From steve.lhomme at free.fr  Sun Jun  6 20:15:52 2004
From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme)
Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 20:15:52 +0200
Subject: [Matroska-devel] Tags internationalisation
Message-ID: <40C35F58.6070706@free.fr>

Hi,

I was just pissed for the Xth time by iTunes that changed all my Ambient 
  genre tracks to Ambiance, just because iTunes is in french... And then 
I just wondered how Matroska would handle this. After all there might be 
some genre that have different names in different countries...

IMO the genres should be in english, and the internationalised software 
should translate it (with a map we could define). Some genres might be 
country specific and therefore in the native language. Also it should 
still be possible to use custom genres. But then you don't need to 
translate them to interact with other softwares.

What do you think of this issue ? Or maybe allow to set the language for 
a genre (and use a list of translations when possible) ? Or use both a 
string and a number ?



From jcsston at wiesneronline.net  Sun Jun  6 21:00:18 2004
From: jcsston at wiesneronline.net (Jory)
Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 14:00:18 -0500
Subject: [Matroska-devel] Tags internationalisation
References: <40C35F58.6070706@free.fr>
Message-ID: <000c01c44bf8$8f571cc0$0200a8c0@jcsston>

The best way to handle this I think would be to have English be the default
genre language, using the native language for special genres.
Then in tag editing programs that are non-English it should translate the
English names to the users language and back to English when writing the
tags. If the user enters a genre the doesn't exist in the English table,
write it as the user language as it would likely be a native or custom
genre.
IMHO Using a number to id the genre isn't a great idea since they don't mean
anything to the user and require a lookup table for it to be any use. (think
outdated software)

Jory

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Lhomme" <steve.lhomme at free.fr>
To: "Discussion about the current and future development of Matroska"
<matroska-devel at lists.matroska.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 1:15 PM
Subject: [Matroska-devel] Tags internationalisation


> Hi,
>
> I was just pissed for the Xth time by iTunes that changed all my Ambient
>   genre tracks to Ambiance, just because iTunes is in french... And then
> I just wondered how Matroska would handle this. After all there might be
> some genre that have different names in different countries...
>
> IMO the genres should be in english, and the internationalised software
> should translate it (with a map we could define). Some genres might be
> country specific and therefore in the native language. Also it should
> still be possible to use custom genres. But then you don't need to
> translate them to interact with other softwares.
>
> What do you think of this issue ? Or maybe allow to set the language for
> a genre (and use a list of translations when possible) ? Or use both a
> string and a number ?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Matroska-devel mailing list
> Matroska-devel at lists.matroska.org
> http://lists.matroska.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/matroska-devel



From spyder at matroska.org  Tue Jun  8 01:09:33 2004
From: spyder at matroska.org (John Cannon)
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 18:09:33 -0500
Subject: [Matroska-devel] Tags internationalisation
In-Reply-To: <000c01c44bf8$8f571cc0$0200a8c0@jcsston>
References: <40C35F58.6070706@free.fr> <000c01c44bf8$8f571cc0$0200a8c0@jcsston>
Message-ID: <40C4F5AD.5050007@matroska.org>

I agree, the genre names should be in English by default and the program
should handle translation.  Also, number IDs are really bad for this.
It would be too complicated to keep updated and shared.  The programs
can use the English name as the ID if necessary.

John



From steve.lhomme at free.fr  Tue Jun  8 13:52:02 2004
From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme)
Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 13:52:02 +0200
Subject: [Matroska-devel] Tags & RDF
Message-ID: <40C5A862.4010209@free.fr>

Hi,

As some one you may have noticed in the ML, I want to work on a project 
called CoreSync/CoreLib/MDDLib. For more info on CoreLib/CoreSync please 
have a look at my page : http://mukoli.free.fr/corelib/

The idea is to be able to sync folders/devices and also have a local 
DataBase of your multimedia content (first target is audio). And talking 
with the people working on MDDLib it seems that storing this DB in and 
working with RDF is the way to go.

RDF is a very simpla way to describe relation between informations. It 
always follow this logic : URI->relation->value. A way to store RDF is 
to use XML (even though that's not the easiest way to read it). The only 
important thing, apart from the relations you build, is the semantic, as 
for EBML and Matroska. And the idea behind RDF is the Semantic Web. 
Which is the idea that says that the content of the web and most 
specifically the meta informations on this content should be 
standardised. So that everyone uses the same tags, so that a computer 
could process it.

For CoreLib/MDDLib we'll want to store meta informations on various 
files in a DB. And these info will come from tags (ID3, Matroska, APE, 
whatever). So we'll probably need a mapping at some point to know which 
tag correspond to which RDF element to output (either done when storing 
in the DB or when getting data from the DB). So I suggest that in the 
tags mapping we already have we add the corresponding RDF elements (or 
actually the semantic element we want to use, because anyone is free to 
redefine his own semantic)... Most probably some tags will match the 
DublinCore semantic or the RSS semantic. When no known elements is found 
  we can create our own semantic.

Pamel can you do that ? I can help on understanding RDF, the known 
semantics and such.




From bottanek at radlight.com  Thu Jun 10 21:40:41 2004
From: bottanek at radlight.com (Martin Bottanek)
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 21:40:41 +0200
Subject: [Matroska-devel] Subtitles
Message-ID: <caadfr$q0l$1@sea.gmane.org>

I have ripped the subtitle stream of MKV file into a file. How do I parse
the file/stream? Is there any documentation on this?

Thanks





From paul at msn.com  Fri Jun 11 00:19:37 2004
From: paul at msn.com (Paul Bryson)
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 17:19:37 -0500
Subject: [Matroska-devel] Re: Subtitles
References: <caadfr$q0l$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <caampk$gec$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Martin Bottanek" wrote...
> I have ripped the subtitle stream of MKV file into a file. How do I parse
> the file/stream? Is there any documentation on this?

I'm afraid I'm not sure what you mean.  Do you mean that you had an MKV that
contained subtitles, but you extracted the subtitles to a seperate file?  If so,
how did you extract it, and what kind of file do you have now?


Pamel





From steve.lhomme at free.fr  Sat Jun 12 00:00:21 2004
From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme)
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 00:00:21 +0200
Subject: [Matroska-devel] Re: [gst-devel] RE: Win 32 build of 0.8.3
In-Reply-To: <94B5269608AE7047ADD54B0D1CB1CABE014181B4@livmsg11.corp.jabil.org>
References: <94B5269608AE7047ADD54B0D1CB1CABE014181B4@livmsg11.corp.jabil.org>
Message-ID: <40CA2B75.7080704@free.fr>

I managed to fix the gettext problems and enable NLS again for GLib and 
GStreamer. I used gettext/libiconv packages from gettext.sourceforge.net...

It's not working (internationalisation) yet, but it's not crashing 
anymore. Maybe later we could have real native language under Windows too...

So now we can run a few command lines and create the registry (still the 
overwrite problem that we'll have to debug).

I uploaded my working environment with all latest fixes and CVS updates.

http://mukoli.free.fr/gstreamer/GStreamer-dev.env.rar


From bottanek at radlight.com  Wed Jun 16 21:45:10 2004
From: bottanek at radlight.com (Martin Bottanek)
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 21:45:10 +0200
Subject: [Matroska-devel] Subtitles in MKV? Any docs?
Message-ID: <caq807$dpo$1@sea.gmane.org>

Here goes a reply by Igor (as I am not a programmer ;-) )

> well.. our point is to make support for matroska subtitles. I've written a
> dshow filter for handling subtitles embedded in containers.
> It can handle text streams in AVI files as well as OGM and now we want it
to
> process also MKV subtitles.
>
> I've dumped several MKV subtitle streams and the data looks like the
> following :
>
> 0,0,Default,,0,0,0,,Here we go.1,0,Default,,0,0,0,,Hiya
> fellas.2,0,Default,,0,0,0,,It's him.3,0,Default,,0,0,0,,Do we
> proceed?4,0,Default,,0,0,0,,Yes.5,0,Default,,0,0,0,,He is
> still,6,0,Default,,0,0,0,,only human.7,0,Default,,0,0,0,,All of our lives,
> we have fought this war.8,0,Default,,0,0,0,,Tonight I believe we can end
> it.9,0,Default,,0,0,0,,That's a nice trick.10,0,Default,,0,0,0,,Hm,
> upgrades.11,0,Default,,0,0,0,,Mr.
Anderson...12,0,Default,,0,0,0,,Surprised,
> to see me?13,0,Default,,0,0,0,,Now he's found a way to copy
> himself.14,0,Default,,0,0,0,,Now there's more than one of
> him?15,0,Default,,0,0,0,,A lot more.16,0,Default,,0,0,0,,Come on
> !17,0,Default,,0,0,0,,The machines are
digging.18,0,Default,,0,0,0,,They're
> boring from the surface straight down to Zion.19,0,Default,,0,0,0,,There
is
> only one way to save our
> city.20,0,Default,,0,0,0,,Neo.21,0,Default,,0,0,0,,What happens if I
> fail?22,0,Default,,0,0,0,,Then Zion will fall.23,0,Default,,0,0,0,,They
need
> you.24,0,Default,,0,0,0,,I need you.25,0,Default,,0,0,0,,What if the
> prophecy is true?26,0,Default,,0,0,0,,What if tomorrow, the war could be
> over?27,0,Default,,0,0,0,,Isn't that worth fighting
> for?28,0,Default,,0,0,0,,Isn't that worth dying for?
>
> the timestamped data looks a bit like SSA, but I want to be sure I'm doing
> everything right....
> is there anyone to tell me more about the subs ?
>
> best
> Igor





From moritz at bunkus.org  Thu Jun 17 10:11:17 2004
From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus)
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:11:17 +0200
Subject: [Matroska-devel] Subtitles in MKV? Any docs?
In-Reply-To: <caq807$dpo$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <caq807$dpo$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20040617081117.GU7379@bunkus.org>

Hi,,

> > well.. our point is to make support for matroska subtitles. I've written a
> > dshow filter for handling subtitles embedded in containers.

Out of curiosity - why aren't you using Gabest's VSFilter?

> > I've dumped several MKV subtitle streams and the data looks like the
> > following :
> >
> > 0,0,Default,,0,0,0,,Here we go.
> > 1,0,Default,,0,0,0,,Hiya fellas.

There are basically three subtitle formats in Matroska at the
moment. They're identified by their CodecID element. Two of them are
text formats (S_TEXT/UTF8 and S_TEXT/SSA / S_TEXT/ASS), then third one
is the same format used on DVDs (S_VOBSUB) which is a graphical format.

The simpler format of the two text formats is S_TEXT/UTF8. It just
contains the text to display in each packet. The timecode and the
duration are set by the container (BlockTimecode and BlockDuration
elements). There's no special format inside. It's just the simple SRT
file format converted to Matroska, so there may be HTML like tags to
alter the appearance.

S_TEXT/SSA and S_TEXT/ASS are imported SubStation Alpha / Advanced SSA
subtitles. You can find the general description of this format somewhere
on the net. As for the additions in ASS you can have a look at
http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=19407&group_id=82303

Now those lines are not stored 1:1 in Matroska but transformed a
bit. Here's a quick overview:

1. The global settings in a SSA file (the [Script Info] and [V4 Styles]
   sections) are stored in the track's CodecPrivate element in pure text
   form.

2. Each line in the original file looks something like this:
   Dialogue: Marked=0,0:00:01.00,0:00:10.00,*Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\fs50\fnCHRISTINA\fe2}test
   Such a line is transformed. First, 'Dialogue: Marked=' is removed. So
   are the start and end time which are again stored in Matroska's
   BlockTimecode and BlockDuration elements. Last this line is prepended
   with the line number in the original file. So if this was the second
   'Dialogue: ...' entry in the original SSA file we'd end up with a
   line in Matroska like this:
   2,0,,,*Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\fs50\fnCHRISTINA\fe2}test

> > the timestamped data looks a bit like SSA, but I want to be sure I'm doing
> > everything right....

It is SSA or ASS with the transformations mentioned above, yes.

Mosu

-- 
If Darl McBride was in charge, he'd probably make marriage
unconstitutional too, since clearly it de-emphasizes the commercial
nature of normal human interaction, and probably is a major impediment
to the commercial growth of prostitution. - Linus Torvalds


From bottanek at radlight.com  Thu Jun 17 12:04:54 2004
From: bottanek at radlight.com (Martin Bottanek)
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 12:04:54 +0200
Subject: [Matroska-devel] Re: Subtitles in MKV? Any docs?
References: <caq807$dpo$1@sea.gmane.org> <20040617081117.GU7379@bunkus.org>
Message-ID: <carqcf$idb$1@sea.gmane.org>

hey
thanks for response....

we're not using Gabest's VSFilter because we've built our own subtitle
engine powerfull enough to cover all (I hope) subtitle needs... such as
editing, ripping etc...
it's not limited to DirectShow - and not limited to usage of Gabest's
VSFilter.... (we've already done VobSub support too)

I'll do some investigation...

best
Igor

"Moritz Bunkus" <moritz at bunkus.org> wrote in message
news:20040617081117.GU7379 at bunkus.org...
> Hi,,
>
> > > well.. our point is to make support for matroska subtitles. I've
written a
> > > dshow filter for handling subtitles embedded in containers.
>
> Out of curiosity - why aren't you using Gabest's VSFilter?
>
> > > I've dumped several MKV subtitle streams and the data looks like the
> > > following :
> > >
> > > 0,0,Default,,0,0,0,,Here we go.
> > > 1,0,Default,,0,0,0,,Hiya fellas.
>
> There are basically three subtitle formats in Matroska at the
> moment. They're identified by their CodecID element. Two of them are
> text formats (S_TEXT/UTF8 and S_TEXT/SSA / S_TEXT/ASS), then third one
> is the same format used on DVDs (S_VOBSUB) which is a graphical format.
>
> The simpler format of the two text formats is S_TEXT/UTF8. It just
> contains the text to display in each packet. The timecode and the
> duration are set by the container (BlockTimecode and BlockDuration
> elements). There's no special format inside. It's just the simple SRT
> file format converted to Matroska, so there may be HTML like tags to
> alter the appearance.
>
> S_TEXT/SSA and S_TEXT/ASS are imported SubStation Alpha / Advanced SSA
> subtitles. You can find the general description of this format somewhere
> on the net. As for the additions in ASS you can have a look at
> http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=19407&group_id=82303
>
> Now those lines are not stored 1:1 in Matroska but transformed a
> bit. Here's a quick overview:
>
> 1. The global settings in a SSA file (the [Script Info] and [V4 Styles]
>    sections) are stored in the track's CodecPrivate element in pure text
>    form.
>
> 2. Each line in the original file looks something like this:
>    Dialogue:
Marked=0,0:00:01.00,0:00:10.00,*Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\fs50\fnCHRISTINA\
fe2}test
>    Such a line is transformed. First, 'Dialogue: Marked=' is removed. So
>    are the start and end time which are again stored in Matroska's
>    BlockTimecode and BlockDuration elements. Last this line is prepended
>    with the line number in the original file. So if this was the second
>    'Dialogue: ...' entry in the original SSA file we'd end up with a
>    line in Matroska like this:
>    2,0,,,*Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\fs50\fnCHRISTINA\fe2}test
>
> > > the timestamped data looks a bit like SSA, but I want to be sure I'm
doing
> > > everything right....
>
> It is SSA or ASS with the transformations mentioned above, yes.
>
> Mosu
>
> -- 
> If Darl McBride was in charge, he'd probably make marriage
> unconstitutional too, since clearly it de-emphasizes the commercial
> nature of normal human interaction, and probably is a major impediment
> to the commercial growth of prostitution. - Linus Torvalds





From moritz at bunkus.org  Thu Jun 17 12:17:13 2004
From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus)
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 12:17:13 +0200
Subject: [Matroska-devel] Re: Subtitles in MKV? Any docs?
In-Reply-To: <carqcf$idb$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <caq807$dpo$1@sea.gmane.org> <20040617081117.GU7379@bunkus.org>
	<carqcf$idb$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20040617101713.GA25704@bunkus.org>

Him

> thanks for response....

You're welcome.

> we're not using Gabest's VSFilter because...

I see :)

> (we've already done VobSub support too)

If you want to support VobSub in Matroska, too, then you'll have to be
aware of the storage method used. Like S_TEXT/SSA the contents are
changed for S_VOBSUB.

1. The studd that's found in the .IDX file is put into the CodecPrivate
   element. This does not include the 'timestamp:' entries, of course.

2. The actual packets ONLY contain the SPU packets, not the surrounding
   MPEG stream. Also one Matroska block contains all the SPU sub-packets
   that belong to this SPU packet - so SPU packet assembly is done in
   the muxer, not in the filter.

Those are the two main differences between VobSub stored in external
.idx/.sub files and VobSub stored in Matroska.

Mosu

-- 
If Darl McBride was in charge, he'd probably make marriage
unconstitutional too, since clearly it de-emphasizes the commercial
nature of normal human interaction, and probably is a major impediment
to the commercial growth of prostitution. - Linus Torvalds


From davenger at radlight.com  Fri Jun 18 16:42:46 2004
From: davenger at radlight.com (Martin Bottanek)
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 16:42:46 +0200
Subject: [Matroska-devel] Re: Re: Subtitles in MKV? Any docs?
References: <caq807$dpo$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<20040617081117.GU7379@bunkus.org><carqcf$idb$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<20040617101713.GA25704@bunkus.org>
Message-ID: <cauv0o$ta4$1@sea.gmane.org>

Thanks. Do you know where could I get a Matroska+VobSub sample file?


"Moritz Bunkus" <moritz at bunkus.org> wrote in message
news:20040617101713.GA25704 at bunkus.org...
> Him
>
> > thanks for response....
>
> You're welcome.
>
> > we're not using Gabest's VSFilter because...
>
> I see :)
>
> > (we've already done VobSub support too)
>
> If you want to support VobSub in Matroska, too, then you'll have to be
> aware of the storage method used. Like S_TEXT/SSA the contents are
> changed for S_VOBSUB.
>
> 1. The studd that's found in the .IDX file is put into the CodecPrivate
>    element. This does not include the 'timestamp:' entries, of course.
>
> 2. The actual packets ONLY contain the SPU packets, not the surrounding
>    MPEG stream. Also one Matroska block contains all the SPU sub-packets
>    that belong to this SPU packet - so SPU packet assembly is done in
>    the muxer, not in the filter.
>
> Those are the two main differences between VobSub stored in external
> .idx/.sub files and VobSub stored in Matroska.
>
> Mosu
>
> --
> If Darl McBride was in charge, he'd probably make marriage
> unconstitutional too, since clearly it de-emphasizes the commercial
> nature of normal human interaction, and probably is a major impediment
> to the commercial growth of prostitution. - Linus Torvalds





From davenger at radlight.com  Fri Jun 18 17:50:36 2004
From: davenger at radlight.com (Martin Bottanek)
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 17:50:36 +0200
Subject: [Matroska-devel] Re: Re: Subtitles in MKV? Any docs?
References: <caq807$dpo$1@sea.gmane.org><20040617081117.GU7379@bunkus.org><carqcf$idb$1@sea.gmane.org><20040617101713.GA25704@bunkus.org>
	<cauv0o$ta4$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <cav2vt$8ob$1@sea.gmane.org>

Nevermind ... I found one ;)

Seems to work fine. New RadLight will support all subs in MKV natively :D

Thanks again!

"Martin Bottanek" <davenger at radlight.com> wrote in message
news:cauv0o$ta4$1 at sea.gmane.org...
> Thanks. Do you know where could I get a Matroska+VobSub sample file?
>
>
> "Moritz Bunkus" <moritz at bunkus.org> wrote in message
> news:20040617101713.GA25704 at bunkus.org...
> > Him
> >
> > > thanks for response....
> >
> > You're welcome.
> >
> > > we're not using Gabest's VSFilter because...
> >
> > I see :)
> >
> > > (we've already done VobSub support too)
> >
> > If you want to support VobSub in Matroska, too, then you'll have to be
> > aware of the storage method used. Like S_TEXT/SSA the contents are
> > changed for S_VOBSUB.
> >
> > 1. The studd that's found in the .IDX file is put into the CodecPrivate
> >    element. This does not include the 'timestamp:' entries, of course.
> >
> > 2. The actual packets ONLY contain the SPU packets, not the surrounding
> >    MPEG stream. Also one Matroska block contains all the SPU sub-packets
> >    that belong to this SPU packet - so SPU packet assembly is done in
> >    the muxer, not in the filter.
> >
> > Those are the two main differences between VobSub stored in external
> > .idx/.sub files and VobSub stored in Matroska.
> >
> > Mosu
> >
> > --
> > If Darl McBride was in charge, he'd probably make marriage
> > unconstitutional too, since clearly it de-emphasizes the commercial
> > nature of normal human interaction, and probably is a major impediment
> > to the commercial growth of prostitution. - Linus Torvalds





From paul at msn.com  Fri Jun 18 23:27:55 2004
From: paul at msn.com (Paul Bryson)
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 16:27:55 -0500
Subject: [Matroska-devel] Re: Re: Subtitles in MKV? Any docs?
References: <caq807$dpo$1@sea.gmane.org><20040617081117.GU7379@bunkus.org><carqcf$idb$1@sea.gmane.org><20040617101713.GA25704@bunkus.org>
	<cauv0o$ta4$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <cavmog$l7f$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Martin Bottanek" wrote...
> Thanks. Do you know where could I get a Matroska+VobSub sample file?

For more questions on subtitles, this page may help you:

http://commo.de/matroska/doc/website/technical/specs/subtitles/index.html

While the server is down I am taking the time to rework the website so there are
several broken links and incomplete information, but it should have what you
need.


Pamel





From Liisachan at faireal.net  Tue Jun 22 05:17:42 2004
From: Liisachan at faireal.net (Liisachan)
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 12:17:42 +0900
Subject: [Matroska-devel] MatroskaSplitter 1.0.2.2+ Potentially Buggy?
Message-ID: <20040622121742AX6bkj@faireal.net>

this is a (probable) bug report,
from users in Japan.

i ve just posted this for them at
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=78474
because they are too shy to do that by themselves...

Is this a known problem?

-----
 MatroskaSplitter 1.0.2.2+ Potentially Buggy?

MatroskaSplitter 1.0.2.2 / 1.0.2.3 doesn't report the accurate fps to the downstream filter such as ffdshow, or to BsPlayer; it says the framerate is 25 even if the correct value is like 24 or 30. This doesnt seem to cause any major problems atm, but some users report minor, occasional jitters which allegedly will be fixed by using the older MatroskaSplitter. (I personally have not ever experienced this jitter problem.) So we should assume that the newer versions (1.0.2.2+) are potentially problematic in some ways.
The current version is 1.0.2.3. Matroska_Pack_Full_v1.0.2.exe contains that version too.

These pics demonstrate what is happening:
http://m17n.cool.ne.jp/matroska/splitter-problem.html

Can anyone confirm this please?

I know Gabest is not around much these days, but if there IS a problem, I hope itll be fixed before "Matroska 1.0" is out...

-----

Liisachan



From steve.lhomme at free.fr  Tue Jun 22 12:57:09 2004
From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme)
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 12:57:09 +0200
Subject: [Matroska-devel] Perspective
Message-ID: <40D81085.7030405@free.fr>

Hi everyone,

After a long pause (even though work still continued) I think it's time 
to start working hard again on our Matroska baby.

We all have been away mostly for RL issues and it seems that it's not 
going to change soon. I personally think I will have more and more spare 
time to work on my projects, but you never know how life is going to 
be... And I really think there are lots of things to be done. A lot of 
things that I need in my everyday (multimedia) life and I assume it 
would be the same for many other people. Unfortunately I can't do all 
these things on my own in a limited time (and we all like to be the 
first in our area, don't we). So we need to get (better) organised to 
have things actually done, to keep things moving.

As we are not a company and can't/won't force anyone to work I think 
it's better to let everyone work on the things they prefer/need. I 
wouldn't like to be told what I should do/enjoy... So my idea is to put 
up a list of all the possible things that we should do and then people 
(devs or webmasters) can pick things they want to work on and start 
working on it. I think it's also good to put an estimation of the time 
each task will take and the complexity with a note between 1 and 5 for 
each, not actual times: 1 for easy/fast, 5 for complex/long. This way 
anyone can know if he/she will have enough time/knowledge to work on 
something.

The basis of this list will be there :

http://wiki.corecodec.org/wiki/TODO_list_-_Known_issues_-_Things_to_improve

I'm currently adding possible evolutions/ideas and where they should 
apply. Then we can add the time/complexity estimation.

Any idea / suggestion / agreement / disagreement ?

-- 
robUx4 on blog <http://robux4.blogspot.com/>



From moritz at bunkus.org  Wed Jun 23 18:49:50 2004
From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus)
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 18:49:50 +0200
Subject: [Matroska-devel] Re: [Matroska-general] Perspective
In-Reply-To: <40D81085.7030405@free.fr>
References: <40D81085.7030405@free.fr>
Message-ID: <20040623164950.GL25704@bunkus.org>

Hi,

> So we need to get (better) organised to have things actually done, to
> keep things moving.

I agree.

> Any idea / suggestion / agreement / disagreement ?

I'll rearrange my priorities a bit and push B frame / native MPEG4 to
the top (well below fixing bugs but above implementing other new
features). Same goes for TTA and Wavpack. I'll also look into adding the
latter two to mplayer - I definitely have to do that in order to have a
working test platform.

The complexity is... Well... B frames / native MPEG4 will be
interesting. Native MPEG4 involves removing some parts of the bitstream
(in AVI each MPEG4 is preprended with some bits (dunno what they do). In
MP4 this is not the case, and Matroska's native mode should not contain
this stuff either), and this seems to be easy enough. Getting the
players (I'll definitely fix mplayer and try to fix vlc & xine) do
accept that should be easy if they can already handle MPEG4 in MP4 which
all three do. B frames with proper timestamping is more difficult,
though, and I have no idea how long it'll take me.

Let's say I can get it all working by end of July.

The complexity for TTA/Wavpack is unknown to me so far because I haven't
looked at how much source and documentation is available for both
projects. I'll take a look at that this weekend.

About the 'editor'. This is of course the biggest project. But before I
start working one bit for it we'll have to be clear about the license to
use. Maybe you've already come to a conclusion, but I don't know of any
decisions. The thing is that I won't work on it if the editor will not
be Open Source. I don't want a crippled version and a full
version. That's not Open Source, and that's not something I want to work
for.

Mosu

-- 
If Darl McBride was in charge, he'd probably make marriage
unconstitutional too, since clearly it de-emphasizes the commercial
nature of normal human interaction, and probably is a major impediment
to the commercial growth of prostitution. - Linus Torvalds


From steve.lhomme at free.fr  Thu Jun 24 10:35:07 2004
From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme)
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 10:35:07 +0200
Subject: [Matroska-devel] Re: Perspective
Message-ID: <40DA923B.1070002@free.fr>

 > The complexity is... Well... B frames / native MPEG4 will be
 > interesting. Native MPEG4 involves removing some parts of the
 > bitstream(in AVI each MPEG4 is preprended with some bits (dunno what
 > they do). In MP4 this is not the case, and Matroska's native mode

Maybe you should ask some Xvid people or FFMPEG people what are these 
bits, they probably know.

 > should not contain this stuff either), and this seems to be easy
 > enough. Getting the players (I'll definitely fix mplayer and try to
 > fix vlc & xine) do accept that should be easy if they can already
 > handle MPEG4 in MP4 which all three do. B frames with proper
 > timestamping is more difficult, though, and I have no idea how long
 > it'll take me.

I see. Well, once it's done... It's done ;)

 > The complexity for TTA/Wavpack is unknown to me so far because I
 > haven't looked at how much source and documentation is available for
 > both projects. I'll take a look at that this weekend.

I had a look at TTA and it's *very* simple. All frames have the same 
duration (except the last one) and a very small header. Dunno about 
Wavpack but I guess it's something like that too.

Both are open source and working on Linux and working on libraries. So 
it should not be long to have MPLayer read these files too.

 > About the 'editor'. This is of course the biggest project. But before
 > I start working one bit for it we'll have to be clear about the
 > license to use. Maybe you've already come to a conclusion, but I don't
 > know of any decisions. The thing is that I won't work on it if the
 > editor will not be Open Source. I don't want a crippled version and a
 > full version. That's not Open Source, and that's not something I want
 > to work for.

Nothing is defined yet. And this is actually a sensitive issue.
IMO if we start it from scratch we'll build something powerful out of 
nowhere and it will be long, will need a lot of input, etc.
If we build it over GStreamer it will be mostly a GUI over an engine. So 
it will take less time (even though GStreamer is probably not mature 
enough on all platforms and we'll spend some time imrpoving it) and less 
people. So I think we should go this way. And there would be no point in 
wanting to get money for such a thing. It could become the GIMP of video 
:D (hopefully nicer)

-- 
robUx4 on blog <http://robux4.blogspot.com/>



From bottanek at radlight.com  Thu Jun 24 16:48:57 2004
From: bottanek at radlight.com (Martin Bottanek)
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 16:48:57 +0200
Subject: [Matroska-devel] Re: Perspective
References: <40D81085.7030405@free.fr>
Message-ID: <cbepnh$edp$1@sea.gmane.org>

I honestly believe you guys should get some experienced manager on board who
would "show you & lead the way"

Martin

"Steve Lhomme" <steve.lhomme at free.fr> wrote in message
news:40D81085.7030405 at free.fr...
> Hi everyone,
>
> After a long pause (even though work still continued) I think it's time
> to start working hard again on our Matroska baby.
>
> We all have been away mostly for RL issues and it seems that it's not
> going to change soon. I personally think I will have more and more spare
> time to work on my projects, but you never know how life is going to
> be... And I really think there are lots of things to be done. A lot of
> things that I need in my everyday (multimedia) life and I assume it
> would be the same for many other people. Unfortunately I can't do all
> these things on my own in a limited time (and we all like to be the
> first in our area, don't we). So we need to get (better) organised to
> have things actually done, to keep things moving.
>
> As we are not a company and can't/won't force anyone to work I think
> it's better to let everyone work on the things they prefer/need. I
> wouldn't like to be told what I should do/enjoy... So my idea is to put
> up a list of all the possible things that we should do and then people
> (devs or webmasters) can pick things they want to work on and start
> working on it. I think it's also good to put an estimation of the time
> each task will take and the complexity with a note between 1 and 5 for
> each, not actual times: 1 for easy/fast, 5 for complex/long. This way
> anyone can know if he/she will have enough time/knowledge to work on
> something.
>
> The basis of this list will be there :
>
>
http://wiki.corecodec.org/wiki/TODO_list_-_Known_issues_-_Things_to_improve
>
> I'm currently adding possible evolutions/ideas and where they should
> apply. Then we can add the time/complexity estimation.
>
> Any idea / suggestion / agreement / disagreement ?
>
> -- 
> robUx4 on blog <http://robux4.blogspot.com/>





From steve.lhomme at free.fr  Thu Jun 24 17:12:44 2004
From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme)
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 17:12:44 +0200
Subject: [Matroska-devel] Re: Perspective
In-Reply-To: <cbepnh$edp$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <40D81085.7030405@free.fr> <cbepnh$edp$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <40DAEF6C.2080806@free.fr>

Martin Bottanek a ?crit :

> I honestly believe you guys should get some experienced manager on board who
> would "show you & lead the way"

That's supposed to be Christian ;)

But we would need one that work for free. And that knows about free 
software... Maybe we are too ambitious and too few to achieve our goals. 
We know what we want. It's just not easy to get there. And none of us 
want to receive orders from any other team member. That's the idea 
behind the /pull/ thing.

thx for the comment.


From janos at radlight.com  Thu Jun 24 17:54:33 2004
From: janos at radlight.com (Igor Janos)
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 17:54:33 +0200
Subject: [Matroska-devel] Re: MatroskaSplitter 1.0.2.2+ Potentially Buggy?
References: <20040622121742AX6bkj@faireal.net>
Message-ID: <cbetft$q3e$1@sea.gmane.org>

Another problem found. When implementing subtitle support I've found out
that there is some problem with the splitter when not all pins are
connected. I get lockups :Z.... the strange thing is that when I seek at
some place the lockup the lockup is gone and the file plays ok.... it just
does not work from the beginning :(

who is in charge of the splitter ? ... since my school semester has ended I
have quite a lot of time for coding.. perhaps I could take a look if you
wish.

best,
Igor


"Liisachan" <Liisachan at faireal.net> wrote in message
news:20040622121742AX6bkj at faireal.net...
> this is a (probable) bug report,
> from users in Japan.
>
> i ve just posted this for them at
> http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=78474
> because they are too shy to do that by themselves...
>
> Is this a known problem?
>
> -----
>  MatroskaSplitter 1.0.2.2+ Potentially Buggy?
>
> MatroskaSplitter 1.0.2.2 / 1.0.2.3 doesn't report the accurate fps to the
downstream filter such as ffdshow, or to BsPlayer; it says the framerate is
25 even if the correct value is like 24 or 30. This doesnt seem to cause any
major problems atm, but some users report minor, occasional jitters which
allegedly will be fixed by using the older MatroskaSplitter. (I personally
have not ever experienced this jitter problem.) So we should assume that the
newer versions (1.0.2.2+) are potentially problematic in some ways.
> The current version is 1.0.2.3. Matroska_Pack_Full_v1.0.2.exe contains
that version too.
>
> These pics demonstrate what is happening:
> http://m17n.cool.ne.jp/matroska/splitter-problem.html
>
> Can anyone confirm this please?
>
> I know Gabest is not around much these days, but if there IS a problem, I
hope itll be fixed before "Matroska 1.0" is out...
>
> -----
>
> Liisachan





From chris at matroska.org  Thu Jun 24 21:58:22 2004
From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner)
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 21:58:22 +0200
Subject: [Matroska-general] Re: [Matroska-devel] Re: Perspective
In-Reply-To: <40DAEF6C.2080806@free.fr>
References: <40D81085.7030405@free.fr> <cbepnh$edp$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<40DAEF6C.2080806@free.fr>
Message-ID: <40DB325E.2020206@matroska.org>

Steve Lhomme wrote:

> Martin Bottanek a ?crit :
>
>> I honestly believe you guys should get some experienced manager on 
>> board who
>> would "show you & lead the way"
>
>
> That's supposed to be Christian ;)
>
> But we would need one that work for free. And that knows about free 
> software... Maybe we are too ambitious and too few to achieve our 
> goals. We know what we want. It's just not easy to get there. And none 
> of us want to receive orders from any other team member. That's the 
> idea behind the /pull/ thing.


Guys,

in the last couple of months i was trying again and again to motivate 
the team members to bring matroska forward. The only real progress was 
with mkvtoolnix, again. Then i tried to concentrate on MPC, i organized 
the PC for Frank, hoping he might get motivated again to work on it. It 
seems it was not really effective what i did, there wasnt a lot of 
progress lately.

Maybe the right time for me to lean back and bit, and to see if i am 
maybe pushing too hard, and the other team members are more demotivated 
than motivated by all my pushing. Steve's email is a kind of proof for 
that already, if you want to see it like that ;) .....

Christian


From paul at msn.com  Fri Jun 25 06:15:45 2004
From: paul at msn.com (Paul Bryson)
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 23:15:45 -0500
Subject: [Matroska-devel] Re: Perspective
References: <40D81085.7030405@free.fr>
Message-ID: <cbg8te$6r0$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Steve Lhomme" wrote in message...
> The basis of this list will be there :
>
> http://wiki.corecodec.org/wiki/TODO_list_-_Known_issues_-_Things_to_improve
>
> I'm currently adding possible evolutions/ideas and where they should
> apply. Then we can add the time/complexity estimation.
>
> Any idea / suggestion / agreement / disagreement ?

Agreement.

However, it be wise to use the abilities built into GForge to handle tasks.


Pamel





From chris at matroska.org  Sun Jun 27 13:50:37 2004
From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner)
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 13:50:37 +0200
Subject: [Matroska-devel] Current Status of WinStreamer ?
Message-ID: <40DEB48D.4020004@matroska.org>


Hi,

can anybody give me a short update on the status of the Windows port of 
Gstreamer ? Its essential for us to be able to release a first working 
binary of it, and as soon as possible, to show that there has been some 
progress on achieving our goals.

I dont expect a lot of functionality for it yet, if it can play or 
convert WAV into MP3, this would be enough for a start IMHO. There are 
dozens of Windows multimedia programmers who are still searching for a 
x-platform alternative to DirectShow, and i believe that the message 
that there is work being done on such an alternative, and completely 
opensource, would hit the development scene like a hammer !

Speaking of the timing, we shouldnt launch and publish WinStreamer in 
the summer break, so we either get this out before middle of July, or we 
spare it for beginning of September IMO.

Regards

Christian
matroska project admin


From bottanek at radlight.com  Wed Jun 30 17:30:28 2004
From: bottanek at radlight.com (Martin Bottanek)
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 17:30:28 +0200
Subject: [Matroska-devel] Matroska + Delphi
Message-ID: <cbumag$raq$1@sea.gmane.org>

Hi,

Is there a way how to find out all kind of information (duration, sample
rate, bitrate of streams) about the MKV/A file without using the Matroska
LIB? Preferrably in Delphi?

Thanks,
Martin





From steve.lhomme at free.fr  Wed Jun 30 17:36:49 2004
From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme)
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 17:36:49 +0200
Subject: [Matroska-devel] Matroska + Delphi
In-Reply-To: <cbumag$raq$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <cbumag$raq$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <40E2DE11.2060505@free.fr>

Martin Bottanek a ?crit :

> Hi,
> 
> Is there a way how to find out all kind of information (duration, sample
> rate, bitrate of streams) about the MKV/A file without using the Matroska
> LIB? Preferrably in Delphi?

What do you call the Matroska LIB ? The DShow filter ?

-- 
robUx4 on blog <http://robux4.blogspot.com/>


From alexander.noe at s2001.tu-chemnitz.de  Wed Jun 30 17:42:14 2004
From: alexander.noe at s2001.tu-chemnitz.de (=?UTF-8?B?QWxleGFuZGVyIE5vw6k=?=)
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 17:42:14 +0200
Subject: [Matroska-devel] Matroska + Delphi
In-Reply-To: <cbumag$raq$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <cbumag$raq$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <40E2DF56.8020207@hrz.tu-chemnitz.de>

Martin Bottanek wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Is there a way how to find out all kind of information (duration, sample
> rate, bitrate of streams) about the MKV/A file without using the Matroska
> LIB? Preferrably in Delphi?

http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/~noe/Video-Zeug/matroska_lib/index.html



Alex



From janickovic at radlight.com  Wed Jun 30 18:59:34 2004
From: janickovic at radlight.com (Peter "Kekso" Janickovic)
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 18:59:34 +0200
Subject: [Matroska-devel] Re: Matroska + Delphi
References: <cbumag$raq$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <cburin$br2$1@sea.gmane.org>

Yes this is exactly what I need, but i would prefer the DLL source, i need
functions from it.

Thanks ...

"Martin Bottanek" <bottanek at radlight.com> wrote in message
news:cbumag$raq$1 at sea.gmane.org...
> Hi,
>
> Is there a way how to find out all kind of information (duration, sample
> rate, bitrate of streams) about the MKV/A file without using the Matroska
> LIB? Preferrably in Delphi?
>
> Thanks,
> Martin





From alexander.noe at s2001.tu-chemnitz.de  Wed Jun 30 19:20:30 2004
From: alexander.noe at s2001.tu-chemnitz.de (=?UTF-8?B?QWxleGFuZGVyIE5vw6k=?=)
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 19:20:30 +0200
Subject: [Matroska-devel] Re: Matroska + Delphi
In-Reply-To: <cburin$br2$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <cbumag$raq$1@sea.gmane.org> <cburin$br2$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <40E2F65E.2080200@hrz.tu-chemnitz.de>

Peter "Kekso" Janickovic wrote:

> Yes this is exactly what I need, but i would prefer the DLL source, i need
> functions from it.

The source of the DLL is C++ .... it is just a DLL around
the Matroska code of AVI-Mux GUI.


Alex



From janickovic at radlight.com  Wed Jun 30 20:11:26 2004
From: janickovic at radlight.com (Peter "Kekso" Janickovic)
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 20:11:26 +0200
Subject: [Matroska-devel] Re: Re: Matroska + Delphi
References: <cbumag$raq$1@sea.gmane.org> <cburin$br2$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<40E2F65E.2080200@hrz.tu-chemnitz.de>
Message-ID: <cbuvp2$o6d$1@sea.gmane.org>

yes, i need it ...
thx

"Alexander No??" <alexander.noe at s2001.tu-chemnitz.de> wrote in message
news:40E2F65E.2080200 at hrz.tu-chemnitz.de...
> Peter "Kekso" Janickovic wrote:
>
> > Yes this is exactly what I need, but i would prefer the DLL source, i
need
> > functions from it.
>
> The source of the DLL is C++ .... it is just a DLL around
> the Matroska code of AVI-Mux GUI.
>
>
> Alex





From alexander.noe at s2001.tu-chemnitz.de  Wed Jun 30 20:40:56 2004
From: alexander.noe at s2001.tu-chemnitz.de (=?UTF-8?B?QWxleGFuZGVyIE5vw6k=?=)
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 20:40:56 +0200
Subject: [Matroska-devel] Re: Re: Matroska + Delphi
In-Reply-To: <cbuvp2$o6d$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <cbumag$raq$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<cburin$br2$1@sea.gmane.org>	<40E2F65E.2080200@hrz.tu-chemnitz.de>
	<cbuvp2$o6d$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <40E30938.5070807@hrz.tu-chemnitz.de>

Peter "Kekso" Janickovic wrote:

 > yes, i need it ...
 > thx

http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/~noe/Video-Zeug/matroska_lib/mtrdllsrc.zip

I hope it compiles on other systems; my source code folder
is a bit obfuscated :o



Alex