liked 
to say :

I personally see OGMs future as a supported format from Xiph, or not. I 
may be wrong here, but this is my opinion. Just think of what happens if 
libogg is no longer supported, and OGM become incompatible with oggfile, 
which is incorporating Theora and Ogg handling in general.

Monty has recently stated on #vorbis that IHO Tobias has done a great 
job to stick to the Ogg specs as close as possible, as far as he can 
tell. Maybe only the 'mapping' of the DivX codec had to change.

Now i bet every sum that Monty

- has no detailled insight how the VCM codec mapping is actually working 
in OGM
- doesnt know what a BITMAPINFOHEADER is, nor a VIDEOINFOHEADER
- has not really considered how such Windows centric structs can be 
generated on Linux, his preferred OS ( ask Mosu, he knows about it very 
well )
- will die a sudden and hard death, presumable from a heart attack, once 
he finds out that Tobias is fully depending on the information that 
DirectShow is giving the OggDS muxer filter ( again, BITMAPINFOHEADER 
and VIDEOINFOHEADER ) to be able to initialize the codec on playback

He maybe has a feeling that this is the case now, thats why he said the 
'codec mapping may change', but guys .... if he does change that, all 
your existing OGM may be supported for playback, but unevitable become 
out of spec for the future .....

Just my 2 cents, not here to start a flame war ( and i havent mentioned 
our stuff !! )

Christian"


As robux4 said above, we should try to keep posts like this to the 
absolute minimum, to avoid that users get the impression we are out for 
the same kind of flaming and badmouthing that ( some ) Xiph members were 
undertaking with respect to us. Having said that, this doesnt change the 
actual situation where OGM is bound to die IMHO, especially if we keep 
on working as hard as we are doing to make matroska even better as it is 
today ....... we are just not allowed to say that in public, or better, 
its wiser if we keep our mouth shut.

I promise, my statement above will be the last of its kind, unless i 
find myself in a position where i have to defend myself and the project 
from obvious badmouthing.

Thanks for your cooperation on this matter folks

Christian



From chris at matroska.org  Fri Jul 11 13:55:26 2003
From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:55:26 +0200
Subject: [Matroska-general] [Fwd: WG: Cover-CD CHIP Germany]
Message-ID: <3F0EA5AE.5090604@matroska.org>

Good news guys :) !!

CHIP, the biggest PC magazine in Germany together with C't will include 
all matroska creation/editing tools and the matroska playback pack on 
the August CD :) !!

We have time to send them all the tools we want to have included until 
4th, August !! I am requesting permission to do so to Mosu, Gabest, 
Toff, JCsston and spyder about their agreements for this release, as 
well as the VirtualdubMod Team, Cyrius and Belgabor, with this very email.

Planned releases :

- libmatroska/libebml
- VirtualdubMod
- mkvtoolnix
- DVobSub 2.26
- matroska muxer filter
- real video wrapper filters
- Shell Extension ( Jory, fix it ! :-) )
- CoreVorbis
- CoreAAC ( if possible with AAC SBR support against FAAD2, and fixed 
channel mapping )
- matrix downmixer ( i will maybe contact the author, Valex, separately, 
but put him on cc. here already )

To fulfil GPL/QPL requirements CHIP will have to distribute the source 
codes also, i told them so they are aware already and ok with it. We 
should make a nice NSIS installer for it, with OS detection, so people 
will actually use it.

Betaboy, Blacksun, Toff, Ciler can we think of adding TCMP RC4 also ? Is 
the CDL plugin working/updated until then to match the new API ? Can we 
have a build of the installer without matroska DSF, or version checking 
to avoid overwriting newer filters ??

Comments welcome

Christian

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	WG: Cover-CD CHIP Germany
Date: 	Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:18:12 +0200
From: 	Mandau, Markus <mmandau at chip.de>
To: 	'christian at matroska.org' <christian at matroska.org>



Hallo,
f?r die n?chste CD-Produktion w?rden wir gern ein paar Matroska-Tools
anbieten. Die Deadline f?r die CD ist der 4.8. - wenn du uns zu diesem
Termin die aktuellen Versionen zur Verf?gung stellen k?nntest? Schick
einfach eine Mail an mich. Den Trailer k?nnen wir wahrscheinlich wegen
Lizenzproblemen nicht auf die CD packen, trotzdem w?rde ich ihn mir gerne
ansehen. K?nntest du mir den Download-Pfad schicken, sobald er fertig ist?
Es sei denn, ich finde ihn auch unter
http://ld-anime.faireal.net/guide/test.matroska .

Markus Mandau


Hallo,

nachdem Videolan's VLC player jetzt auch unseren open standard video 
container 'matroska' unterst?tzt, der ?ber kurz oder lang den guten 
alten AVI Standard ersetzen soll, h?tttet Ihr Interesse auch ein paar 
tools f?r die matroska Erstellung mit drauf zupacken ?

Ich bin Projekt admin f?r das Projekt 'VirtualdubMod' ( 
http://sf.net/projects/virtualdubmod ) und w?rde euch mit einem frischen 
CVS release versorgen falls Ihr das wollt. Nat?rlich m?sst Ihr irgendwo 
den sourcecode mit dazupacken, aber ich denke mal Ihr kennt die GPL 
Regeln ;) ....

Es gibt auch ein CLI Programm das dazu auch noch das muxen von AAC audio 
and SRT/SSA soft subtitles unterst?tzt, namens mkvmerge.

Einfach kurz Bescheid geben wenn das interessant ist, dann gibts auch 
davon die neueste Version, zusammen mit dem letzten DirectShow parser 
f?r das matroska Format f?r die Wiedergabe in jedem DShow player wie 
z.B. Windows Mediaplayer. Zudem bereiten wir ein 30 MB sample file eines 
Matrix reloaded Trailers vor, in HDTV Aufl?sung mit Ogg Vorbis 5.1 
surround Ton und mit ca. 20 Sprachen Untertiteln, das k?nnte evtl. auch 
mit drauf ( Trailer sollte ok sein ).

Christian Wiesner

websites :

http://www.matroska.org
http://ld-anime.faireal.net/guide/test.matroska ( mit 6 MB sample file 
mit 15 Sprachen als Untertitel, noch nicht released ! )





From paul at msn.com  Sat Jul 12 00:17:34 2003
From: paul at msn.com (Paul)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:17:34 -0500
Subject: [Matroska-general] Reply to Doom9.
References: <3F0EA5AE.5090604@matroska.org>
Message-ID: <BAY4-DAV83d0TlKn4ZH00001959@hotmail.com>

Just so that you are aware of what was said, here is a copy/paste of the
messages.

**********************************
matroska advertising
Hi

It was suggested to me that I have a word with you on this subject. I
already spoke to Christian a while back and he partially got the message.
It's not so much about highjacking the "OGM isn't dead" thread (mostly posts
in the first and 2nd page of that thread are concerned). The thing is that
some people, regular members, moderators and myself sometime get the feeling
that some members of the Matroska team only hang here to advertise their
project, and there are those who do not particularly appreciate this. I'm an
engineer and not a PR guy. Hence, I do believe that a good product sells
itself. At least, amongst my readers it pretty much does. You'll probably
have a hard time finding a large group of more knowledgeable people in the
DVD backup area than at this very place. People are appreciative of new
technologies, and eager to try out new things. That's good, especially for
you, because it means you get a lot of feedback. But on the other hand,
those people are also well capable to make their own decisions about which
container they want to use. They should not be influenced by a constant
barrage about what format x can do better than format y (asking such
questions is forbidden and strikeable under the forum rules, and constantly
making those comparisons isn't appreciated either, and more than one
moderator has been on the verge of handing out strikes for the constant
advertising that is going on here).

So, I'm asking you to take it down a couple of notches. Most member here are
really very well capable to pick their own containers and do not have to be
reminded constantly of what container x offers that y does not and that's
the way it should be.

Doom9

**********************************

Hello,

I do not believe that I "only hang here to advertise" or attempt to say
"what format x can do better than format y".  I do spend most of my time in
the New Format section, and comment on mostly those topics that interest me.
OGM has not interested me much because of the development has been so
stagnant.

My first comment in the "OGM isn't dead" thread obviously shows my support
in the continued development of OGM (aside from a labelled joke).  The next
was simply a misunderstanding as I thought Liisachan was asking if any
container supported SSA, instead of a request for someone to develop support
for it in OGM.  An in fact my reply was simply a copy/paste from somewhere
else to quickly answer the wrong question rather than open a new thread.
(Liisachan actually let me know of an error in it)

Once I had seen that I made a mistake, I made a comment on how to put SSA in
OGM.  I thought the error would be obvious, but having received this message
from you, I saw that I needed to remove my old message, and I did.

As I said before, I don't believe this message accurately portrays my
activities on the forum.  A search of the forums for my messages would
probably show maybe 2/3 of my posts being Matroska centric.  And that would
almost all be technical/process comments.  I would implore you to spend a
few minutes to search so that your impression of my might be made sure, good
or bad.

Regardless, seeing evil in oneself is much more difficult than seeing it in
others.  And with that understanding, I will try to be more cautious about
the threads that I mention Matroska, MKV, MKA, and MKS in.

Pamel


From steve.lhomme at free.fr  Sat Jul 12 12:42:32 2003
From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 12:42:32 +0200
Subject: [Matroska-general] OGM open source
Message-ID: <3F0FE618.9080304@free.fr>

Hi,

Again I'm sending a message here, hoping people will calm down on the 
Doom9 thread. Please don't post anymore in this thread. If you want to 
start a comparison, make a webpage stating all that we can do that OGM 
can't (the opposite is just one thing : streaming low bitrate over UDP). 
But don't use an OGM related thread for that.

This attitude of ours really hurt what we're trying to do : get people 
work together and like to work together !

I don't think we'll have troubles getting more users than OGM and soon 
we'll do all the nice features that users like about it. So there's no 
need to shoot the ambulance (as we say over here)... Please be kind with 
OGM ppl, they know for sure it will not be easy for them.



From chris at matroska.org  Sat Jul 19 12:52:34 2003
From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 12:52:34 +0200
Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: [matroska-devel] Re: mailing lists have moved
In-Reply-To: <bfarle$gd5$1@main.gmane.org>
References: <20030718115803.GH9533@bunkus.org> <bfarle$gd5$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <3F1922F2.60805@matroska.org>

Pamel wrote:

>"Moritz Bunkus" <moritz at bunkus.org> wrote...
>  
>
>>for those who haven't noticed yet: we have set up new mailing lists at
>>http://lists.matroska.org/
>>I actually just use the gmane interface.  Has it been updated yet?
>>    
>>
I have no news from the gmane.org guys ..... sorry .... will bug them 
again now.

But as i manually subscribed the old gmane reader client to the new 
lists, currently all email going to the new lists are monitored on 
gmane.org also ... in fact, gmane.org will currently monitor emails to 
both lists into one single newgroup . Only sending email to the new list 
via gmane will not work now i guess.

Christian



From chris at matroska.org  Sat Jul 19 18:11:05 2003
From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 18:11:05 +0200
Subject: [Matroska-general] [Fwd: Another Matroska Fansub release]
Message-ID: <3F196D99.3080302@matroska.org>

news :)

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	Another Matroska Fansub release
Date: 	Sat, 19 Jul 2003 18:01:59 +0200
From: 	_YuSaKu_ <yusaku at despammed.com>
Reply-To: 	yusaku.godai at libero.it
Organization: 	Maison Ikkoku
To: 	christianhjw at users.sourceforge.net



I've writing to you because I would like to announce you that another anime
fansub release in Matroska has been released today on July the 19th by
Blitzkrieg Anime Fansub, an Italian fansub group.This is the link to the
official announce (in Italian, of course)
http://www.nipogames.com/cartella/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34904

They haven't already update their website at
http://blitzkriegaf.altervista.org/ but the release can be picked from their
official IRC channe #blitzkrieg at irc.azzurra.org (most important Italian IRC
Network) or by Usenet; the file has been posted on alt.binaries.3d.mojowordl
(don't ask me why)

You and your team are working very well on this project and even acK.it
Fansub, the Italian group I'm member is really interested in Matroska and we
think we'll release something in MKV

Keep working like you did ;-)

-- 
it.binari.cartoni and it.sociale.globalizzazione Moderator
ICQ #50985320
Aoi Sakuraba's #1 Fan
www.iscf.info







From chris at matroska.org  Tue Jul 22 15:12:32 2003
From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:12:32 +0200
Subject: [Matroska-general] Matroska Release 4th August 2003 ( CHIP release
 ) - table of working/missing features
Message-ID: <3F1D3840.805@matroska.org>

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From spyder at matroska.org  Tue Jul 22 16:36:21 2003
From: spyder at matroska.org (John Cannon)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:36:21 -0500
Subject: [Matroska-general] Matroska Release 4th August 2003 ( CHIP
	release ) - table of working/missing features
References: <3F1D3840.805@matroska.org>
Message-ID: <002501c3505e$9fcee470$95a8be3f@johnc>

Hi,

I am working right now on a buffer system to split an mpeg2 video stream into frame and header packets.  The system should be reusable in other tools to packetize the mpeg2 video for placement in Matroska.  When I finish this code, I will write a LemAPI plugin to play with.  I would also make an mkvmerge packetizer but Mosu's API scares me ;)

We discussed the technical points of placing mpeg2 in matroska and I think the best way would be to put the sequence header in the CodecPrivate and then put the GOP headers with the I frame of the GOP.  As far as other features, they can be added but this is basically a reader for mpeg2, the rest will not be part of this code.

John
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From chris at matroska.org  Fri Jul 25 00:09:05 2003
From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 00:09:05 +0200
Subject: [Matroska-general] Changing of the email adresses for our lists,
	mirrored on gmane.org
Message-ID: <3F205901.3030705@matroska.org>

2nd sending !!

Hi and Greetings,

we have 4 of our mailing lists mirrored by gmane.org, namely

gmane.comp.multimedia.matroska.general = matroska-general at freelists.org
gmane.comp.multimedia.matroska.devel = matroska-devel at freelists.org
gmane.comp.multimedia.matroska.users = matroska-user at freelists.org
gmane.comp.multimedia.matroska.cvs = matroska-cvs at freelists.org

You probably heard what happened to freelists.org, their Computer
central was destroyed by a thunderstorm and they wont be up for a long
time now. We took this as the motivation to create our own mailing lists
on one of our own servers, and we would like to point the gmane.org
mirror to these new email adresses :

matroska-general at lists.matroska.org
matroska-devel at lists.matroska.org
matroska-users at lists.matroska.org
matroska-cvs at lists.matroska.org

Please note that its matroska-user*S* now, while it was matroska-user_
before.

Can you please change the subscription ? the matroska-cvs list
subscription has to be approved by us, this will be done asap after you
send the subscription. To subscribe go here

http://lists.matroska.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/matroska-general
http://lists.matroska.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/matroska-devel
http://lists.matroska.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/matroska-cvs
http://lists.matroska.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/matroska-users

We use mailman now instead of Ecartis ( freelists.org )

Thank you very much !! We are big gmane.org fans !!


Christian








From steve.lhomme at free.fr  Fri Jul 25 19:01:18 2003
From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:01:18 +0200
Subject: [Matroska-general] IRC
Message-ID: <3F21625E.8010803@free.fr>

Is the server down ?
Are we doomed ?



From chris at matroska.org  Fri Jul 25 19:04:05 2003
From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:04:05 +0200
Subject: [Matroska-general] IRC
In-Reply-To: <3F21625E.8010803@free.fr>
References: <3F21625E.8010803@free.fr>
Message-ID: <3F216305.1020001@matroska.org>

Steve Lhomme wrote:

> Is the server down ?
> Are we doomed ?

nope, all fine, just your ISP it seems ?



From moritz at bunkus.org  Fri Jul 25 19:18:04 2003
From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:18:04 +0200
Subject: [Matroska-general] IRC
In-Reply-To: <3F21625E.8010803@free.fr>
References: <3F21625E.8010803@free.fr>
Message-ID: <20030725171804.GV9533@bunkus.org>

> Are we doomed ?

Quoting C-3PO: "We're doomed!"

-- 
 ==> Ciao, Mosu (Moritz Bunkus)


From moritz at bunkus.org  Sun Jul 27 10:03:31 2003
From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 10:03:31 +0200
Subject: [Matroska-general] Apache upgrade
Message-ID: <20030727080331.GX9533@bunkus.org>

Hi everyone,

I've just changed from Apache 1.x to Apache 2.0 for
http://lists.matroska.org/. So if anyone happens to notice problems
please let me know immediately so that I can fix them.

Thanks.

-- 
 ==> Ciao, Mosu (Moritz Bunkus)


From chris at matroska.org  Tue Jul 29 23:21:29 2003
From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 23:21:29 +0200
Subject: [Matroska-general] My request for a contemporary suspension from
	Doom9 webforum
Message-ID: <3F26E559.6090404@matroska.org>


Guys,

i just wanted to inform you that i was just chatting with Doom9 on IRC 
tonight, and he has agreed to put my account on suspension for about 2 
weeks ( well, kind of ) until i have cleared my mind about OGM and 
matroska. This measure was taken because i was asking him to do that, 
knowing myself, and seeing the damage i am causing to the project with 
my attitude recently.

It seems i can personally not accept that there is still work being done 
on the OGM container, it makes me go mad when i just think about it, but 
this is not the right situation to try explaining in detail why this is 
the case. However, as i am obviously unable to react in a sensible way 
if the topic OGM is being discussed,  i guess it will do me and the 
project only good if i wont post on Doom9 for a couple of weeks, to 
improve my attitude.

I am sure Pamel will be able to make the announcement of the 4th august 
release there for me, maybe by using some of the text i am preparing to 
be posted on other webforums where matroska is a topic already, same 
goes for some mailing lists i decided to make the release announcement 
on. I ask all team members who are reading on Doom9 to give the MKV 
users there the necessary support they need, we certainly won't give 
them the feeling nobody cares about their problems.

My special apologies go to DaveEL, he was hinting me more than once to 
the fact that the present situation is unbearable for him as an active 
Doom9 mod, and it seems i was unable to understand how serious this is 
for him. I hope he will accept my public apology and continue to 
contribute to the projectif he finds the time to do so.

Sorry guys for all the probs


Christian



From chris at matroska.org  Wed Jul 30 23:17:46 2003
From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 23:17:46 +0200
Subject: [Matroska-general] CHIP Release - Listing of released software
Message-ID: <3F2835FA.2020804@matroska.org>


Hi Markus,

i am writing this email on my way to Russia where i will stay until 
Friday for a short bussiness trip. With some bad luck i wont be able to 
send it from there, so you'd receive it not before Friday morning and it 
is obsolete by then, as some other team members may have been in contact 
with you already, but i try to find a way to get it on your desk earlier.

With the 4th august coming closer and closer, we have some good news for 
you. Almost all the new features we wanted to add to our existing tools 
until the release date have been added successfully and we are in the 
process of alpha testing them now to get rid of the last remaining bugs. 
Only thing we couldnt implement in the short time we had was muxing of 
DVD subtitles ( basically RLE compressed bitmaps, often called 'vobsubs' 
), but all other things, like chapters and tagging are already working 
now. With this email i wanted to give you a first impression of what our 
plans are for this release, so you are prepared :

BASIC LIBRARY

We would like to include the main libs for matroska, libebml and 
libmatroska in 0.5.0 relase version tarballs ( tar.bz ) on the CD, 
mainly for Linux users because our CVS server has anonymous access 
b0rked still, but also for developers who wnated to have a look at the 
quality of the library.

WINDOWS

VirtualdubMod : This great tool is derived from Avery Lee's excellent 
AVI editing tool Virtualdub, is using GPL license also, and does support 
AVI/OGM/MKV creation and editing/muxing. Sources can also be AVI, OGM, 
and MKV, but also MPEG1, MPEG2, MP3, AC3, Ogg VORBIS ( only MKV and OGM 
), DTS and SRT. Main Authors are Julien 'Cyrius' Coloos and Tobias 
'Belgabor' Minnich. Homepage : http://virtualdubmod.sourceforge.net , 
Download Page : http://sourceforge.net/projects/virtualdubmod . The 
release version will be uploaded soon, but i will send all tools to you 
via email anyway, once i get them from the author, ready for release.

mkvtoolnix/mkvmerge : Originally made for Linux by Moritz 'Mosu' Bunkus, 
released here http://www.bunkus.org/videotools/mkvtoolnix/ ,  he could 
compile it using mingw and is offering win32 binaries from his homepage. 
This tool is CLI based, but there is a great HTML documentation in the 
mkvtoolnix ZIP package, so that even CLI haters like myself could use it 
successfully. mkvmerge's main advantage over VirtualdubMod is that it 
can be used to mux a couple of formats into MKV that are currently 
unsupported in VdubMod, such as AAC, AAC Plus, RealVideo ( RV9, etc. ), 
RealAudio ( Cook, SIPRO, RALF, ATRAC ), and SSA/ASS

DirectShow parser/splitter filters : We are in the happy situation that 
we can basically offer two full featured filters here, the official 
'mkxds.dll' which is based on the main libraries, and Gabest's 
matroskasplitter Filter which he coded without our library in less than 
3 days, mainly to train his fingers he said. We will test both filters 
internally until 4th august and liked to have the better one included 
then, maybe with a NSIS installer as a so-called 'playback pack', but 
without CoreAAC for licensing reasons ( It will contain CoreVorbis, 
matrix mixer filter for 5.1 downmixing,  timestamp manager by DaveEL, 
DVobSub for subtitles display and Gabest's Real wrapper filter, all with 
auto-detection of the OS so the right versions will be installed ).

TCMP ( The Core Media Player ) RC4 : I guess you know this player 
already, made by Ludovic 'Blacksun' Vialle and Christophe ' Toff' Paris, 
i saw you were mailing with Dan 'Betaboy' Marlin already. RC4 will come 
with a LOT of bugfixes compared to RC3, and also introduce a new feature 
with a powerful media library. The matroska CDL was greatly improved by 
Jory Stone, and so TCMP is the first player that can make full use of 
the matroska tagging system, as well as supporting the matroska Aspect 
Ratio handling ( width/height, any combination of integers allowed ) 
independent from the codec that was used.

MediaPlayer Classic : Written in C++ by Gabest, this player is not 
really feature packed, but working fast and stable, and has perfect 
Realmedia and matroska support built in. Homepage is 
http://sf.net/projects/guliverkli , and it can also capture into 
matroska format, using a DirectShow graph and matroskamuxer filter.

Matroska Shell Extension :  From the same author as the CDL for TCMP, 
Jory 'jcsston' Stone was creating a great tool for Windows Explorer, so 
that matroska users can read/write tags in MKV files, and also find out 
about the number of tracks, the codec IDs used, picture resolution, 
etc., just with a right click on the file in Explorer.

? avs2mkv : I dont know if DaveEL can finish and test the tool until 
release date, and it can only be used by very advanced user who know how 
to handle avisynth scripts, but its definitely the first tool ever to 
create 'native' MPEG4 MKV files, using xvid.dll staically linked ( 
license problem for CHIP ? ), and in future we are going to enforce 
native files whereever we can, to underline our x-platform approach.

? MKMerger : The GUI version of Mosu's mkvmerge, we are not 100% sure if 
Florian 'SirElvis' Wagner, the new dev Team member, gets it to work 
until 4th august, but the first test versions loooked very promising.

? VirtualVCR : A great DShow based capturing tool, there is a modified 
version using Gabest' matroska muxer filter, sdome people say its 
wroking great and better than built in AVI, others say they have problems.


LINUX :

mkvtoolnix/mkvmerge : http://www.bunkus.org/videotools/mkvtoolnix/ as 
written above, this tool is incredibly important for the complete 
project, and for Linux users its the one and only

mplayer : http://mplayerhq.hu ,  i have no clue how we could precompile 
mplayer with matroska support, maybe some MKV freaks could create RPMs 
for SuSE ( most used Linux distro in Germany ) and Debian, and we 
include them on the CD  ?

Gstreamer-plugin : I'd like to hear your opinion here markus, Ronald 
'BBB' Bultje has invested a lot of his private time to get this plugin 
working, and Gstreamer is the official multimedia platform for GNOME now 
.. should we include the plugin also ?

? GENTOO ? Is this of any interest ? I am convinced i could organize a 
GENTOO version with MKV support, if this is wanted by CHIP.


BeOS/MacOSX :

Only playback for now AFAIK, again we had to search for a way to include 
mplayer binaries for those OS, so the users can at least play MKV fiiles 
fine, although i heard VLC is working for those OS also, with built in 
MKV support.

Tell me what you think Markus ...is this too much ?? Or is anything 
important missing ? Can we include all of them ? will matroska be 
introduced well with all these tools ?

Thanks and best regards

Christian






From chris at matroska.org  Thu Jul 31 20:34:51 2003
From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 20:34:51 +0200
Subject: [Matroska-general] [Fwd: AW: CHIP Release - Listing of released
	software]
Message-ID: <3F29614B.3060905@matroska.org>

FYI

@ SirElivs : what you think of MKMerger as a name for your GUI ? Can we 
release it as an .exe, with mkvmerge statically linked somehow ( i am 
dreaming now ) ? Any chance its ready until 4th august ?

@ DaveEL : you have any ides about avs2mkv ? Can it be released ?

@ Gabest : MPC is GNU ? if not, you care sending a 'formless email' to 
Markus Mandau about including MPC ?

Thanks guys, comments welcome

Christian


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	AW: CHIP Release - Listing of released software
Date: 	Thu, 31 Jul 2003 12:08:41 +0200
From: 	Mandau, Markus <mmandau at chip.de>
To: 	'chris at matroska.org' <chris at matroska.org>



Great news.
Short guidance for publishing:
- Only Windows-Software, because over 90% of our readers using only this OS
- not CLI ( I think in case of mkvtoolnix/mkvmerge we can make an exception,
because it is well documented and really useful)
- What is under GPL, we can publish no problem. If it is not GNU we need the
permission of the programmer. In case of the matroska-tools, they are all
GNU I think. In case of the players like TCMP and MPC, I am not so sure (may
be you can contact them, that they send me a formless mail?).

My suggestion for the package:
-Basic library
-TCMP RC4
-MPC
-VirtualDubMod
-mkvtoolnix
-DirectShow parser/splitter filters
-Matroska Shell Extension
-MKMerger (if it is ready)
because with this tools you can make, edit and play Matroska

Will you build a special Setup-Routine for the matroska-package or should we
offer the tools separately on our CD (which is the easiest way, I think. If
we are allowed to include the players TCMP and MPC, I would like to do it
that way for them anyways)

Best regards
Markus

-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Christian HJ Wiesner [mailto:chris at matroska.org]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 30. Juli 2003 23:18
An: Mandau, Markus; matroska-general at lists.matroska.org
Betreff: CHIP Release - Listing of released software



Hi Markus,

i am writing this email on my way to Russia where i will stay until 
Friday for a short bussiness trip. With some bad luck i wont be able to 
send it from there, so you'd receive it not before Friday morning and it 
is obsolete by then, as some other team members may have been in contact 
with you already, but i try to find a way to get it on your desk earlier.

With the 4th august coming closer and closer, we have some good news for 
you. Almost all the new features we wanted to add to our existing tools 
until the release date have been added successfully and we are in the 
process of alpha testing them now to get rid of the last remaining bugs. 
Only thing we couldnt implement in the short time we had was muxing of 
DVD subtitles ( basically RLE compressed bitmaps, often called 'vobsubs' 
), but all other things, like chapters and tagging are already working 
now. With this email i wanted to give you a first impression of what our 
plans are for this release, so you are prepared :

BASIC LIBRARY

We would like to include the main libs for matroska, libebml and 
libmatroska in 0.5.0 relase version tarballs ( tar.bz ) on the CD, 
mainly for Linux users because our CVS server has anonymous access 
b0rked still, but also for developers who wnated to have a look at the 
quality of the library.

WINDOWS

VirtualdubMod : This great tool is derived from Avery Lee's excellent 
AVI editing tool Virtualdub, is using GPL license also, and does support 
AVI/OGM/MKV creation and editing/muxing. Sources can also be AVI, OGM, 
and MKV, but also MPEG1, MPEG2, MP3, AC3, Ogg VORBIS ( only MKV and OGM 
), DTS and SRT. Main Authors are Julien 'Cyrius' Coloos and Tobias 
'Belgabor' Minnich. Homepage : http://virtualdubmod.sourceforge.net , 
Download Page : http://sourceforge.net/projects/virtualdubmod . The 
release version will be uploaded soon, but i will send all tools to you 
via email anyway, once i get them from the author, ready for release.

mkvtoolnix/mkvmerge : Originally made for Linux by Moritz 'Mosu' Bunkus, 
released here http://www.bunkus.org/videotools/mkvtoolnix/ ,  he could 
compile it using mingw and is offering win32 binaries from his homepage. 
This tool is CLI based, but there is a great HTML documentation in the 
mkvtoolnix ZIP package, so that even CLI haters like myself could use it 
successfully. mkvmerge's main advantage over VirtualdubMod is that it 
can be used to mux a couple of formats into MKV that are currently 
unsupported in VdubMod, such as AAC, AAC Plus, RealVideo ( RV9, etc. ), 
RealAudio ( Cook, SIPRO, RALF, ATRAC ), and SSA/ASS

DirectShow parser/splitter filters : We are in the happy situation that 
we can basically offer two full featured filters here, the official 
'mkxds.dll' which is based on the main libraries, and Gabest's 
matroskasplitter Filter which he coded without our library in less than 
3 days, mainly to train his fingers he said. We will test both filters 
internally until 4th august and liked to have the better one included 
then, maybe with a NSIS installer as a so-called 'playback pack', but 
without CoreAAC for licensing reasons ( It will contain CoreVorbis, 
matrix mixer filter for 5.1 downmixing,  timestamp manager by DaveEL, 
DVobSub for subtitles display and Gabest's Real wrapper filter, all with 
auto-detection of the OS so the right versions will be installed ).

TCMP ( The Core Media Player ) RC4 : I guess you know this player 
already, made by Ludovic 'Blacksun' Vialle and Christophe ' Toff' Paris, 
i saw you were mailing with Dan 'Betaboy' Marlin already. RC4 will come 
with a LOT of bugfixes compared to RC3, and also introduce a new feature 
with a powerful media library. The matroska CDL was greatly improved by 
Jory Stone, and so TCMP is the first player that can make full use of 
the matroska tagging system, as well as supporting the matroska Aspect 
Ratio handling ( width/height, any combination of integers allowed ) 
independent from the codec that was used.

MediaPlayer Classic : Written in C++ by Gabest, this player is not 
really feature packed, but working fast and stable, and has perfect 
Realmedia and matroska support built in. Homepage is 
http://sf.net/projects/guliverkli , and it can also capture into 
matroska format, using a DirectShow graph and matroskamuxer filter.

Matroska Shell Extension :  From the same author as the CDL for TCMP, 
Jory 'jcsston' Stone was creating a great tool for Windows Explorer, so 
that matroska users can read/write tags in MKV files, and also find out 
about the number of tracks, the codec IDs used, picture resolution, 
etc., just with a right click on the file in Explorer.

? avs2mkv : I dont know if DaveEL can finish and test the tool until 
release date, and it can only be used by very advanced user who know how 
to handle avisynth scripts, but its definitely the first tool ever to 
create 'native' MPEG4 MKV files, using xvid.dll staically linked ( 
license problem for CHIP ? ), and in future we are going to enforce 
native files whereever we can, to underline our x-platform approach.

? MKMerger : The GUI version of Mosu's mkvmerge, we are not 100% sure if 
Florian 'SirElvis' Wagner, the new dev Team member, gets it to work 
until 4th august, but the first test versions loooked very promising.

? VirtualVCR : A great DShow based capturing tool, there is a modified 
version using Gabest' matroska muxer filter, sdome people say its 
wroking great and better than built in AVI, others say they have problems.


LINUX :

mkvtoolnix/mkvmerge : http://www.bunkus.org/videotools/mkvtoolnix/ as 
written above, this tool is incredibly important for the complete 
project, and for Linux users its the one and only

mplayer : http://mplayerhq.hu ,  i have no clue how we could precompile 
mplayer with matroska support, maybe some MKV freaks could create RPMs 
for SuSE ( most used Linux distro in Germany ) and Debian, and we 
include them on the CD  ?

Gstreamer-plugin : I'd like to hear your opinion here markus, Ronald 
'BBB' Bultje has invested a lot of his private time to get this plugin 
working, and Gstreamer is the official multimedia platform for GNOME now 
.. should we include the plugin also ?

? GENTOO ? Is this of any interest ? I am convinced i could organize a 
GENTOO version with MKV support, if this is wanted by CHIP.


BeOS/MacOSX :

Only playback for now AFAIK, again we had to search for a way to include 
mplayer binaries for those OS, so the users can at least play MKV fiiles 
fine, although i heard VLC is working for those OS also, with built in 
MKV support.

Tell me what you think Markus ...is this too much ?? Or is anything 
important missing ? Can we include all of them ? will matroska be 
introduced well with all these tools ?

Thanks and best regards

Christian








From dave at leatherdale.net  Thu Jul 31 23:25:10 2003
From: dave at leatherdale.net (David Leatherdale)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 22:25:10 +0100
Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: [Fwd: AW: CHIP Release - Listing of released
	software]
In-Reply-To: <3F29614B.3060905@matroska.org>
References: <3F29614B.3060905@matroska.org>
Message-ID: <3F298936.9000906@leatherdale.net>

Christian HJ Wiesner wrote:
> @ DaveEL : you have any ides about avs2mkv ? Can it be released ?

Not a chance im afraid the bitstream is fux0red now ive fixed all the 
file structure bugs.

DaveEL