From moritz at bunkus.org  Tue Apr 22 00:23:10 2003
From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 00:23:10 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: what app is the best starting point
In-Reply-To: <000101c1b092$50586a50$7124fea9@flicker>
References: <000101c1b092$50586a50$7124fea9@flicker>
Message-ID: <20030421222310.GF27965@bunkus.org>

An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: not available
URL: <http://lists.matroska.org/pipermail/matroska-devel/attachments/20030422/0e0d17e1/attachment.ksh>

From steve.lhomme at free.fr  Fri Apr  4 20:46:08 2003
From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme)
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 21:46:08 +0300
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: GCC compilation
In-Reply-To: <000801c2f014$4cbcf7e0$0200a8c0@jcsston>
References: <1047988469.3e7708f5e74bb@imp.free.fr> <3E770E69.1040501@matroska.org> <000801c2f014$4cbcf7e0$0200a8c0@jcsston>
Message-ID: <3E8DD2F0.9090007@free.fr>


It should be fixed in the latest CVS (on CoreCodec).

Jory wrote:
> I am also having the same trouble as bill_baroud trying to compile spyder's
> mpa2mka with Dev-CPP GCC 2.95.
> 
> The first error is:
> g++.exe -c -g -DDEBUG -Wall -Wno-unknown-pragmas -DGCC2 \
>   -DWRITE_EVEN_UNSET_DATA mpa2mka.cpp -o
> mpa2mka.o -I"C:/Dev-Cpp/include" -I"D:/Visual Studio
> Projects/matroska/libmatroska_sf/src" -pg -g3 -mwindows
> In file included from D:/Visual Studio
> Projects/matroska/libmatroska_sf/src/EbmlTypes.h:43,
>                  from D:/Visual Studio
> Projects/matroska/libmatroska_sf/src/IOCallback.h:39,
>                  from D:/Visual Studio
> Projects/matroska/libmatroska_sf/src/StdIOCallback.h:38,
>                  from mpa2mka.cpp:26:
> D:/Visual Studio
> Projects/matroska/libmatroska_sf/src/api/c/libmatroska_t.h:106: syntax error
> before `;'
> 
> which is the following line
> 
> 106    typedef int64_t int64;
> The lines following 106 also create syntax errors.
> 
> Any hints on which options to use compiling?

http://www.matroska.org


From chris at matroska.org  Fri Apr 11 03:59:08 2003
From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 03:59:08 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: matroska : MPEG1/2 video streams muxing
In-Reply-To: <3E7A1637.5070009@matroska.org>
References: <E18vyKX-0001xO-00@sc8-sf-web3.sourceforge.net> <3E7A1637.5070009@matroska.org>
Message-ID: <3E96216C.9040604@matroska.org>


Christian HJ Wiesner wrote:

>Hi Siriam !
>
>  
>
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=293677#post293677

Interesting read about MPEG2 headers ...

Christian

http://www.matroska.org


From Paul at msn.com  Tue Apr  1 08:42:42 2003
From: Paul at msn.com (Pamel)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 00:42:42 -0600
Subject: [matroska-devel] MP3 Tags
Message-ID: <b6bccj$h76$1@main.gmane.org>

Hey, where are my MP3 ID3v2.4 tags?


Pamel



http://www.matroska.org


From steve.lhomme at free.fr  Tue Apr  1 09:55:04 2003
From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme)
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 09:55:04 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: MP3 Tags
In-Reply-To: <b6bccj$h76$1@main.gmane.org>
References: <b6bccj$h76$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <1049183704.3e8945d838535@imp.free.fr>


En r?ponse ? Pamel <Paul at msn.com>:

> Hey, where are my MP3 ID3v2.4 tags?

I wanted to assign you to this task :D
I added a Tracker about it on CC.org (under Feature Request).
http://www.matroska.org


From steve.lhomme at free.fr  Tue Apr  1 15:38:58 2003
From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme)
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 15:38:58 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [matroska-devel] CVS move
Message-ID: <1049204338.3e89967229b6c@imp.free.fr>


I'm calling for opinions on the move of the Sourceforge CVS for libmatroska and
libebml into the CVS of CoreCodec.

Is the CC CVS stable now ? Noone experienced any problem ? Is it regularly
backed up ?
http://www.matroska.org


From jcsston at ToughGuy.net  Tue Apr  1 17:20:33 2003
From: jcsston at ToughGuy.net (Jory)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 09:20:33 -0600
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: CVS move
References: <1049204338.3e89967229b6c@imp.free.fr>
Message-ID: <004201c2f864$76b6e170$0200a8c0@jcsston>


I haven't had any problems accessing or updating the Corecodec CVS. Other
than
when the project page was down I couldn't access the WebCVS page.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Lhomme" <steve.lhomme at free.fr>
To: "Matroska Development" <matroska-devel at freelists.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 7:38 AM
Subject: [matroska-devel] CVS move


>
> I'm calling for opinions on the move of the Sourceforge CVS for
libmatroska and
> libebml into the CVS of CoreCodec.
>
> Is the CC CVS stable now ? Noone experienced any problem ? Is it regularly
> backed up ?
> http://www.matroska.org


http://www.matroska.org


From chris at matroska.org  Tue Apr  1 21:59:35 2003
From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner)
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 21:59:35 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] matroska container sold to IBM
Message-ID: <3E89EFA7.9040003@matroska.org>



Hi all,

i have some great news to spread today, and i am indeed extremely happy 
that i have the honour of doing so :

The matroska project, including all source code and the main 
specification, by signed contract dated 31st March 2003, was sold to the 
International Bussiness Machine Corporation ( IBM ), New Orchard Road, 
Armonk, NY 10504, USA. . My thanks goes to Dan 'Metaboy' Marlin from the 
Corecodec team for making the initial contact, Dan, without you this 
would have not been possible.

IBM will convert the matroska project and all libraries into a closed 
source format, but make the binaries of the library publically available 
for non-commercial usage, together with an API to be able to read/write 
matroska files from all applications on different OSes. An  arrangement 
was made with all active developers to make it possible to allow a 
changing of the existing GPL/QPL dual licensing system.

After months of hard negotiations there can be no doubt that one of the 
first commercial license takers of matroska will be the Matsushita 
Corporation, Tokyo, Japan, chosing matroska as their main container 
format for an upcoming proprietary blue laser DVD standard to be 
released by Panasonic and some of their licensees on the new standard, 
in an attempt to avoid the domination of the Windows Media Video 9 (TM) 
standard from Micorosoft (R)  for next generations HDTV video. Panasonic 
already announced they will use a wavelet based video codec called WARP, 
created by the IBM video compression department around the well known 
codec expert Mr. Toby Hudon ( performing wavelet on 512 consecutive 
frames, and on every frame itself ), and to use the musepack audio 
compression format ( MPC ) for audio.

I sincerely hope that all of you will see the big advantage for the 
opensource audio and video community in undertaking this step, as from 
now on there will be one new standard a/v container, in possession of 
one of the biggest computer companies of the world, but fully available 
for the community.

Best regards from Hawaii

Christian
http://www.matroska.org



http://www.matroska.org


From Paul at msn.com  Tue Apr  1 17:17:03 2003
From: Paul at msn.com (Pamel)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 09:17:03 -0600
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: matroska container sold to IBM
References: <3E89EFA7.9040003@matroska.org>
Message-ID: <b6cagu$e21$1@main.gmane.org>

*Laughing out loud*  I hope that everyone caught that it is April Fools day
today.


Pamel

"Christian HJ Wiesner" <chris at matroska.org> wrote
>
> Hi all,
>
> i have some great news to spread today, and i am indeed extremely happy
> that i have the honour of doing so :
>
> The matroska project, including all source code and the main
> specification, by signed contract dated 31st March 2003, was sold to the
> International Bussiness Machine Corporation ( IBM ), New Orchard Road,



http://www.matroska.org


From segfault at club-internet.fr  Tue Apr  1 19:23:18 2003
From: segfault at club-internet.fr (Daniel Caujolle-Bert)
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 19:23:18 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: [xine-user] matroska container sold to IBM
In-Reply-To: <3E89EFA7.9040003@matroska.org>
References: <3E89EFA7.9040003@matroska.org>
Message-ID: <3E89CB06.8020600@club-internet.fr>


Christian HJ Wiesner wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
[snip annoying announce]
> 
> Christian
> http://www.matroska.org
	
	so, now, stop bother us with closed source stuffs.

thanks.
-- 
73's de Daniel, F1RMB.

              -=- Daniel Caujolle-Bert -=- segfault at club-internet.fr -=-
                         -=- http://naboo.homelinux.org -=-

http://www.matroska.org


From segfault at club-internet.fr  Tue Apr  1 19:23:18 2003
From: segfault at club-internet.fr (Daniel Caujolle-Bert)
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 19:23:18 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: [xine-user] matroska container sold to IBM
In-Reply-To: <3E89EFA7.9040003@matroska.org>
References: <3E89EFA7.9040003@matroska.org>
Message-ID: <3E89CB06.8020600@club-internet.fr>


Christian HJ Wiesner wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
[snip annoying announce]
> 
> Christian
> http://www.matroska.org
	
	so, now, stop bother us with closed source stuffs.

thanks.
-- 
73's de Daniel, F1RMB.

              -=- Daniel Caujolle-Bert -=- segfault at club-internet.fr -=-
                         -=- http://naboo.homelinux.org -=-



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From chris at matroska.org  Tue Apr  1 21:59:35 2003
From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner)
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 21:59:35 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] [xine-user] matroska container sold to IBM
Message-ID: <3E89EFA7.9040003@matroska.org>



Hi all,

i have some great news to spread today, and i am indeed extremely happy 
that i have the honour of doing so :

The matroska project, including all source code and the main 
specification, by signed contract dated 31st March 2003, was sold to the 
International Bussiness Machine Corporation ( IBM ), New Orchard Road, 
Armonk, NY 10504, USA. . My thanks goes to Dan 'Metaboy' Marlin from the 
Corecodec team for making the initial contact, Dan, without you this 
would have not been possible.

IBM will convert the matroska project and all libraries into a closed 
source format, but make the binaries of the library publically available 
for non-commercial usage, together with an API to be able to read/write 
matroska files from all applications on different OSes. An  arrangement 
was made with all active developers to make it possible to allow a 
changing of the existing GPL/QPL dual licensing system.

After months of hard negotiations there can be no doubt that one of the 
first commercial license takers of matroska will be the Matsushita 
Corporation, Tokyo, Japan, chosing matroska as their main container 
format for an upcoming proprietary blue laser DVD standard to be 
released by Panasonic and some of their licensees on the new standard, 
in an attempt to avoid the domination of the Windows Media Video 9 (TM) 
standard from Micorosoft (R)  for next generations HDTV video. Panasonic 
already announced they will use a wavelet based video codec called WARP, 
created by the IBM video compression department around the well known 
codec expert Mr. Toby Hudon ( performing wavelet on 512 consecutive 
frames, and on every frame itself ), and to use the musepack audio 
compression format ( MPC ) for audio.

I sincerely hope that all of you will see the big advantage for the 
opensource audio and video community in undertaking this step, as from 
now on there will be one new standard a/v container, in possession of 
one of the biggest computer companies of the world, but fully available 
for the community.

Best regards from Hawaii

Christian
http://www.matroska.org





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http://www.matroska.org


From melanson at pcisys.net  Tue Apr  1 22:05:19 2003
From: melanson at pcisys.net (Mike Melanson)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 13:05:19 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: [xine-user] matroska container sold to IBM
In-Reply-To: <3E89EFA7.9040003@matroska.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.05.10304011303480.29814-100000@babu.pcisys.net>


On Tue, 1 Apr 2003, Christian HJ Wiesner wrote:
        ^^^^^

> created by the IBM video compression department around the well known 
> codec expert Mr. Toby Hudon ( performing wavelet on 512 consecutive 
> frames, and on every frame itself ), and to use the musepack audio 

	Hmm, your April Fool's joke had me up through the part about
Hudon's wavelet codec.

--
	-Mike Melanson

http://www.matroska.org


From melanson at pcisys.net  Tue Apr  1 22:05:19 2003
From: melanson at pcisys.net (Mike Melanson)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 13:05:19 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: [xine-user] matroska container sold to IBM
In-Reply-To: <3E89EFA7.9040003@matroska.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.05.10304011303480.29814-100000@babu.pcisys.net>


On Tue, 1 Apr 2003, Christian HJ Wiesner wrote:
        ^^^^^

> created by the IBM video compression department around the well known 
> codec expert Mr. Toby Hudon ( performing wavelet on 512 consecutive 
> frames, and on every frame itself ), and to use the musepack audio 

	Hmm, your April Fool's joke had me up through the part about
Hudon's wavelet codec.

--
	-Mike Melanson



-------------------------------------------------------
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Dedicated Hosting for just $79/mo with 500 GB of bandwidth! 
No other company gives more support or power for your dedicated server
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https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xine-user
http://www.matroska.org


From steve.lhomme at free.fr  Fri Apr  4 10:03:12 2003
From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme)
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 10:03:12 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [matroska-devel] CVS Move
Message-ID: <1049443392.3e8d3c40e8ff6@imp.free.fr>


It's been done yesterday but I only have time to inform you now.

I've finally moved the CVS of Matroska on cvs.corecorec.org due to repeated
technical problems on SourceForge. So this is now the one and only official CVS.
The one on SF will not be updated (by me).

The CoreCodec system works exactly the same as on SourceForge so you probably
won't have any problem for the switch.

The current CVS contains the changes I made during the last days including some
fixes after the libebml/libmatroska split. I also removed the need for the
WRITE_EVEN_UNSET_DATA flag. That means that if you add an EBML tag and you don't
initialise the data you'll get an assert. That's to make sure there is no buggy
EBML/Matroska files floating. So be carefull when you write your (writing)
applications.

The matroska-cvs ML doesn't seem to work yet even though syncmail seems to be
called and executed properly. Maybe Cytoplas could have a look an what is wrong
when the email is sent ?
http://www.matroska.org


From steve.lhomme at free.fr  Fri Apr  4 10:32:05 2003
From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme)
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 10:32:05 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: CVS Move
In-Reply-To: <1049443392.3e8d3c40e8ff6@imp.free.fr>
References: <1049443392.3e8d3c40e8ff6@imp.free.fr>
Message-ID: <1049445125.3e8d43053e449@imp.free.fr>


Oh, and please make sure mpa2mka is up to date. I'm not sure I add a good
version on my HD.

Same as for the DirectShow parser.
http://www.matroska.org


From spyder482 at yahoo.com  Tue Apr  8 04:40:36 2003
From: spyder482 at yahoo.com (John Cannon)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 21:40:36 -0500
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: CVS Move
References: <1049443392.3e8d3c40e8ff6@imp.free.fr> <1049445125.3e8d43053e449@imp.free.fr>
Message-ID: <b6tcnt$hs5$1@main.gmane.org>

I think jcsston updated it. :P

Test post to old topic for forum.

Spyder



http://www.matroska.org


From amitlimaye at gmx.co.uk  Fri Apr  4 11:02:51 2003
From: amitlimaye at gmx.co.uk (amit limaye)
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 11:02:51 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: [matroska-devel] Compilation Problems for LibMatroska
Message-ID: <26288.1049446971@www41.gmx.net>


Hello
      i tried compiling the libmatroska source code which i downloaded from
the sourceforge page
it gives me errors while compiling Ebmlstring.
     To get it compile i has to change this line in the Makefile 
CXXFLAGS=-g -DDEBUG -Wall -Wno-unknown-pragmas $(GCC2)
-DWRITE_EVEN_UNSET_DATA 
to 
CXXFLAGS=-g -DDEBUG -Wall -Wno-unknown-pragmas -DGCC2
-DWRITE_EVEN_UNSET_DATA

i had to force the DGCC2 in the compile options as the shell script failed
to pick up my compiler yo be  a gcc2 kind 
I have gcc 2.96 running on my machine 

after i edited the line the code compiles fine 
i m now searching for what we call the initialization function for the
library so that i can follow the flow of logic can nebody help me here 

Also i visited the Ebml project on sourceforge searched for some docs on the
standard did not find any ?
any  pointers on this or is the code the best place to look for it 

-SIGTERM
amit

-- 
Humanity's First sin was faith;its first virtue doubt

+++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more  http://www.gmx.net +++
Bitte l?cheln! Fotogalerie online mit GMX ohne eigene Homepage!

http://www.matroska.org


From steve.lhomme at free.fr  Fri Apr  4 20:59:43 2003
From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme)
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 21:59:43 +0300
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Compilation Problems for LibMatroska
In-Reply-To: <26288.1049446971@www41.gmx.net>
References: <26288.1049446971@www41.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <3E8DD61F.6070302@free.fr>


amit limaye wrote:
> Hello
>       i tried compiling the libmatroska source code which i downloaded from
> the sourceforge page
> it gives me errors while compiling Ebmlstring.
>      To get it compile i has to change this line in the Makefile 
> CXXFLAGS=-g -DDEBUG -Wall -Wno-unknown-pragmas $(GCC2)
> -DWRITE_EVEN_UNSET_DATA 
> to 
> CXXFLAGS=-g -DDEBUG -Wall -Wno-unknown-pragmas -DGCC2
> -DWRITE_EVEN_UNSET_DATA
> 
> i had to force the DGCC2 in the compile options as the shell script failed
> to pick up my compiler yo be  a gcc2 kind 
> I have gcc 2.96 running on my machine 

Yeah, you may have a look at the GCC version detection and add the case 
of GCC 2.96. It don't think it should be too hard.

> after i edited the line the code compiles fine 
> i m now searching for what we call the initialization function for the
> library so that i can follow the flow of logic can nebody help me here 

The best is to look at test6.cpp (writing) and test8.cpp (reading). It's 
not commented a lot. But that's really the way to use the library to 
read/write the data.

> Also i visited the Ebml project on sourceforge searched for some docs on the
> standard did not find any ?
> any  pointers on this or is the code the best place to look for it 

Well, the EBML site is as a bit less empty than the EBML part in the 
matroska specs. But I don't feel like writing more about EBML right now. 
If you have any questions you can ask them here or on IRC (#matroska on 
irc.corecodec.org).

cya

http://www.matroska.org


From Paul at msn.com  Sat Apr  5 19:24:11 2003
From: Paul at msn.com (Pamel)
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 11:24:11 -0600
Subject: [matroska-devel] Matroska Tags
Message-ID: <b6n3em$ln0$1@main.gmane.org>

In our quest to compile a comprehensive list of current tags available today
for different formats, here is the list of websites that we are using so
far:

http://www.id3.org/id3v2.4.0-frames.txt
http://www.id3.org/id3v2-00.txt
http://www.id3.org/id3v2.3.0.txt
http://www.xiph.org/ogg/vorbis/doc/v-comment.html
http://getid3.sourceforge.net/
http://kibus1.narod.ru/sof/abcavi/infotags.htm
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/wmform/htm/id3tagsupport.asp
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/storage/hh/storage/k306_1gaa.asp
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/wmplay/mmp_sdk/mediafileattributes.a
sp
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/wmform/htm/attributelist.asp

Some things to note about the Microsoft sites is that the documents have a
lot of errors.  For instance, the list of ID3v2.4 tags that the WMP9
attributes map to use some tags that don't exist anymore.  The list of
attributes that can be stored in a file for WMP9 isn't complete.

We basically want to map every ID3v2.4 tag to a Matroska tag.  Almost all
Vorbis, APE, and FLAC tags should easily map to one of those ID3 tags.  (I
think the Vorbis "LOCATION" tag is the only one that doesn't)  Most of the
important WMP9 tags (known as 'Attributes') map to ID3 tags also.  There are
a few other ones in there (like "Location") that we will create Matroska
tags for.  We also want to try to make sure that the apropriate tags can be
read with the WMP9 "Advanced Tag Editor".

We will be using most of the mapped ID3 tags for video also as most of the
fields carry relevant information.

The plan so far for layout is to use the current MultiEntity element  for
every person/place/object.  We will simply define many more values for the
EntityFunction element.  This will allow every
Album/Artist/Performer/Director/Location/etc. to have its own Name, URL,
Email, SortBy, Comments, and whatever else needs to be added.  And all of
this can be done without significantly increasing the number of support
elements.

Another MultiEntity-type element can be used for larger text documents such
as unsynched lyrics, comments, summary, history, etc.  Another
MultiEntity-type element might be used for common data types such as dates.

All other data types that aren't duplicated are going to need their own
individual ID's.  This WILL significantly increase the number of required
elements to fully support all tags.  But we will minimize this as much as
possible.

Formats that we are trying to support tags for:
MP3
Vorbis
Monkey's Audio
CD-Text
AVI
Windows Media Player 9

Please mention any other formats that should be looked at.


Pamel



http://www.matroska.org


From Paul at msn.com  Tue Apr  8 17:14:53 2003
From: Paul at msn.com (Pamel)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 10:14:53 -0500
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Matroska Tags
References: <b6n3em$ln0$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <b6up0d$g35$1@main.gmane.org>

Here is an initial list of all of the items that are defined in the
EntityFunction element under MultiEntity.  For the names, I used the ID3 and
Extended RIFF Info.

Album/Movie/Show title
Composer
Encoded by
Ripped by
Lyricist/Text writer
Involved people list
Content group description
Title/songname/content description
Musician credits list
Original album/movie/show title
Original filename
Original lyricist(s)/text writer(s)
Original artist(s)/performer(s)
File owner/licensee
Lead performer(s)/Soloist(s)
Band/orchestra/accompaniment
Conductor/performer refinement
Interpreted, remixed, or otherwise modified by
Software/Hardware and settings used for encoding
Official Internet radio station
Record Location
Director
Product
Produced by
Cinematographer
Production Designer
Edited by
Costume Designer
Production Studio
Distributed by
Commissioned by
Engineer

Can anyone point out some others?  Remember that each of these items will
have a space for name, URL, email, comments, and sort order.  Are there any
other elements that should be defined under MultiEntity other than those
five items?


Pamel



http://www.matroska.org


From steve.lhomme at free.fr  Tue Apr  8 17:38:40 2003
From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme)
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 17:38:40 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Matroska Tags
In-Reply-To: <b6up0d$g35$1@main.gmane.org>
References: <b6n3em$ln0$1@main.gmane.org> <b6up0d$g35$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <1049816320.3e92ed00359b4@imp.free.fr>


En r?ponse ? Pamel <Paul at msn.com>:

> Here is an initial list of all of the items that are defined in the
> EntityFunction element under MultiEntity.  For the names, I used the ID3
> and Extended RIFF Info.

You may also have a look at the tags of the RIFF Broadcast (using WAV) info.
Dunno if it's the same as Extended RIFF Info

> Encoded by
> Ripped by

Whats is the difference ?

> Involved people list

Is that necessary ?
Is this Track dependant BTW (all these tags) ? Because a person who worked made
the music of the video is not the same author as the one of the video.

> Content group description

What is that ?

> Original album/movie/show title
> Album/Movie/Show title

Difference ?

> Original filename

That's not part of this meta data, it's elsewhere in matroska.

> Original lyricist(s)/text writer(s)
> Original artist(s)/performer(s)

You mean in the case of a cover ? Does it need to be defined so formally ?

> Lead performer(s)/Soloist(s)
> Band/orchestra/accompaniment
> Conductor/performer refinement

Colour of the shirt ? Temparature of the room ?

> Software/Hardware and settings used for encoding

The format to define the encoding paramaters is not portable on any OS. I don't
think we need that tag. This is the kind of tag only usefull for 1 application
understanding it. It doesn't need to be in the global format.

> Official Internet radio station

???

> Record Location

In a room ??? Are you trying to put a whole database in one file ?

> Product

What is that ?

> Cinematographer

Difference with the Director ?

> Production Designer

What is that ?

> Costume Designer

Doh ! Yeah a whole database :'(

> Production Studio
> Distributed by
> Commissioned by
> Engineer

Mmmm. I will *never* use most of them, but why not...
http://www.matroska.org


From Paul at msn.com  Wed Apr  9 04:57:39 2003
From: Paul at msn.com (Pamel)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 21:57:39 -0500
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Matroska Tags
References: <b6n3em$ln0$1@main.gmane.org> <b6up0d$g35$1@main.gmane.org> <1049816320.3e92ed00359b4@imp.free.fr>
Message-ID: <b70261$7ti$1@main.gmane.org>

"Steve Lhomme" <steve.lhomme at free.fr> wrote
>
> En r?ponse   Pamel <Paul at msn.com>:
>
> You may also have a look at the tags of the RIFF Broadcast (using WAV)
info.
> Dunno if it's the same as Extended RIFF Info

It is the same, but with more fields.  I got the list from here:
http://kibus1.narod.ru/sof/abcavi/infotags.htm

> > Encoded by
> > Ripped by
>
> Whats is the difference ?

I wondered about that myself.  They are both listed in the Extended RIFF
Info.  Technicaly, I THINK that "Ripped by" would be the one that
extracts/obtains the original, and "Encoded by" would be the one that
encoded that to whatever it is now.  But I can't imagine how often it would
be different.

> > Involved people list
>
> Is that necessary ?
> Is this Track dependant BTW (all these tags) ? Because a person who worked
made
> the music of the video is not the same author as the one of the video.

Again, it was in the "Extended RIFF Info" list.  I actually wasn't sure what
it was for, but assumed that someone else would know.

How do you want to have the information broken up?  We could store by track
and/or chapter.  What do you think would be best?

> > Content group description
>
> What is that ?

That was a mistake. That doesn't need to be a MultiEntity.  That is one of
the ID3 tags.  From ID3.org:

"The 'Content group description' frame is used if the sound belongs to a
larger category of sounds/music. For example, classical music is often
sorted in different musical sections (e.g. "Piano Concerto", "Weather -
Hurricane")."


> > Original album/movie/show title
> > Album/Movie/Show title
>
> Difference ?

These are ID3 tags.  Original is only used to identify the original
recording name in the case of a remix, or a re-release under a different
name.

> > Original filename
>
> That's not part of this meta data, it's elsewhere in matroska.

That was another mistake.

> > Original lyricist(s)/text writer(s)
> > Original artist(s)/performer(s)
>
> You mean in the case of a cover ? Does it need to be defined so formally ?

These are both ID3 tags.  These are also for the case of a remix or
rerelease.  Original lyricist would be the original song writer, or script
writer.  Original artists would be the person that actually sang/acted for
the original recording.  Artist it this case is not one that draws.

> > Lead performer(s)/Soloist(s)
> > Band/orchestra/accompaniment
> > Conductor/performer refinement
>
> Colour of the shirt ? Temparature of the room ?

Hey, its not my cup of tea, but apparently there was a large enough audience
wanting it to warrant creating ID3 tags for all of these.

> > Software/Hardware and settings used for encoding
>
> The format to define the encoding paramaters is not portable on any OS. I
don't
> think we need that tag. This is the kind of tag only usefull for 1
application
> understanding it. It doesn't need to be in the global format.

This is another ID3 tag.  It isn't meant to be used to duplicate an
encoding, just to get an idea of the settings/encoder used.  From ID3.org:

"The 'Software/Hardware and settings used for encoding' frame includes the
used audio encoder and its settings when the file was encoded. Hardware
refers to hardware encoders, not the computer on which a program was run."

> > Official Internet radio station
>
> ???

Another ID3 tag.

> > Record Location
>
> In a room ??? Are you trying to put a whole database in one file ?

Ironically, ID3 was really the only tag system to not have a "Location" tag.
I think it would be used for the location where something was filmed, rather
than an audio recording.  (though it could be used for that too)  I'm
thinking it would probably just be used to specify the country.

> > Product
>
> What is that ?

Thats a RIFF tag. "Product. Specifies the name of the title the file was
originally intended for, such as "Encyclopedia of Pacific Northwest
Geography.""

> > Cinematographer
>
> Difference with the Director ?

I THINK that a Cinematographer is focused solely on the camera shots/angles,
whereas the director is in charge of everything (telling actors how to act
the scene and such)

> > Production Designer
>
> What is that ?

I don't really know.  If I was a theater major I would tell you.

> > Costume Designer
>
> Doh ! Yeah a whole database :'(
>
> > Production Studio
> > Distributed by
> > Commissioned by
> > Engineer
>
> Mmmm. I will *never* use most of them, but why not...

I will never use most of them either, but there are two reasons to include
them.

1.  Existing tags already support them, so to fully support existing
framework, we need them too.

2.  People will want to use them, so they should be there when they do.  I
had a friend that works in theater production and is really into the
makeup/costume side of things.  Anytime she saw a good movie she would want
to know who did the costumes, and would bore us to death talking about them.
I wouldn't care to ever put anything in that tag, but I know she would.

Remember that we are planning ahead to make this a painless as possible with
as few updates to the specs as possible.  We don't need to include
EVERYTHING, but we should at least support what already exists.  I didn't
see a tag for Head Gaffer, but I am also not planning on adding it.

BTW, I really can't see a good reason to have both an "Encoded by" and a
"Ripped by" element.  Also, could someone fill in what "Involved people
list" is supposed to be used for?


Pamel



http://www.matroska.org


From steve.lhomme at free.fr  Wed Apr  9 09:50:07 2003
From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 09:50:07 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Matroska Tags
In-Reply-To: <b70261$7ti$1@main.gmane.org>
References: <b6n3em$ln0$1@main.gmane.org> <b6up0d$g35$1@main.gmane.org> <1049816320.3e92ed00359b4@imp.free.fr> <b70261$7ti$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <1049874607.3e93d0af8a5e2@imp.free.fr>


En r?ponse ? Pamel <Paul at msn.com>:

> > Mmmm. I will *never* use most of them, but why not...
> 
> I will never use most of them either, but there are two reasons to
> include
> them.
> 
> 1.  Existing tags already support them, so to fully support existing
> framework, we need them too.

Well, not exactly. Suppose we add a tag for the colour of the shirt of the chick
next to the singer (only the one on the left). It is part of the standard. So
whoever wants to create a new exhaustive tagging system will have to support it.
Just because a stupid guy added it once. And you will end up with that shit for
decades...

I think we really need to keep the one people will likely read & write. For the
rest it is usefull only for file exchange between entertainment companies. Maybe
one day we'll have all these infos in an audio/video standard format (CD/DVD
replacement) but the forthcoming ones DVD-A/SACD don't include most of these infos.

So I propose to strip the uncessary ones like the original track it is a cover
of. (because there are covers mixing more than one song and unless you want a
whole database in your file noone will ever care to read that information).
 
> 2.  People will want to use them, so they should be there when they do. 
> I
> had a friend that works in theater production and is really into the
> makeup/costume side of things.  Anytime she saw a good movie she would
> want
> to know who did the costumes, and would bore us to death talking about
> them.
> I wouldn't care to ever put anything in that tag, but I know she
> would.

But is this the role of the file for playback to store that ?
What about the guy who makes coffee for movie actors... He would like to have
his name and his friends in there too !

Like for the location, it might change at every scene. Do you give the
coordinate on earth, the date it was recorded (already included in the file
otherwise it's for the whole montage), the weather condition, the lens used, etc
? Anybody someday would like to know that. Maybe the zodiacal sign of the
director too ?

At one point we have to stop. Maybe that's where a more generic system comes.
With "TAG_NAME" = "TAG_VALUE". Anyone can add whatever and we keep a list of
"possible" ones, but not endorsed as standard.
 
> BTW, I really can't see a good reason to have both an "Encoded by" and
> a
> "Ripped by" element.  Also, could someone fill in what "Involved
> people list" is supposed to be used for?

That's the kind of stupid tags that should be removed :)
http://www.matroska.org


From Paul at msn.com  Thu Apr 10 06:52:22 2003
From: Paul at msn.com (Pamel)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 23:52:22 -0500
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Matroska Tags
References: <b6n3em$ln0$1@main.gmane.org> <b6up0d$g35$1@main.gmane.org> <1049816320.3e92ed00359b4@imp.free.fr> <b70261$7ti$1@main.gmane.org> <1049874607.3e93d0af8a5e2@imp.free.fr>
Message-ID: <b72t8q$mdu$1@main.gmane.org>

"Steve Lhomme" <steve.lhomme at free.fr> wrote
> Suppose we add a tag for the colour of the shirt of the chick
> next to the singer (only the one on the left). It is part of the standard.
So
> whoever wants to create a new exhaustive tagging system will have to
support it.

Anyone that creates a new exhautive tagging system will already have to
support all of these tags because they already exist.  The point is to
support current tagging systems.  I haven't created a single tag, all I have
done is pull together existing formats and sort out the duplicates.  The
only tags that I am removing are ones that aren't valid to Matroska, like
the INDEX tag in ID3, or the Morgan Multimedia Language tags.

> So I propose to strip the uncessary ones....

I'm not trying to decide which tags aren't useful, I'm just trying ensure
that information tags in other formats are supported.  I already have an
excel spreadsheet that is 28x143.  (Thats 143 total tag types)  32 of those
are already different types of EntityName, and several more fall under other
items for MultiEntity.  A couple just go under already existing Matroska
tags like the picture attachment in ID3 would just be an attachment.  And
there are many marked N/A as they are specific to the format they come from.

> At one point we have to stop. Maybe that's where a more generic system
comes.
> With "TAG_NAME" = "TAG_VALUE". Anyone can add whatever and we keep a list
of
> "possible" ones, but not endorsed as standard.

*shudder*  Thats what Ogg uses.  Just look at the lack of compatability that
created.  The few people that try to use it don't even follow the
recommendations OR the specs.  I'll just leave in the "Involved people list"
tag from ID3 in the EntityName element.  People should be able to use that
and use the Comments element under the MultiEntity to describe the obscure
job/shirt color of the person named.


Pamel



http://www.matroska.org


From steve.lhomme at free.fr  Thu Apr 10 09:34:46 2003
From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 09:34:46 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Matroska Tags
In-Reply-To: <b72t8q$mdu$1@main.gmane.org>
References: <b6n3em$ln0$1@main.gmane.org> <b6up0d$g35$1@main.gmane.org> <1049816320.3e92ed00359b4@imp.free.fr> <b70261$7ti$1@main.gmane.org> <1049874607.3e93d0af8a5e2@imp.free.fr> <b72t8q$mdu$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <1049960086.3e951e96e1da7@imp.free.fr>


En r?ponse ? Pamel <Paul at msn.com>:

> > So I propose to strip the uncessary ones....
> 
> I'm not trying to decide which tags aren't useful, I'm just trying
> ensure
> that information tags in other formats are supported.  I already have

I know. But what I was trying to explain is that maybe some stupid guys already
put a lot of garbage tag saying "you never know, someone on planet mars might
use it someday !". That's why I think some things that we think are unecessary
should not be endorsed.

> > At one point we have to stop. Maybe that's where a more generic
> system
> comes.
> > With "TAG_NAME" = "TAG_VALUE". Anyone can add whatever and we keep a
> list
> of
> > "possible" ones, but not endorsed as standard.
> 
> *shudder*  Thats what Ogg uses.  Just look at the lack of compatability
> that
> created.  The few people that try to use it don't even follow the

I know this is also want I wanted to avoid as a "general" system. These tags are
not endorsed as part of the specs. But allow a kind of "easy" compatibility.
They should mostly be used for application specific tags (like a database stored
in matroska ;).
http://www.matroska.org


From theo_brendel at hotmail.com  Wed Apr  9 09:56:13 2003
From: theo_brendel at hotmail.com (Steven Mingam)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 09:56:13 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Matroska Tags
References: <b6n3em$ln0$1@main.gmane.org> <b6up0d$g35$1@main.gmane.org> <1049816320.3e92ed00359b4@imp.free.fr> <b70261$7ti$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <b70jp6$3gg$1@main.gmane.org>

For the "Encoded/Ripped" difference, it's happen often on the "scene"
when a l33t guy find an album in ape/320kbits/whatever(yeah, even 128 cbr)
and
reencode it for his l33t team with a packaging, etc etc ...

So they use this kind of tags, because it's _very_ important to them to know
who do what exactly.


bill_baroud




"Pamel" <Paul at msn.com> a ?crit dans le message news:
b70261$7ti$1 at main.gmane.org...
> "Steve Lhomme" <steve.lhomme at free.fr> wrote
> >
> > En r?ponse   Pamel <Paul at msn.com>:
> >
> > You may also have a look at the tags of the RIFF Broadcast (using WAV)
> info.
> > Dunno if it's the same as Extended RIFF Info
>
> It is the same, but with more fields.  I got the list from here:
> http://kibus1.narod.ru/sof/abcavi/infotags.htm
>
> > > Encoded by
> > > Ripped by
> >
> > Whats is the difference ?
>
> I wondered about that myself.  They are both listed in the Extended RIFF
> Info.  Technicaly, I THINK that "Ripped by" would be the one that
> extracts/obtains the original, and "Encoded by" would be the one that
> encoded that to whatever it is now.  But I can't imagine how often it
would
> be different.
>
> > > Involved people list
> >
> > Is that necessary ?
> > Is this Track dependant BTW (all these tags) ? Because a person who
worked
> made
> > the music of the video is not the same author as the one of the video.
>
> Again, it was in the "Extended RIFF Info" list.  I actually wasn't sure
what
> it was for, but assumed that someone else would know.
>
> How do you want to have the information broken up?  We could store by
track
> and/or chapter.  What do you think would be best?
>
> > > Content group description
> >
> > What is that ?
>
> That was a mistake. That doesn't need to be a MultiEntity.  That is one of
> the ID3 tags.  From ID3.org:
>
> "The 'Content group description' frame is used if the sound belongs to a
> larger category of sounds/music. For example, classical music is often
> sorted in different musical sections (e.g. "Piano Concerto", "Weather -
> Hurricane")."
>
>
> > > Original album/movie/show title
> > > Album/Movie/Show title
> >
> > Difference ?
>
> These are ID3 tags.  Original is only used to identify the original
> recording name in the case of a remix, or a re-release under a different
> name.
>
> > > Original filename
> >
> > That's not part of this meta data, it's elsewhere in matroska.
>
> That was another mistake.
>
> > > Original lyricist(s)/text writer(s)
> > > Original artist(s)/performer(s)
> >
> > You mean in the case of a cover ? Does it need to be defined so formally
?
>
> These are both ID3 tags.  These are also for the case of a remix or
> rerelease.  Original lyricist would be the original song writer, or script
> writer.  Original artists would be the person that actually sang/acted for
> the original recording.  Artist it this case is not one that draws.
>
> > > Lead performer(s)/Soloist(s)
> > > Band/orchestra/accompaniment
> > > Conductor/performer refinement
> >
> > Colour of the shirt ? Temparature of the room ?
>
> Hey, its not my cup of tea, but apparently there was a large enough
audience
> wanting it to warrant creating ID3 tags for all of these.
>
> > > Software/Hardware and settings used for encoding
> >
> > The format to define the encoding paramaters is not portable on any OS.
I
> don't
> > think we need that tag. This is the kind of tag only usefull for 1
> application
> > understanding it. It doesn't need to be in the global format.
>
> This is another ID3 tag.  It isn't meant to be used to duplicate an
> encoding, just to get an idea of the settings/encoder used.  From ID3.org:
>
> "The 'Software/Hardware and settings used for encoding' frame includes the
> used audio encoder and its settings when the file was encoded. Hardware
> refers to hardware encoders, not the computer on which a program was run."
>
> > > Official Internet radio station
> >
> > ???
>
> Another ID3 tag.
>
> > > Record Location
> >
> > In a room ??? Are you trying to put a whole database in one file ?
>
> Ironically, ID3 was really the only tag system to not have a "Location"
tag.
> I think it would be used for the location where something was filmed,
rather
> than an audio recording.  (though it could be used for that too)  I'm
> thinking it would probably just be used to specify the country.
>
> > > Product
> >
> > What is that ?
>
> Thats a RIFF tag. "Product. Specifies the name of the title the file was
> originally intended for, such as "Encyclopedia of Pacific Northwest
> Geography.""
>
> > > Cinematographer
> >
> > Difference with the Director ?
>
> I THINK that a Cinematographer is focused solely on the camera
shots/angles,
> whereas the director is in charge of everything (telling actors how to act
> the scene and such)
>
> > > Production Designer
> >
> > What is that ?
>
> I don't really know.  If I was a theater major I would tell you.
>
> > > Costume Designer
> >
> > Doh ! Yeah a whole database :'(
> >
> > > Production Studio
> > > Distributed by
> > > Commissioned by
> > > Engineer
> >
> > Mmmm. I will *never* use most of them, but why not...
>
> I will never use most of them either, but there are two reasons to include
> them.
>
> 1.  Existing tags already support them, so to fully support existing
> framework, we need them too.
>
> 2.  People will want to use them, so they should be there when they do.  I
> had a friend that works in theater production and is really into the
> makeup/costume side of things.  Anytime she saw a good movie she would
want
> to know who did the costumes, and would bore us to death talking about
them.
> I wouldn't care to ever put anything in that tag, but I know she would.
>
> Remember that we are planning ahead to make this a painless as possible
with
> as few updates to the specs as possible.  We don't need to include
> EVERYTHING, but we should at least support what already exists.  I didn't
> see a tag for Head Gaffer, but I am also not planning on adding it.
>
> BTW, I really can't see a good reason to have both an "Encoded by" and a
> "Ripped by" element.  Also, could someone fill in what "Involved people
> list" is supposed to be used for?
>
>
> Pamel
>
>
>
> http://www.matroska.org
>



http://www.matroska.org


From Paul at msn.com  Mon Apr 14 10:27:30 2003
From: Paul at msn.com (Pamel)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 03:27:30 -0500
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Matroska Tags
References: <b6n3em$ln0$1@main.gmane.org> <b6up0d$g35$1@main.gmane.org> <1049816320.3e92ed00359b4@imp.free.fr>
Message-ID: <b7drb3$dpb$1@main.gmane.org>

Steve,

I just looked at the tracker for the Tags.  I've got the tags for ID3 and
APE covered.  I am just unsure about Traktor and Idem.  I haven't installed
the Traktor demo yet, but from what I can see, it stores its information now
in ID3 tags.  If it does, then we already have it covered.  If not, I need
to find a list of those tags.

I was unable to find any useful information about Idem for iTunes.  It was
all in French!!  I searched Google for Idem and iTunes, and all of the sites
returned were in French.  If you could give me the English equivalent for
Idem, or explain to me what/how it works then I will make sure its included.


Pamel



http://www.matroska.org


From Paul at msn.com  Tue Apr 15 05:03:12 2003
From: Paul at msn.com (Pamel)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:03:12 -0500
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Matroska Tags
References: <b6n3em$ln0$1@main.gmane.org> <b6up0d$g35$1@main.gmane.org> <1049816320.3e92ed00359b4@imp.free.fr> <b7drb3$dpb$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <b7fsol$1ha$1@main.gmane.org>

Steve wrote:
[16:09] <robUx4> BTW, if you see Pamel_The_Worker_Lurker, tell him I don't
know any program called "Idem"
[16:09] <robUx4> and explain him what Idem means ;)


I got it from the tracker that you assigned me to.  To quote the summary:

Summary:
ID3 tags & APE tags
Add as much ID3 and APE audio tags to the matroska format.
Also add the informations saved by Traktor in a similar
or better way. Idem for the rating of iTunes.

What is "Idem for the rating of iTunes"?  Could you describe what it does?
Is it anything like the Popularimeter in ID3?  To quote ID3.org:

4.17.   Popularimeter
The purpose of this frame is to specify how good an audio file is.  Many
interesting applications could be found to this frame such as a playlist
that features better audio files more often than others or it could be used
to profile a person's taste and find other 'good' files by comparing
people's profiles. The frame contains the email address to the user, one
rating byte and a four byte play counter, intended to be increased with one
for every time the file is played. The email is a terminated string. The
rating is 1-255 where 1 is worst and 255 is best. 0 is unknown. If no
personal counter is wanted it may be omitted. When the counter reaches all
one's, one byte is inserted in front of the counter thus making the counter
eight bits bigger in the same away as the play counter ("PCNT"). There may
be more than one "POPM" frame in each tag, but only one with the same email
address.


Pamel




http://www.matroska.org


From steve.lhomme at free.fr  Tue Apr 15 14:21:53 2003
From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 14:21:53 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Matroska Tags
In-Reply-To: <b7fsol$1ha$1@main.gmane.org>
References: <b6n3em$ln0$1@main.gmane.org> <b6up0d$g35$1@main.gmane.org> <1049816320.3e92ed00359b4@imp.free.fr> <b7drb3$dpb$1@main.gmane.org> <b7fsol$1ha$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <3E9BF961.3020106@free.fr>


Pamel wrote:
> Steve wrote:
> [16:09] <robUx4> BTW, if you see Pamel_The_Worker_Lurker, tell him I don't
> know any program called "Idem"
> [16:09] <robUx4> and explain him what Idem means ;)
> 
> 
> I got it from the tracker that you assigned me to.  To quote the summary:
>
> Summary:
> ID3 tags & APE tags
> Add as much ID3 and APE audio tags to the matroska format.
> Also add the informations saved by Traktor in a similar
> or better way. Idem for the rating of iTunes.
> 
> What is "Idem for the rating of iTunes"?  Could you describe what it does?
> Is it anything like the Popularimeter in ID3?  To quote ID3.org:

Yes, it's exactly like the Popularimeter. In iTunes it's from 0 to 5.
Idem means "the same applies to". I think it comes from latin and so 
probably apply to english (like et ceatera, vice versa).

http://www.matroska.org


From suiryc at yahoo.com  Tue Apr 15 22:15:29 2003
From: suiryc at yahoo.com (Cyrius)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 13:15:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [matroska-devel] Bug in lacing fixed
In-Reply-To: <3E9BF961.3020106@free.fr>
Message-ID: <20030415201529.23138.qmail@web12906.mail.yahoo.com>


Hi

I just spotted a bug in the lacing code of
libmatroska.
Here is the culprit : (KaxBlock.cpp, RenderData
function, line 224; this is where frame sizes are
written in the file)

// set the size of each member in the lace
tmpValue = 0xFF;
for (i=0; i<myBuffers.size()-1; i++) {
	uint16 tmpSize = myBuffers[i]->Size();
	while (tmpSize >= 0xFF) {
		output.writeFully(&tmpValue, 1);
		Size++;
		tmpSize -= 0xFF;
	}
	tmpValue = tmpSize;
	output.writeFully(&tmpValue, 1);
	Size++;
}

The problem : tmpValue should be set to 0xFF inside
the for loop.
I corrected that and commited the fix.

As far as I could see the reading part of the code works.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo
http://search.yahoo.com
http://www.matroska.org


From chris at matroska.org  Thu Apr 10 10:02:43 2003
From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 10:02:43 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Matroska Tags
In-Reply-To: <b6up0d$g35$1@main.gmane.org>
References: <b6n3em$ln0$1@main.gmane.org> <b6up0d$g35$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <3E952523.6010902@matroska.org>


Pamel,

any chance we could upload your Excel sheet with all the tags to some of 
our webspace ? I'd like to point a few people to it who are not 
subscribed to this list. Thanks

Christian


Pamel wrote:

>Here is an initial list of all of the items that are defined in the
>EntityFunction element under MultiEntity.  For the names, I used the ID3 and
>Extended RIFF Info.
>
>Album/Movie/Show title
>Composer
>Encoded by
>Ripped by
>Lyricist/Text writer
>Involved people list
>Content group description
>Title/songname/content description
>Musician credits list
>Original album/movie/show title
>Original filename
>Original lyricist(s)/text writer(s)
>Original artist(s)/performer(s)
>File owner/licensee
>Lead performer(s)/Soloist(s)
>Band/orchestra/accompaniment
>Conductor/performer refinement
>Interpreted, remixed, or otherwise modified by
>Software/Hardware and settings used for encoding
>Official Internet radio station
>Record Location
>Director
>Product
>Produced by
>Cinematographer
>Production Designer
>Edited by
>Costume Designer
>Production Studio
>Distributed by
>Commissioned by
>Engineer
>
>Can anyone point out some others?  Remember that each of these items will
>have a space for name, URL, email, comments, and sort order.  Are there any
>other elements that should be defined under MultiEntity other than those
>five items?
>
>
>Pamel
>
>
>
>http://www.matroska.org
>
>  
>


http://www.matroska.org


From steve.lhomme at free.fr  Thu Apr 10 11:27:33 2003
From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:27:33 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Matroska Tags
In-Reply-To: <3E952523.6010902@matroska.org>
References: <b6n3em$ln0$1@main.gmane.org> <b6up0d$g35$1@main.gmane.org> <3E952523.6010902@matroska.org>
Message-ID: <1049966853.3e9539056eaad@imp.free.fr>


En r?ponse ? Christian HJ Wiesner <chris at matroska.org>:

> >Here is an initial list of all of the items that are defined in the
> >EntityFunction element under MultiEntity.  For the names, I used the
> ID3 and
> >Extended RIFF Info.

BTW, what do you call MultiEntity ?

"<Pamel> Steve shouldn't be so picky about the tags.
<Pamel> He didn't want to do them, so he should accept whats coming. :p"

I know. That's part of the game :)
Also I *have* to be picky because I'm trying to get the format consistant. No to
integrate things that will be a drawback now or in the future (see my previous
email). I agree with most of the tags (now we have to define where and how they
will go).

Also you said that each element could have a name, URL, comment, etc ? So the
idea it to create a matroska specific type (like UInteger, UnicodeString, etc).
That will be used internally by matroska-aware softwares... That is necessary
not to define 3xNumber of elements Matroska IDs. Instead you define an ID for
each of your element and it's defined as binary from an EBML point of view. Then
the binary inside could/should also be in EBML format : [ID][length][data]. Then
you define an internal ID for : URL, Name, Comment, UInteger value, etc. You
will save space in the file and in the specs :) And become more extensible, more
consistent in the code, etc... That's an object-oriented approach to the problem :D
http://www.matroska.org


From Paul at msn.com  Fri Apr 11 04:57:12 2003
From: Paul at msn.com (Pamel)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 21:57:12 -0500
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Matroska Tags
References: <b6n3em$ln0$1@main.gmane.org> <b6up0d$g35$1@main.gmane.org> <3E952523.6010902@matroska.org> <1049966853.3e9539056eaad@imp.free.fr>
Message-ID: <b75ask$15l$1@main.gmane.org>

"Steve Lhomme" <steve.lhomme at free.fr> wrote
> BTW, what do you call MultiEntity ?

Your MultiEntity element in the specs.

> I agree with most of the tags (now we have to define where and how they
> will go).

I'm currently making up an excel spreadsheet that lists all of the elements
that will need to be created.  There will be a lot (I am guessing <50).  I
think we should make a link to a seperate web page to list all of the tags
with full descriptions.  Some of the descriptions are really vague on the
other specs pages, so it was difficult to tell what they were talking about.

I was thinking about listing most of the elements as UTF-8.  I was also
thinking about storing the URL's as UTF-8 as eventually they are going to
start using non-ascii charaters in DNS entries.  Two articles from slashdot
are here:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/29058.html
http://fr.news.yahoo.com/030201/35/30bn2.html (in french)
http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/02/02/066207&mode=thread&ti
d=95

But this would only be an option if all URL entries in Matroska went to
UTF-8.  Otherwise I obviously have to stick with string.

> Also you said that each element could have a name, URL, comment, etc ? So
the
> idea it to create a matroska specific type (like UInteger, UnicodeString,
etc).
> That will be used internally by matroska-aware softwares... That is
necessary
> not to define 3xNumber of elements Matroska IDs. Instead you define an ID
for
> each of your element and it's defined as binary from an EBML point of
view. Then
> the binary inside could/should also be in EBML format :
[ID][length][data]. Then
> you define an internal ID for : URL, Name, Comment, UInteger value, etc.
You
> will save space in the file and in the specs :) And become more
extensible, more
> consistent in the code, etc... That's an object-oriented approach to the
problem :D

Adding an element to contain EBML'd data?  That sounds like it would just be
adding another layer of abstraction for the data, without adding any
features.  You might as well just have them in the main tree.  Sticking them
together in their own 'thing' would separate them from the main specs.  You
could even branch them off into their own project, ala ID3. I think this
would be bad though, and we all know how much I like having things modular.
Its just asking for more bloat.

I'll do my best to keep the total number of new elements to a minimum, but
don't expect the number of supported tags to drop.


Pamel



http://www.matroska.org


From steve.lhomme at free.fr  Fri Apr 11 10:04:12 2003
From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 10:04:12 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Matroska Tags
In-Reply-To: <b75ask$15l$1@main.gmane.org>
References: <b6n3em$ln0$1@main.gmane.org> <b6up0d$g35$1@main.gmane.org> <3E952523.6010902@matroska.org> <1049966853.3e9539056eaad@imp.free.fr> <b75ask$15l$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <1050048252.3e9676fc8dadb@imp.free.fr>


En r?ponse ? Pamel <Paul at msn.com>:

> "Steve Lhomme" <steve.lhomme at free.fr> wrote
> > BTW, what do you call MultiEntity ?
> 
> Your MultiEntity element in the specs.

Doh ! I totally forgot I made this change.
Actually it looks like a more elegant way than the solution I proposed
yesterday. You just need to specify an EntityFunction Number for each of your
2000 tags and the URL, email, name, etc will follow :)
Let's go for it.
That won't use a more matroska IDs than needed.

> I was thinking about listing most of the elements as UTF-8.  I was
> also
> thinking about storing the URL's as UTF-8 as eventually they are going
> to
> start using non-ascii charaters in DNS entries.  Two articles from
> slashdot
> are here:
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/29058.html
> http://fr.news.yahoo.com/030201/35/30bn2.html (in french)
> http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/02/02/066207&mode=thread&ti
> d=95

That won't happen anytime soon. Even if it does, it will have to be backward
compatible. So don't worry about it.
http://www.matroska.org


From Paul at msn.com  Sun Apr 13 02:06:34 2003
From: Paul at msn.com (Pamel)
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 19:06:34 -0500
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Matroska Tags
References: <b6n3em$ln0$1@main.gmane.org> <b6up0d$g35$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <b7a9k7$j6n$1@main.gmane.org>

I was talking with Jory about where to put the tags and I would like to
share some of the solutions.  The problem is that there can be informational
tags that relate to just a track, just a chapter, multiple tracks/chapters,
or the whole file.  There are also two places to store the tags, in the Info
element, and under the Chapters element.

First, we decided to condense all of this information together in the same
place to avoid duplication.  Then, we create a new Tags sub-element under
the Information element to store all of the tags under.  There can be
multiple Tags sub-elements, each with an identifying element in it to
indicate what Tracks/Chapters/All the tags contained therein belong to.  All
informational (non-technical/unneeded) elements are to be moved here.

Second, because the track numbers can change, and people will give multiple
tracks the same name, we decided to create a unique ID for each track and
chapter.  This ID is like the SegmentUID, except that it will only be 16bits
instead of 128bits, so save space.  The identifier tag will use this to
associate the track/chapter so that it doesn't matter if the track/chapter
number/name is changed, the tags will still be properly associated.

Third, there are a lot of dates that people like to store in tags.  To
lessen the number of dates, will will create an element like the MultiEntity
element to deal specificaly with Dates.  For the explanation we will call
there MultiDate, DateFunction, Date, DateEnd, and Comments.

Fourth, the comments.  Something in the WMP9 specs that currently has us
beat is the ability to store comments in multiple languages, and to specify
the language you are using for each comment.  So, we will be adding a
generic MultiComments sub-element to hold the Comments element and the
Language element.

This will add about 11 new elements, but will remove about 20 old ones.  So,
the changes will decrease the total number of needed elements defined, and
will increase the functionality of those that are left, as well as resolving
some logistical issues.  Below is an example of what the tags should look
like.


<Info>
    <Tags>
        <TrackTag>
        <ChapterTag>
        <MultiEntity>
              <EntityFunction>
              <EntityName>
              <EntityURL>
              <EntityEmail>
              <EntitySort>
              <MultiComment>
                  <Comment>
                  <Language>
        <MultiDate>
            <DateFunction>
            <Date>
            <DateEnd>
                <MultiComment>
                    <Comment>
                    <Language>
        <OtherTags>


And again in proper XML.

<Info>
  <Tags>
    <Track />
    <Chapter />
    <MultiEntity>
      <EntityFunction />
      <EntityName />
      <EntityURL />
      <EntityEmail />
      <EntitySort />
      <MultiComment>
        <Comment />
        <Language />
      </MultiComment>
    </MultiEntity>
    <MultiDate>
      <DateFunction />
      <Date />
      <DateEnd />
      <MultiComment>
        <Comment />
        <Language />
      </MultiComment>
    </MultiDate>
    <OtherTags />
  </Tags>
</Info>


Pamel



http://www.matroska.org


From Paul at msn.com  Mon Apr 14 10:22:28 2003
From: Paul at msn.com (Pamel)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 03:22:28 -0500
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Matroska Tags
References: <b6n3em$ln0$1@main.gmane.org> <b6up0d$g35$1@main.gmane.org> <b7a9k7$j6n$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <b7dr1l$cqg$1@main.gmane.org>

Here is a list of the elements listed under Tracks and Chapters that I was
planning on moving to the Tags element.  There were a couple that I wasn't
sure about, and I need input on them.  The idea is that this is information
that isn't essential to playback, but is informational.

The first is Name.  A basic element for the name of a track (like a song's
name) is already put in the MultiEntity element and allows for a URL and
comments on it.  It is extremely convenient to have it there, and allows for
a greater flexibility, without increasing the number of elements.  However,
a piece of information so basic as the name of the track may be better left
in the tack information, so that a basic reader wouldn't have to look at the
tags at all.  We could duplicate it, but that would mean that you have to
make sure to change two elements anytime the name is altered.

The second are the CodecXXX elements.  While some of them obviously belong
in the Track section, the rest are purely informational and can be moved to
the Tags section.  However, you would be breaking up a class of elements.

The third is the audio gain information.  This information would fit quite
well in the Tags section and would remove the duplication of existing in
both the tracks section and the chapters section.  The problem is that a
basic player that supported audio gain would have to get that information
from the Tags, and that might complicate things a bit.


The main issue here is how difficult it would be to retrieve this
information if it is stored under Tags.  I'm not sure how much of this
libmatroska would handle, but I need to know if this would be a real issue.
If it would be an issue for a hardware player, then those elements MUST stay
where they are.  However, if it would be handled easily, then it would only
make sense to move them.


Name
Language
CodecName
CodecSettings
CodecInfoURL
CodecDownloadURL
DiscID
FrameRate
DiscTrack
DiscIndex
ISRC
SegmentGain
SegmentPeak
GlobalGain
GlobalPeak
ChapterISRC
ChapterTrackGain
ChapterTrackPeak
ChapterGlobalGain
ChapterGlobalPeak
ChapEdition
ChapterEntity
ChapEntityFunction
ChapEntityName
ChapEntityURL
ChapEntityEmail
ChapComment
ChapLanguage
ChapCountry



Pamel



http://www.matroska.org


From chris at matroska.org  Mon Apr  7 14:38:52 2003
From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner)
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 14:38:52 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] matroska streaming server,  was : I will clean the matroska developers
 list soon - point of discussion
In-Reply-To: <12509.1049713722@www40.gmx.net>
References: <3E8D843C.9020700@matroska.org> <12509.1049713722@www40.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <3E91715C.9040002@matroska.org>



Hi Amit,

i was talking to robux4 on IRC.corecodec.com #matroska this afternoon, 
and he said he will write you a more detailled technical reply tonight 
if ever possible, but to give you a first overview here some important 
things on streaming server :

1. our partner project developers from TCMP ( The Core Media Player ) 
have to be heard on this issue, as they will push matroska as streaming 
solution with their Mediaplayer ( about 100,000 downloads now since 
beginning of February, http://corecoded.com ), that means they can 
probably give very valuable input on how to make it as they had plans to 
do it with OGM. I copied their list ( tcmp-devel at freelists.org ) on this 
email, lets see if we get any response, otherwise i recommend you just 
send your questions to the matroska-devel at freelists.org ML and copy 
their list on it.
 
2. Its not a good idea to start from scratch for a streaming server 
solution, there are a couple of projects that could be used as a basis, like

- VLS ( http.//videolan.org ) ; can do RTP ( UDP ) and HTTP ( TCP )
- Apple Darwin streaming server ; no links here, but maybe 
http://sf.net/mpeg4ip has one ; RTP and HTTP also
- icecast/shoutcast ( http://www.xiph.org ) ; only HTTP
- Real streaming server ( http://helixcommunity.org )

My preferred one was VLS, although it might be interesting to look at 
the client of this project also ( VLC ) as it can stream content on a 
LAN, using either HTTP or RTP, as a start.

3. In any case, a first working streaming server solution should start 
with the simple HTTP protocol case, and then evolve to RTP ( UDP ) 
later. This will require the help of the lib inventers/makers (  
robux4,  Frank  ) then, as they will be the ones to modify the lib such 
that additional EDC and ECC (  FEC ) elements can be added to the UDP 
stream such that the important block/track headers will be protected for 
transfering via UDP.

Now my answers to your questions ( best i could ) :

amit limaye wrote:

>Hello
>      Well before i start looking at the streaming server will need some
>inputs from u people 
>like 
>What is the Codec interface i m expecting ?
>
You shouldnt need a codec interface for the streaming server ? If you 
are streaming the file it is already muxed, and final for distribution.

>what is the format of data stored in our container ?
>
Your streaming server should handle the complete matroska file as is, so 
normally you wouldnt have to care about whats inside ?

>What protocols do we plan to support for streaming?
>
First HTTP ( TCP/IP ), then later also RTP ( UDP )

>Does this code need to be portable ? 
>
Most streaming servers are made for Linux, but it wouldnt hurt if 
Windows users could use it also, without having to use Cygwin for that

>Language of choice would be C++ i hope 
>-SIGTERM  amit
>
Yup :) !

Christian

http://www.matroska.org


From spyder482 at yahoo.com  Tue Apr  8 04:18:23 2003
From: spyder482 at yahoo.com (John Cannon)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 21:18:23 -0500
Subject: [matroska-devel] NNTP Gateway in my forum is working!
Message-ID: <b6tbe8$bpb$1@main.gmane.org>

It has imported the entire archive all the way back to January.  I am
working on getting it to post back.  I get an exception but i will figure it
out soon enough.  ;)

@ChristianHJW: Please don't die on me when you read this.  I know you really
want this.  But you will have to wait until I get home and reconnect to see
it :P

Spyder



http://www.matroska.org


From spyder482 at yahoo.com  Tue Apr  8 04:25:50 2003
From: spyder482 at yahoo.com (John Cannon)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 02:25:50 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: NNTP Gateway in my forum is working!
References: <b6tbe8$bpb$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <299085.1049768852510.JavaMail.Administrator@johnc>


TEST POST FROM FORUM TO NEWSGROUP!
Posted from spyder482's forum :)

http://www.matroska.org


From spyder482 at yahoo.com  Tue Apr  8 04:35:06 2003
From: spyder482 at yahoo.com (John Cannon)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 02:35:06 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: NNTP Gateway in my forum is working!
References: <299085.1049768852510.JavaMail.Administrator@johnc>
Message-ID: <24395764.1049769408549.JavaMail.Administrator@johnc>


OMG THIS REALLY WORKED!!!
Posted from spyder482's forum :)

http://www.matroska.org


From spyder482 at yahoo.com  Tue Apr  8 04:42:50 2003
From: spyder482 at yahoo.com (John Cannon)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 02:42:50 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: NNTP Gateway in my forum is working!
References: <24395764.1049769408549.JavaMail.Administrator@johnc>
Message-ID: <24546058.1049769872186.JavaMail.Administrator@johnc>


The good thing about this is that we now have full text search!!!!
Posted from spyder482's forum :)

http://www.matroska.org


From Paul at msn.com  Tue Apr  8 05:50:50 2003
From: Paul at msn.com (Pamel)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 22:50:50 -0500
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: NNTP Gateway in my forum is working!
References: <b6tbe8$bpb$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <b6tgtu$uu1$1@main.gmane.org>

"John Cannon" <spyder482 at yahoo.com> wrote
> It has imported the entire archive all the way back to January.  I am
> working on getting it to post back.

Thats wonderful.  What are you talking about?


Pamel



http://www.matroska.org


From steve.lhomme at free.fr  Tue Apr  8 11:07:46 2003
From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme)
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 11:07:46 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] Namespace pb
Message-ID: <3E929162.5020604@free.fr>


I saw on the IRC logs that Cyrius had problems with the namespaces of 
libeml.

The solution used is working but a dirty hack (#define uint8 
LIBEBML_uint8 / #undef uint8).

The problem you probably have is that all libebml classes are children 
of VDub classes (am I right ?). If there is no specific need for that I 
suggest you remove that depency because in this case you're mixing the 
namespaces of VDub (if any) and the ones of libebml/libmatroska. So you 
would need something like vdub_namespace::libebml::uint8 which is still 
possible and cleaner to use.

Other than that when you use some libebml/libmatroska elements in your 
code you should use LIBEBML_NAMESPACE::uint8 instead of using namespace 
LIBEBML_NAMESPACE (which led you to ambiguous code). After all the 
namespaces are here to help you get rid of ambiguous definitions not to 
annoy you !

2 cents

http://www.matroska.org


From suiryc at yahoo.com  Tue Apr  8 14:28:29 2003
From: suiryc at yahoo.com (Cyrius)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 05:28:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Namespace pb
In-Reply-To: <3E929162.5020604@free.fr>
Message-ID: <20030408122829.83767.qmail@web12903.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Steve Lhomme <steve.lhomme at free.fr> wrote:
> 
> I saw on the IRC logs that Cyrius had problems with
> the namespaces of 
> libeml.
> 
> The solution used is working but a dirty hack
> (#define uint8 
> LIBEBML_uint8 / #undef uint8).
> 
> The problem you probably have is that all libebml
> classes are children 
> of VDub classes (am I right ?). If there is no
> specific need for that I 
> suggest you remove that depency because in this case
> you're mixing the 
> namespaces of VDub (if any) and the ones of
> libebml/libmatroska. So you 
> would need something like
> vdub_namespace::libebml::uint8 which is still 
> possible and cleaner to use.
> 
> Other than that when you use some
> libebml/libmatroska elements in your 
> code you should use LIBEBML_NAMESPACE::uint8 instead
> of using namespace 
> LIBEBML_NAMESPACE (which led you to ambiguous code).
> After all the 
> namespaces are here to help you get rid of ambiguous
> definitions not to 
> annoy you !
> 
> 2 cents
> 
> http://www.matroska.org

Well the problem doesn't seem as simple as that.
First of all it is due to the fact that Avery
typedefed (u/s)int8/16/32/64, and that libebml also
typedefed (s)int8/16/32/64.

VirtualDub doesn't use a namespace for that (yet ? -
Avery uses namespaces in parts that have been added in
version 1.5.0). Moreover VirtualDub uses precompiled
headers. So the .cpp file has to #include "stdafx.h"
first, which then include the file containing the
typedefs.
Then I can #include my .h file that #include
libmatroska/libebml files. This lead to those errors :
Compiling...
MatroskaOutputFile.cpp
.\mod\matroska\libebml\src\api/c/libebml_t.h(79) :
error C2371: 'int32' : redefinition; different basic
types
        ..\h\vd2/system/vdtypes.h(34) : see
declaration of 'int32'
.\mod\matroska\libebml\src\api/c/libebml_t.h(80) :
error C2371: 'int16' : redefinition; different basic
types
        ..\h\vd2/system/vdtypes.h(35) : see
declaration of 'int16'
...

(vdtypes.h is the VirtualDub file where are the
typedefs ;))

This happen even when I don't use 'using namespace
LIBMATROSKA_NAMESPACE;' or 'using namespace
LIBEBML_NAMESPACE;'.
As I can't possibly modify one of the two parts (if I
create a namespace for VirtualDub typedefs I would
have to write 'using namespace vdub_namespace;' in
eavery single file needing the typedefs ... i.e.
almost every file; if I modify something in libebml
typedefs I would have to change all the files too :p)

I also tried another odd thing : I put
'START_LIBEBML_NAMESPACE' and 'END_LIBEBML_NAMESPACE'
around the typedefs in libebml_t.h (wasn't here sonce
this file is included insided the namespace in
libebml) and then the errors turned into :
Compiling...
MatroskaOutputFile.cpp
.\mod\matroska\libmatroska\src\KaxBlock.h(58) : error
C2872: 'uint32' : ambiguous symbol
.\mod\matroska\libmatroska\src\KaxBlock.h(63) : error
C2872: 'uint32' : ambiguous symbol
...

which isn't better for me :p
So actually the dirty trick of
#define int8 LIBEBML_int8
...
#include libebml/libmatroska files
...
#undef int8
...

,which makes libebml typedef to
LIBEBML_(s)int8/16/32/64 instead of (s)int8/16/32/64
that are already typedefed by VirtualDub,
was the only working solution I found so far ...

But then I am not an expert in C++ nor in namespaces
and maybe there is something obvious I am missing ;)

__________________________________________________
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From suiryc at yahoo.com  Tue Apr  8 14:33:42 2003
From: suiryc at yahoo.com (Cyrius)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 05:33:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Namespace pb
In-Reply-To: <20030408122829.83767.qmail@web12903.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20030408123342.89205.qmail@web12908.mail.yahoo.com>


> Well the problem doesn't seem as simple as that.
> First of all it is due to the fact that Avery
> typedefed (u/s)int8/16/32/64, and that libebml also
> typedefed (s)int8/16/32/64.
> ...

My bad ^^'
Those who know libebml/libmatroska already noticed
that it typedefs uint8/16/32/64 and not sint8/16/32/64 ...

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
http://tax.yahoo.com
http://www.matroska.org


From steve.lhomme at free.fr  Tue Apr  8 15:13:08 2003
From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme)
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 15:13:08 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Namespace pb
In-Reply-To: <20030408122829.83767.qmail@web12903.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20030408122829.83767.qmail@web12903.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1049807588.3e92cae48d683@imp.free.fr>


En r?ponse ? Cyrius <suiryc at yahoo.com>:

> Well the problem doesn't seem as simple as that.
> First of all it is due to the fact that Avery
> typedefed (u/s)int8/16/32/64, and that libebml also
> typedefed (s)int8/16/32/64.
> 
> VirtualDub doesn't use a namespace for that (yet ? -
> Avery uses namespaces in parts that have been added in
> version 1.5.0). Moreover VirtualDub uses precompiled
> headers. So the .cpp file has to #include "stdafx.h"
> first, which then include the file containing the
> typedefs.
> Then I can #include my .h file that #include
> libmatroska/libebml files. This lead to those errors :
> Compiling...
> MatroskaOutputFile.cpp
> .\mod\matroska\libebml\src\api/c/libebml_t.h(79) :
> error C2371: 'int32' : redefinition; different basic
> types
>         ..\h\vd2/system/vdtypes.h(34) : see
> declaration of 'int32'
> .\mod\matroska\libebml\src\api/c/libebml_t.h(80) :
> error C2371: 'int16' : redefinition; different basic
> types
>         ..\h\vd2/system/vdtypes.h(35) : see
> declaration of 'int16'
> ...
> 
> (vdtypes.h is the VirtualDub file where are the
> typedefs ;))

OK. Now I see what the problem is. As the compiler says, you already define some
types that are already defined...

Now the libraries are supposed to be usable in any application and so they
should fit in the code without much problem. That's what namespaces are for. I'm
a bit surprised that when you put START/END_LIBEBML_NAMESPACE around the code it
still produces the same. Your compiler might not be able to handle namespaces
properly then (which I don't think is the case). Maybe you didn't include the
file that specify what is in the namespace (ie EbmlConfig.h) ?

Also this should be done but it's not enough. Because there are some ancient
compilers like GCC 2.95 that don't understand standard C++ (ie namespaces). And
if you use libebml/libmatroska with other C++ code that already defined uint8
you'll end up with the same error as yours... So there should be in the code
something like this :

#if (!EBML_CLASSIC_TYPES_DEFINED)
...define them as it is now
#endif

There won't be any duplicate anymore... But there is another problem : the
library has to be compiled with these same types as you use in your own code !
Hopefully this is the case but you never know. And I don't see any way to
enforce that :( (unless we have a "port.h" file for each platform)
http://www.matroska.org


From suiryc at yahoo.com  Tue Apr  8 16:21:30 2003
From: suiryc at yahoo.com (Cyrius)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 07:21:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Namespace pb
In-Reply-To: <1049807588.3e92cae48d683@imp.free.fr>
Message-ID: <20030408142130.14289.qmail@web12906.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Steve Lhomme <steve.lhomme at free.fr> wrote:
> OK. Now I see what the problem is. As the compiler
> says, you already define some
> types that are already defined...
> 
> Now the libraries are supposed to be usable in any
> application and so they
> should fit in the code without much problem. That's
> what namespaces are for. I'm
> a bit surprised that when you put
> START/END_LIBEBML_NAMESPACE around the code it
> still produces the same. Your compiler might not be
> able to handle namespaces
> properly then (which I don't think is the case).

Well we are talking of MSVC++6 here, so we never know
:p

> Maybe you didn't include the
> file that specify what is in the namespace (ie
> EbmlConfig.h) ?

I tried including this file too but this didn't helped
(still getting 'redefinition' or 'ambiguous symbol'
errors).

> Also this should be done but it's not enough.
> Because there are some ancient
> compilers like GCC 2.95 that don't understand
> standard C++ (ie namespaces). And
> if you use libebml/libmatroska with other C++ code
> that already defined uint8
> you'll end up with the same error as yours... So
> there should be in the code
> something like this :
> 
> #if (!EBML_CLASSIC_TYPES_DEFINED)
> ...define them as it is now
> #endif
> 
> There won't be any duplicate anymore... But there is
> another problem : the
> library has to be compiled with these same types as
> you use in your own code !
> Hopefully this is the case but you never know. And I
> don't see any way to
> enforce that :( (unless we have a "port.h" file for
> each platform)

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
http://tax.yahoo.com
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From chris at matroska.org  Wed Apr  9 10:46:41 2003
From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 10:46:41 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] Matroska public alpha release date : 1 st May 2003
Message-ID: <3E93DDF1.7000501@matroska.org>



Hi all,

i am sorry about the very long email and the long list of recipients for
this email, but to be honest i lost overview of who is subscribed to the
mailing lists and i wanted to make sure you all get this message :

The matroska project, with its predecessor/sister project MCF, was
started about 2 years ago. Our aim was to build an open standard and
open source A/V container project that was flexible and intelligent
enough to last for the next 10 years, and to achieve this we did not
just hack some code together quickly and release a first alpha into the
wild, but instead we were making a lot of considerations about what such
a container should be capable of doing, and we also tried to get advice
from many different sides, like other opensource multimedia related
projects, what they would consider as necessary and what options could
convince them to support our container in their OSS projects.

After this long time, and believe me it wasnt always easy to take this
route, the core dev team of matroska was happy and proud to be able to
release a first alpha of libmatroska, the basic input/output library
that can be used to read and write matroska files, beginning of this
year. This library was greatly accepted from guys like Julien 'Cyrius'
Coloos, the main developer of VirtualdubMod, and Moritz 'mosu' Bunkus,
and they started to work instantaneously with it, building a great set
of tools for both Windows and Linux for matroska file creation and also
playback ( Linux ). As a result we are maybe capable of releasing a
first set of tested tools soon, maybe even before the launch date named
above.

So you may ask, what is it about the date that was named in the subject
line, the 1st of May ?? Well, unfortunately not all sideprojects are
coming along that well. We were maybe a bit naive to believe that every
OSS developer out there would stop working on his project immediately,
and start implementing matroska support into his tools. But, to be
honest, the poor feedback we get from the OSS multimedia world out there
is pretty demotivating for us, and we cant explain it at all. Its
unacceptable to us that at least 20 - 30 developers in the OSS world are
still investing their precious time into hacking strange things into AVI
( like SSA subtitles or DTS audio ), while a library exists allowing
them to create matroska files with the very wanted content, but in a
spec compliant way.

Sure, we have some very good feedback also, like Ronald 'BBB' Bultje
from the Gstreamer team announcing he might be able to look at making a
Gstreamer plugin for matroska, or Mike Melanson offering to look at
supporting at least playback from Xine, Francois 'mmu_man' Revol
compiling the mplayer patches for OpenBeOS, etc. But besides that there
seems to be not much interest from most other projects out there, and we
believ to know why this is : When looking at OGM, the closed source
container format based on Ogg ( made by Tobias Waldvogel ), its becoming
obvious that the OSS developers only started supporting it after people
were actually using it. Its interesting to see in this respect that for
doing this there was no nice, clean library, instead the developers
looking at it had to more or less reverse engineer the complete
container, being major hassle for sure. But they did it, as there were
users asking them to support it.

As a result of what is said above, we will change our strategy now.
Instead of developing matroska to a very stable status on many
platforms, and releasing it then to the public, we decided to release
whatever we have on 1st of May. This measure is mainly undertaken to
help us, the core dev team, to find the motivation again to work hard
and even harder on getting matroska used and accepted, and hopefully
that way we will also be capable of attracting the interest of other
multimedia OSS developers, so they start supporting matroska in their
apps, or maybe even contribute code to the main library.

There is one thing that may complicate releasing the matroska tools on
1st of May, and that is the missing DirectShow parser for Windows.
Without this parser filter it will be impossible to release matroska to
a broad audience.  Our friend BlackSun had always predicted that this
huge task is too much for only one person, and it seems our core
developer Jan 'myFUN' Schlenker is currently extremely busy with real
life stuff ( job ), so he cant contribute as much as necessary to
develop the filter into a working alpha status until 1st May. We
therefore created a task force yesterday to assist him in bringing the
parser filter into a workable state until then. This task force will
consist of 6 additional developers :

John 'spyder' Cannon
Ludovic 'BlackSun' Vialle ( DShow consultant, TCMP core dev )
Christophe 'Toff' Paris ( DShow consultant, TCMP core dev )
Steve 'robux4' LHomme
Jory 'Jcsston'
angelfire

All of them are looking at the M$ DShow SDKright now, trying to find out
what is necessary to resolve the existing bugs in the current filter. Of
course this means that they will stop their work on the current
projects. Affected are :

spyder : MPV2MKV ; MPEG1/2 video to matroska
robux4 : libmatroska
jcsston : mpv2mkv GUI , mkvmerger GUI

I hope you all understand the necessity of this step and look forward to
the 1st of May, together with us.

Comments are welcome ( dont forget to use the 'reply all' button )

Regards

Christian





http://www.matroska.org


From steve.lhomme at free.fr  Wed Apr  9 11:50:34 2003
From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 11:50:34 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Matroska public alpha release date : 1 st May 2003
In-Reply-To: <3E93DDF1.7000501@matroska.org>
References: <3E93DDF1.7000501@matroska.org>
Message-ID: <1049881834.3e93eceaa8686@imp.free.fr>


* Here are the 4 major projects on which we should concentrate right now (in
order of importance) :

1) DirectShow demuxer supporting playback of audio(PCM, MP3, ACM-based, AC3,
Vorbis), video(YUV, VCM-based, DirectShow-based, DIVX, XviD), subtitles (simple
(?), USF).

2) VirtualDubMod writing of matroska files (hopefully with all the codec
mentioned above) from an AVI source or from a capture card

2) Mosu MKVTools to create matroska files from various sources and extract meta
informations

3) DirectShow muxer supporting encoding of all possible DirectShow encoded
streams. It should be equivalent to OggDS

4) TCMP plugin to extract meta informations to display/edit (equivalent to
editing ID3 tags).



* Here is the "roadmap" that we should try to achieve until the 1st of May :

- 09/04 to 26/04 : implement as much as possible in all these tools.

- 27/04 to 31/04 : test the tools internally and verify compatibility with the
specs and all playback/reading tools.

- 01/05 : make binary and source releases of these tools available to the public
on many platforms. Advertise about it in popular places (Doom9, HydrogenAudio
mostly). Make some basic files available with their AVI equivalent.



* Here is who can do what (for all those mentioned and not mentioned please
correct things) :

- Me : I won't be home for 9 days so I can only work with my iBook (still have
problems linking libmatroska on OSX) or my parents (slow) computer. Until that
I'll update the little things remaining in the CC Tracker. When I'll be back
home I'll have 7 days to work 24/24 on matroska on whatever is needed :
DirectShow (on the matroska side), VDubMod, Mosu Tools, TCMP plugin.

- Spyder : As mpv2mkv is hardly needed for the moment, he will start looking at
how DirectShow works and try to help where he can. I think he can help on the
format when I'm away. And can also have a look at Mosu tools, horpfully
compiling on Windows too.

- Christian : Keep a daily update on the progress on each side to "reassign"
prioroties when needed.

- myFUN : well I can't say really since we don't see him often. But we need the
latest update of the DSF and the status on this code (what is missing and ideas
on how to add what is missing). If he has the time until 01/05 to help on the
DSF it will be highly appreciated.

- Cyrius : VDubMod 1.5 integration of matroska. Altough I understand he may have
other priorities too.

To keep everybody coordinated, I highly recommend the use of CVS for all the 5
tasks mantioned above.



Side Note : Blacksun could you see with Cytoplas ASAP why syncmail in the
Matroska CVS doesn't send the emails (even though it says it does) ??? This is
really important to avoid some errors when people update code over someone
else's code.
http://www.matroska.org


From chris at matroska.org  Thu Apr 10 11:36:13 2003
From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:36:13 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Matroska public alpha release date : 1 st
 May 2003
In-Reply-To: <1049881834.3e93eceaa8686@imp.free.fr>
References: <3E93DDF1.7000501@matroska.org> <1049881834.3e93eceaa8686@imp.free.fr>
Message-ID: <3E953B0D.8020909@matroska.org>


OK guys,

now like Steve is recommending, lets try to get things organized. We 
have only 21 days, and we have to use them wisely.

Priority list, as i see it :

A. Direct Show parser

1. DirectShow parser : XviD + MP3
2. DirectShow parser : DivX + MP3
3. DirectShow parser : XviD + Vorbis
4. DirectShow parser : DivX + Vorbis
5. DirectShow parser : XviD + AC3
6. DirectShow parser : DivX + AC3
7. DirectShow parser : XviD + 2xMP3
8. DirectShow parser : DivX + 2xMP3
9. DirectShow parser : XviD + 2xVorbis
10. DirectShow parser : DivX + 2xVorbis
11. DirectShow parser : XviD + MP3 + AC3
12. DirectShow parser : DivX + MP3 + AC3
13. DirectShow parser : XviD + MP3 + AC3 + Vorbis
14. DirectShow parser : DivX + MP3 + AC3 + Vorbis
15. DirectShow parser : XviD + MP3 + SRT
16. DirectShow parser : DivX + MP3 + SRT
17. DirectShow parser : XviD + Vorbis + SRT
18. DirectShow parser : DivX + Vorbis + SRT
19. DirectShow parser : XviD + AC3 + SRT
20. DirectShow parser : DivX + AC3 + SRT
21. DirectShow parser : XviD + 2xMP3 + SRT
22. DirectShow parser : DivX + 2xMP3 + SRT
23. DirectShow parser : XviD + 2xVorbis + SRT
24. DirectShow parser : DivX + 2xVorbis + SRT
25. DirectShow parser : XviD + MP3 + AC3 + SRT
26. DirectShow parser : DivX + MP3 + AC3 + SRT
27. DirectShow parser : XviD + MP3 + AC3 + Vorbis + SRT
28. DirectShow parser : DivX + MP3 + AC3 + Vorbis + SRT

Until the release on May 1st we need to have 1 - 6 at the very minimum !!!


B. VirtualdubMod :

1. VirtualdubMod : XviD muxing from AVI
2. VirtualdubMod : DivX muxing from AVI
3. VirtualdubMod : MP3 muxing from AVI
4. VirtualdubMod : Vorbis muxing from OGM
5. VirtualdubMod : Vorbis muxing from OGG
6. VirtualdubMod : MP3 muxing from MP3 file
7. VirtualdubMod : AC3 muxing from AVI
8. VirtualdubMod : AC3 muxing from OGM
9. VirtualdubMod : AC3 muxing from AC3 file
10. VirtualdubMod : XviD/DivX muxing from OGM
11. VirtualdubMod : 2x MP3 muxing from AVI
12. VirtualdubMod : 2x Vorbis muxing from OGM
13. VirtualdubMod : 2x AC3 muxing from OGM
14. VirtualdubMod : SRT muxing

For a release we should at least be able to accomplish 1. - 5. . This 
was all achieved for VirtualdubMod 1.4.12 already, so if Cyrius can not 
make these functionalities working in VdubMod 1.5.x we may still release 
the old version.

@Cyrius, any comments ?


C. Linux : mkvmerger/mplayer patch

What can i say, i guess mosu is far ahead  from what we consider as 
minimum requirements for a release, so there is no priority list, we 
should simply ask him for allowance  if we could link to his site on 
release date.
 
@mosu, comments welcome



To Do :

A. DirectShow parser :

We have to get 1. working, as soon as possible !! XviD + MP3 should be 
the start, if we achieve this we will be motivated to go on from there. 
myFUN was loading a version of VdubMod from Cyrius yesterday with lacing 
disabled, to find out if the lacing was maybe causing the problems with 
MP3 audio not working. Once XviD + MP3 is working, DivX + MP3 should be 
a breeze really.

@myFUN : any comments from your side here ?

About 3. and 4. : myFUN made tests yesterday about trying to initialize 
the Vorbis DShow filter from Tobias, but without success. I had contact 
with Ingo about this, for sure his filter would work, but he is away 
until beginning of May, so this is not an option. Here is what we can do :

- hardcode Vorbis decoding into matroska parser ( will add about 150 KB 
to the parser filter size ) ; anybody volunteering ? sypder, you made a 
Vorbis JMF plugin once, right ?
- add libogg to the filter and try to pack the Vorbis packets into Ogg 
packets, so that Tobias filter can accept the data
- release the matroska tools without Vorbis support, and maybe discuss 
with Ingo about other alternatives later


[b]Gentlemen, please, i would like to see some response to this email !! 
We have only 21 days, lets be quick and effective now, in short, lets 
organize it !![/b]

We need your help and input now to be able to finish the most necessary 
work until 1st May

Christian

Steve Lhomme wrote:

>* Here are the 4 major projects on which we should concentrate right now (in
>order of importance) :
>
>1) DirectShow demuxer supporting playback of audio(PCM, MP3, ACM-based, AC3,
>Vorbis), video(YUV, VCM-based, DirectShow-based, DIVX, XviD), subtitles (simple
>(?), USF).
>
>2) VirtualDubMod writing of matroska files (hopefully with all the codec
>mentioned above) from an AVI source or from a capture card
>
>2) Mosu MKVTools to create matroska files from various sources and extract meta
>informations
>
>3) DirectShow muxer supporting encoding of all possible DirectShow encoded
>streams. It should be equivalent to OggDS
>
>4) TCMP plugin to extract meta informations to display/edit (equivalent to
>editing ID3 tags).
>
>
>
>* Here is the "roadmap" that we should try to achieve until the 1st of May :
>
>- 09/04 to 26/04 : implement as much as possible in all these tools.
>
>- 27/04 to 31/04 : test the tools internally and verify compatibility with the
>specs and all playback/reading tools.
>
>- 01/05 : make binary and source releases of these tools available to the public
>on many platforms. Advertise about it in popular places (Doom9, HydrogenAudio
>mostly). Make some basic files available with their AVI equivalent.
>
>
>
>* Here is who can do what (for all those mentioned and not mentioned please
>correct things) :
>
>- Me : I won't be home for 9 days so I can only work with my iBook (still have
>problems linking libmatroska on OSX) or my parents (slow) computer. Until that
>I'll update the little things remaining in the CC Tracker. When I'll be back
>home I'll have 7 days to work 24/24 on matroska on whatever is needed :
>DirectShow (on the matroska side), VDubMod, Mosu Tools, TCMP plugin.
>
>- Spyder : As mpv2mkv is hardly needed for the moment, he will start looking at
>how DirectShow works and try to help where he can. I think he can help on the
>format when I'm away. And can also have a look at Mosu tools, horpfully
>compiling on Windows too.
>
>- Christian : Keep a daily update on the progress on each side to "reassign"
>prioroties when needed.
>
>- myFUN : well I can't say really since we don't see him often. But we need the
>latest update of the DSF and the status on this code (what is missing and ideas
>on how to add what is missing). If he has the time until 01/05 to help on the
>DSF it will be highly appreciated.
>
>- Cyrius : VDubMod 1.5 integration of matroska. Altough I understand he may have
>other priorities too.
>
>To keep everybody coordinated, I highly recommend the use of CVS for all the 5
>tasks mantioned above.
>
>
>
>Side Note : Blacksun could you see with Cytoplas ASAP why syncmail in the
>Matroska CVS doesn't send the emails (even though it says it does) ??? This is
>really important to avoid some errors when people update code over someone
>else's code.
>http://www.matroska.org
>
>  
>


http://www.matroska.org


From moritz at bunkus.org  Thu Apr 10 11:44:43 2003
From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:44:43 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Matroska public alpha release date : 1 st May 2003
In-Reply-To: <3E953B0D.8020909@matroska.org>
References: <3E93DDF1.7000501@matroska.org> <1049881834.3e93eceaa8686@imp.free.fr> <3E953B0D.8020909@matroska.org>
Message-ID: <20030410094443.GX27965@bunkus.org>

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From steve.lhomme at free.fr  Thu Apr 10 12:21:51 2003
From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:21:51 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Matroska public alpha release date : 1 st May 2003
In-Reply-To: <3E953B0D.8020909@matroska.org>
References: <3E93DDF1.7000501@matroska.org> <1049881834.3e93eceaa8686@imp.free.fr> <3E953B0D.8020909@matroska.org>
Message-ID: <1049970111.3e9545bf9319a@imp.free.fr>


Here is what I plan to do :

- tonight : add the debugging system of matroska in the DShow Parser, it might
help us find bugs faster. Explain how to use this debug system here. Try to
implement a clean TimecodeScale handling in the library.

Then I'll be off for vacation. In this time I can only develop on the iBook
(I'll have to patch the code, not to use std::wstring for the moment) and on a
K6-300. The only connection to the net will be with RTC (too expensive to be
connected for a long time). I'll take what is needed to develop on both
platforms. So I may be able to work on the DSF as well.

I would also like to get my hands on what is existing for VDubMod (1.4.x base
and 1.5.x base) so that I can work on it. Could Cyrius of Belgabor make a nice
zip package with all the required sources ? I don't know exactly what is
possible right now. Is it possible to add more than one audio track to a movie ?
The VDub support is as important as the DSF otherwise noone will be able to use
matroska. So I'll put as much (if not more) time there as on the DSF...

On the DSF I can only make sure the Matroska support is OK and help with
possible problems (like the lacing issue). I still have to study the data flow
of the DSF (init, open, config, read/write, close). Could anybody make a small
picture explaining this ? With the possible events we have to handle (if any) ?
Is there a good source on the net about all these DirectShow things ? Something
simple that I could understand, and hopefully print.

So basically whenever you need help about matroska on these front, I'll (try to)
be there ! For the rest, I'll have to learn while working, so it will be slower
But I'll make my best.

I'll be back home on the 21/04 and can work full time on matroska. So from there
I hope I have learned enough and can boost development for the release date... 

Remember that we have to be specs compliant and be forward compatible, above all
things !
http://www.matroska.org


From Paul at msn.com  Fri Apr 11 05:52:27 2003
From: Paul at msn.com (Pamel)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 22:52:27 -0500
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Matroska public alpha release date : 1 st May 2003
References: <3E93DDF1.7000501@matroska.org> <1049881834.3e93eceaa8686@imp.free.fr> <3E953B0D.8020909@matroska.org>
Message-ID: <b75e47$ajg$1@main.gmane.org>

"Christian HJ Wiesner" <chris at matroska.org> wrote >
> A. Direct Show parser
>
> 1. DirectShow parser : XviD + MP3
> 2. DirectShow parser : DivX + MP3
> 3. DirectShow parser : XviD + Vorbis
> 4. DirectShow parser : DivX + Vorbis
> 5. DirectShow parser : XviD + AC3
> 6. DirectShow parser : DivX + AC3
> Until the release on May 1st we need to have 1 - 6 at the very minimum !!!

I don't know if ya'll can get 3+4 done within 21 days, but everything else
is totaly doable.  Vorbis will just be the tricky one.

One thing that I kept wanting to mention while I was at work lurking is to
make sure to make the video stream selectable somehow in the filter.  I
realize that you said that you can't change the video size on the fly, but
what about the video stream?  If it was the same resolution, would that work
fine?  Or would it also have to be the same codec?  I mention this just so
that people keep it in mind when doing the architecture.  It is not vital at
all when doing the big release, it just has to be possible to be added in
the future.

I think that makes 3 streams that all need to be selectable.  Audio, video,
and overlay (for subtitles) streams all need to be selectable eventually.


Pamel



http://www.matroska.org


From chris at matroska.org  Wed Apr  9 14:41:03 2003
From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 14:41:03 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] [Fwd: Re: kaxdemux.dll]
Message-ID: <3E9414DF.1020909@matroska.org>


FYI :

Ingo Ralf Blum's advice on how to adress the problem with laced blocks 
from the DirectShow parser

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	Re: kaxdemux.dll
Date: 	Sat, 5 Apr 2003 12:35:57 +0200
From: 	Ingo Ralf Blum <ingo.ralf.blum at pluto.uni-freiburg.de>
To: 	Christian HJ Wiesner <chris at matroska.org>, Steve Lhomme 
<steve.lhomme at free.fr>
CC: 	<myfun at matroska.org>, "Ludovic 'BlackSun' Vialle" 
<blacksun at corecodec.com>
References: 	<3E7E372B.2080700 at corecodec.com> 
<3E8B4675.5000002 at matroska.org> <1049295348.3e8af9f43f6c6 at imp.free.fr>



Hallo all,

> Apparently that doesn't solve the lacing problem (that has no timecode).
At
> least it may solve an existing problem in the filter :)
>
> Ingo, I remember we talked about that a long time ago and the conclusion
was
> that there wouldn't be any problems with lacing in DirectShow, right ?
Could you
> explain us (at least myFUN who will understand better) again ?
>
> Also for my understanding of the DSF... Does the filter push the frames in
DS or
> DS pulls them ?

the DirectShow demultiplexer usually pushes the samples. If it isn't able to
determine the timestamps it simply can omit them until the next stamp is
read from the file. The decompressor then can cache the data until a valid
time stamp is received and then decompresss all data at once. If the
decompressor isn't able to handle such caching it probably throws out the
uncompressed audio data without any stamps. This might confuse the audio
renderer. If so - and this has to be tested - one could write a filter which
does the caching and stamping for unstamped data. A good way to do this is
to give this filter a higher merit value than the audio renderers, so that
it is inserted automatically before the renderer while automatically
building a graph.

Regards,

Ingo





http://www.matroska.org


From chris at matroska.org  Wed Apr  9 15:42:07 2003
From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 15:42:07 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] First commit to matroska DShow parser ( kaxdemux.dll ) from Toff
 from the TCMP dev team :)
Message-ID: <3E94232F.5050203@matroska.org>


Hi,

just to inform you that Toff has commited an addition to myFUN's DShow 
filter today :) ! His patch helps to identify matroska files even if the 
extension was screwed and then make sure the matroska parser is being 
inserted into the graph. Thanks Toff, thanks so much !!

Christian

http://www.matroska.org


From chris at matroska.org  Wed Apr  9 16:37:37 2003
From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 16:37:37 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] [Fwd: Re: kaxdemux.dll]
Message-ID: <3E943031.1080007@matroska.org>


FYI ( 2nd sending ) :

Ingo Ralf Blum's advice on how to adress the problem with laced blocks
from the DirectShow parser

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	Re: kaxdemux.dll
Date: 	Sat, 5 Apr 2003 12:35:57 +0200
From: 	Ingo Ralf Blum <ingo.ralf.blum at pluto.uni-freiburg.de>
To: 	Christian HJ Wiesner <chris at matroska.org>, Steve Lhomme
<steve.lhomme at free.fr>
CC: 	<myfun at matroska.org>, "Ludovic 'BlackSun' Vialle"
<blacksun at corecodec.com>
References: 	<3E7E372B.2080700 at corecodec.com>
<3E8B4675.5000002 at matroska.org> <1049295348.3e8af9f43f6c6 at imp.free.fr>



Hallo all,

> Apparently that doesn't solve the lacing problem (that has no timecode).
At
> least it may solve an existing problem in the filter :)
>
> Ingo, I remember we talked about that a long time ago and the conclusion
was
> that there wouldn't be any problems with lacing in DirectShow, right ?
Could you
> explain us (at least myFUN who will understand better) again ?
>
> Also for my understanding of the DSF... Does the filter push the frames in
DS or
> DS pulls them ?

the DirectShow demultiplexer usually pushes the samples. If it isn't able to
determine the timestamps it simply can omit them until the next stamp is
read from the file. The decompressor then can cache the data until a valid
time stamp is received and then decompresss all data at once. If the
decompressor isn't able to handle such caching it probably throws out the
uncompressed audio data without any stamps. This might confuse the audio
renderer. If so - and this has to be tested - one could write a filter which
does the caching and stamping for unstamped data. A good way to do this is
to give this filter a higher merit value than the audio renderers, so that
it is inserted automatically before the renderer while automatically
building a graph.

Regards,

Ingo






http://www.matroska.org


From srirampondy at rediffmail.com  Fri Apr 11 15:09:31 2003
From: srirampondy at rediffmail.com (Sriram  Srinivasan)
Date: 11 Apr 2003 13:09:31 -0000
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: matroska : MPEG1/2 video streams muxing
Message-ID: <20030411130931.18543.qmail@mailweb33.rediffmail.com>

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From chris at matroska.org  Tue Apr 15 13:30:40 2003
From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 06:30:40 -0500
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: matroska : MPEG1/2 video streams muxing
In-Reply-To: <20030411130931.18543.qmail@mailweb33.rediffmail.com>
References: <20030411130931.18543.qmail@mailweb33.rediffmail.com>
Message-ID: <3E9BED60.3070304@matroska.org>


Sriram Srinivasan wrote:

>Hi Chris
>Thanks for the info. I shall go thro it. I had mailed you twice 
>asking you about how I can help you, with the same. Please do send 
>me a small info on what will be my responsibility. From next week 
>I will be a little free. I can spend my time on the project.
>thanks
>Sriram
>
Hi Sririam,

i am in the US for a trade show currently ( Chicago ) and cant answer my 
email for several days sometimes, depending on the evening shedule, 
sorry for that.

Is there any chance that you could join us on irc.corecodec.com 
#matroska ? If you go to the 'contacts' page on our homepage ( 
http://www.matroska.org ) you will find links to some IRC clients you 
could use, in case you are not used to be on IRC channels. I'd estimate 
it to be essential that we first talk to each other and find out more 
precisely where your interests are before we assign a job to you.

As spyder is currently helping with the DirectShow parser ( thats the 
most important thing until we release on 1st May ) there is no work 
being done on MPV2MKV , the tool to be able to mux MPEG 1/2 video into 
matroska files. I estimate you had a look at the matroska CVS before ( 
anonymous CVS checkout is working on 
http://corecodec.org/projects/matroska , we can teach you through how to 
obtain the sources if we meet on IRC ) and you could look at spyder's 
existing MPA2MKA code ( to mux MP 2/3 audio into matroska ) to get a 
feeling of how its done.

But please, this is just an idea of what could be done, we have a couple 
of other things you could look at, like helping Jory 'jcsston' Stone 
with muxing subtitles into matroska, etc.

Please install an IRC client and join us any time on  irc.corecodec.com 
#matroska , we are looking forward to meeting you there.

Regards

Christian


http://www.matroska.org


From Paul at msn.com  Sat Apr 12 18:38:52 2003
From: Paul at msn.com (Pamel)
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 11:38:52 -0500
Subject: [matroska-devel] BlockDuration
Message-ID: <b79fcr$2qv$1@main.gmane.org>

I honestly thought this had been added months ago because we had talked
about it.

The duration of the frame can be estimated by using the timecode of the next
block.  This will work for every block the last one, which is a problem.  If
you append two files, you need to know how much of a delay there will be
between the last frame of the first segment and the first frame of the
second segment.

Because of this I would recommend only using the BlockDuration element for
the last block of each track.


Pamel



http://www.matroska.org


From spyder482 at yahoo.com  Sun Apr 13 16:51:21 2003
From: spyder482 at yahoo.com (John Cannon)
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 09:51:21 -0500
Subject: [matroska-devel] Bug in libebml found
Message-ID: <b7btdn$ig5$1@main.gmane.org>

Steve, I want your opinion on this.  I seem to have found a fix but I am not
quite sure if it's a valid way of doing it.  At the end of a file, the
filter would have an assertion failure.  The source of this problem is a
call to EbmlStream::SkipData() at line 988 of kaxdemux.cpp.  The actual
problem lies within the libebml code however.  As you know, the previously
mentioned method calls EbmlElement::SkipData() which has a severe problem in
it's code.  At line 435 of EbmlElement.cpp the variable bUpperElement is
never assigned thus creating an assertion failure when it reaches line 441.
The assertion lies within some other code but the value of bUpperElement is
random at all times in my debugging.  The fix that I found for it was to
change line 435 from:

int bUpperElement;

to:

int bUpperElement = 0;

I am not sure of the inner workings of libebml but this fixed the problem
for me as the assertion requires the value to be 0 and not a random number
like -8765357 :)

Spyder



http://www.matroska.org


From steve.lhomme at free.fr  Sun Apr 13 22:55:48 2003
From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme)
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 22:55:48 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Bug in libebml found
In-Reply-To: <b7btdn$ig5$1@main.gmane.org>
References: <b7btdn$ig5$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <3E99CED4.5020504@free.fr>


John Cannon wrote:
> Steve, I want your opinion on this.  I seem to have found a fix but I am not
> quite sure if it's a valid way of doing it.  At the end of a file, the
> filter would have an assertion failure.  The source of this problem is a
> call to EbmlStream::SkipData() at line 988 of kaxdemux.cpp.  The actual
> problem lies within the libebml code however.  As you know, the previously
> mentioned method calls EbmlElement::SkipData() which has a severe problem in
> it's code.  At line 435 of EbmlElement.cpp the variable bUpperElement is
> never assigned thus creating an assertion failure when it reaches line 441.
> The assertion lies within some other code but the value of bUpperElement is
> random at all times in my debugging.  The fix that I found for it was to
> change line 435 from:
> 
> int bUpperElement;
> 
> to:
> 
> int bUpperElement = 0;
> 
> I am not sure of the inner workings of libebml but this fixed the problem
> for me as the assertion requires the value to be 0 and not a random number
> like -8765357 :)

You're right, this is a bug that you corrected.

I'll upload a version to CVS with the correction (bUpperElement is only 
needed at one level of call).

http://www.matroska.org


From steve.lhomme at free.fr  Sun Apr 13 20:16:23 2003
From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme)
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 20:16:23 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [matroska-devel] CVS
Message-ID: <1050257783.3e99a97781649@imp.free.fr>


As TortoiseCVS refuses to work for me, would anybody put the latest CVS in a 
zip file somewhere for me ? Thank you
http://www.matroska.org


From blacksun at corecodec.com  Sun Apr 13 20:51:56 2003
From: blacksun at corecodec.com (Ludovic "BlackSun" Vialle)
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 20:51:56 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: CVS
In-Reply-To: <1050257783.3e99a97781649@imp.free.fr>
References: <1050257783.3e99a97781649@imp.free.fr>
Message-ID: <b7cb48$qdq$1@main.gmane.org>


Steve Lhomme wrote:
> As TortoiseCVS refuses to work for me, would anybody put the latest CVS in a 
> zip file somewhere for me ? Thank you
> http://www.matroska.org
> 

you may use http://corecodec.org/project/admin/editpackages.php?group_id=20

release the packages, download them and remove them


http://www.matroska.org


From steve.lhomme at free.fr  Sun Apr 13 22:54:35 2003
From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme)
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 22:54:35 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: CVS
In-Reply-To: <b7cb48$qdq$1@main.gmane.org>
References: <1050257783.3e99a97781649@imp.free.fr> <b7cb48$qdq$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <3E99CE8B.7000504@free.fr>


Ludovic "BlackSun" Vialle wrote:
> Steve Lhomme wrote:
> 
>>As TortoiseCVS refuses to work for me, would anybody put the latest CVS in a 
>>zip file somewhere for me ? Thank you
>>http://www.matroska.org
>>
> 
> 
> you may use http://corecodec.org/project/admin/editpackages.php?group_id=20
> 
> release the packages, download them and remove them

I'll try the CVS on the iBook (at least this is a decent OS with SSH and 
CVS as part of the system ;).

http://www.matroska.org


From christophe.paris at free.fr  Mon Apr 14 00:32:11 2003
From: christophe.paris at free.fr (Christophe PARIS)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 00:32:11 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] Matroska DS filter 
Message-ID: <3E99E56B.4070204@free.fr>


Hi myFUN,

Here is what we discovered today working on the DSF :

// ---------------------------

In CKaxDemuxFilter::CStreamer::ThreadProc() too much data were copied to 
the sample buffer, so there was garbage after mp3 frames and it's why 
audio file only didn't played

Original code :
memcpy(pSampData, pBlock->GetBuffer(n).Buffer(), 
pBlock->GetBuffer(n).Size());
pSample->SetActualDataLength(pBlock->GetSize());

New code :
memcpy(pSampData, pBlock->GetBuffer(n).Buffer(), 
pBlock->GetBuffer(n).Size());
pSample->SetActualDataLength(pBlock->GetBuffer(n).Size()); // 
pBlock->GetSize() include the block header in the size

// ---------------------------

There was a problem with mka file created by mpa2mka or matroskadub, one 
of the both was wrong !!
The track index was set to 1 in mpa2mka and to 0 in matroskadub.
Changing this to 0 is more compatible with the DSF filter.
So we changed mpa2mka.

// ---------------------------

In CKaxDemuxFilter::DeliverSample we discovered that it's better to not 
set timestamps than to set wrong timestamps.
So here is some code that allow to play video + audio files, it's far 
from perfect but it show that we really have a problem with timestamps, 
and at least we can see video playing (this is not the real solution) :

HRESULT CKaxDemuxFilter::DeliverSample(int nTrack, IMediaSample 
*pSample, uint32 timecode, int nSample) {
    CAutoLock        StreamLock(&m_StreamLock);
    REFERENCE_TIME    tStart, tEnd;
    uint32            tTrack = nTrack;

    POSITION pos = m_OutPins.GetHeadPosition();
    CKaxOutPin *pPin;
    while (nTrack--) pPin = m_OutPins.GetNext(pos);
    if (pPin == NULL) return E_FAIL;
    if (!pPin->IsConnected()) return E_FAIL;

    /* code removed here */

    // set the stream- and mediatimes
    tTrack = timecode - pPin->GetTrackTime();
    pPin->SetTrackTime(timecode);

    // 1. stream time
    pPin->GetStrTime(&tStart);
    tStart += tTrack * m_TimeScale;
    pPin->SetStrTime(&tStart);
    tStart += nSample << 1;
    if (tTrack == 2) tStart = 0;
    tEnd = tStart;
    pSample->SetTime(&tStart, &tEnd);
  
    // 2. media time
    pPin->GetMediaTime(&tStart);
    tStart += tTrack * m_TimeScale;
    pPin->SetMediaTime(&tStart);
    tStart += nSample << 1;
    if (tTrack == 2) tStart = 0;
    tEnd = tStart;
    pSample->SetMediaTime(&tStart, &tEnd);

    return pPin->Deliver(pSample);
}

Audio timestamps are set to 0, cause it's the audio renderer that is 
used as a clock, so timestamps are not mandatory for it, playing at a 
defined frequency is a good way for him to calculate the timestamps he need.
I think that this is only working if video and audio are originaly synched.
Btw this is only a hack, DS seems to prefer to have no timestamps at all 
that wrong timestamps ;-)

// ---------------------------

So what we get ?
hmm, audio only file (with mp3) are playing well until you reach the end.
audio+video is still jerky but you can nearly watch the movie ;-)

Best regards Toff

http://www.matroska.org


From steve.lhomme at free.fr  Mon Apr 14 15:12:07 2003
From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 15:12:07 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] Update tools
Message-ID: <3E9AB3A7.1020300@free.fr>


Hi everyone,

I have made the necessary changes in CVS (I hope it is complete compared 
  to my local dir) to reflect the latest changes in the specs :

- BlockDuration addition to be DirectShow friendly (should be used at 
least on the last Block of each track)
- More consistent timecode handling. There is still some things to be 
doen, but in general the user only "see" the global timecodes in 1ns.
- Track Numbers can be now as big as 0X4000 which is far enough for the 
moment and the distant future (the specs allow more).

Because these changes involve compatibility issues with the existing 
files/tools I ask you to :
- update your tools with the latest CVS code
- update your sample files with new ones built with the latest CVS

On a side not, if you find bugs/corrections (like in the DSF) please 
upload the code on CVS ! So that everyone doesn't have to recode them 
locally everytime. An email is sent on matroska-cvs so everyone can be 
informed of it quickly.

cya later

http://www.matroska.org


From moritz at bunkus.org  Mon Apr 14 20:27:32 2003
From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:27:32 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Update tools
In-Reply-To: <3E9AB3A7.1020300@free.fr>
References: <3E9AB3A7.1020300@free.fr>
Message-ID: <20030414182732.GH27965@bunkus.org>

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From chris at matroska.org  Tue Apr 15 14:03:17 2003
From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 07:03:17 -0500
Subject: [matroska-devel] C wrapper for the C++ library
Message-ID: <3E9BF505.6030100@matroska.org>



Gentlemen,

i wonder if there was any chance to look at the C wrapper for the C++ 
lib ? Be patient with me if i am requesting nonsense now, you know i 
dont have a clue about coding, but as the work for the porting of the 
complete library to C seems to be stucked somewhere on animesh' HDD ( it 
would be soo nice from him to share his work with us, how ever 
unfinished it was ), shouldnt we change strategies now and look at a C 
wrapper for the C++ lib instead now ?

What you think ?

Regards

Christian


http://www.matroska.org


From moritz at bunkus.org  Tue Apr 15 14:17:04 2003
From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 14:17:04 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: C wrapper for the C++ library
In-Reply-To: <3E9BF505.6030100@matroska.org>
References: <3E9BF505.6030100@matroska.org>
Message-ID: <20030415121704.GJ27965@bunkus.org>

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From chris at matroska.org  Fri Apr 18 03:26:04 2003
From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 20:26:04 -0500
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: C wrapper for the C++ library
In-Reply-To: <20030415121704.GJ27965@bunkus.org>
References: <3E9BF505.6030100@matroska.org> <20030415121704.GJ27965@bunkus.org>
Message-ID: <3E9F542C.4090608@matroska.org>


Moritz Bunkus wrote:

>Hi.
>
>One of the drawbacks of C++ is that there are a lot of compilers that
>are not completely compatible to each other regarding the C++ source
>code. E.g. for the current implementation I have to test whether or not
>the current gcc version is 2.9x or 3.x and handle some things a bnit
>differently. SO writing only a wrapper would not solve these problems.
>
>A pure C implementation however would not suffer from these things, so
>it would be easier to port that version/use it with different
>compierls. One may think of Xiph whatever one wants to, but their C code
>is highly portable.
>
>Therefore a C wrapper wouldn't gain us much, I'm afraid.
>
But it would be better than having to use the C++ lib and the C++ API ? 
Am i wrong ?


http://www.matroska.org


From Paul at msn.com  Wed Apr 16 07:10:09 2003
From: Paul at msn.com (Pamel)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 00:10:09 -0500
Subject: [matroska-devel] MXF Tags
Message-ID: <b7ioi3$tqu$1@main.gmane.org>

Bruce,

My name is Paul and I have been put in charge of creating the list of
information tags(metadata) supported by Matroska.  I was curious what kind
of system MXF used to see if there was anything that we could use.  Because
I am working specificaly on tags, I did not look to deeply into how MXF
works.  The list of tags I found were here:
http://www.ist-nuggets.tv/mxf/parked%20for%20Trial%20Publication/S380M-mxf-D
MS1-20030331.pdf
starting on page 8.
What I am most interested is what you seem to call "Finitely Durable
Metadata".  These would be akin to ID3 tags.  However, the tags that I see
there seem to be quite extensive, and what most people would refer to as
"overkill".  Is there a different place that I should refer to?

Our tagging system is somewhat expansive because of a goal to support all
existing tags in formats currently available.  Most of the tags we support
will be coming from ID3v2.4, Windows Media Player 9, and Exteneded INFO.
More information about these can be found here:
http://www.id3.org/develop.html
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnwmt/html/
wm_metadata_usage.asp
http://kibus1.narod.ru/sof/abcavi/infotags.htm

I am curious if the list of metadata tags that you use are specificaly
selected for compatability with already defined AAF metadata units, or if
you simply selected them on your own.  I glanced through some of the AAF
documentation, but I was unable to find a list of tags defined specificaly
in AAF, but rather some scattered tags defined, and the way to define your
own metadata units.  Is there a list of predefined metadata units that we
could look at to see what else we NEED to support to start some AAF
compliancy?

That actually leads to my next question of what is required to have this
compatability?  Matroska doesn't have a way to support all of the possible
metadata by track segments in its structure, unless we defined a track for
storing that data in.  It looks like that is the way that you are doing it,
and we may be able to simply copy that DM Track design strait over.
However, I am not sure about the compatability.  The documents show a
Timecode Track also, which is very different from how we align data.  We
simply attach a timecode to each block of data for each track individualy.

Thank you for any answers you can give me.


Pamel



http://www.matroska.org


From chris at matroska.org  Thu Apr 17 06:58:56 2003
From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 23:58:56 -0500
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Matroska, DirectShow, Cabbages and Kings :)
In-Reply-To: <000001c30483$3b8c4060$7124fea9@flicker>
References: <000001c30483$3b8c4060$7124fea9@flicker>
Message-ID: <3E9E3490.5000107@matroska.org>


Igor,

thanks for your offer, i am currently on a bussiness trip in the US and 
forwarding your email to the mailing list and the guys who are in charge 
of the filter. If you know how to use CVS ( WinCVS, TortoiseCVS ) you 
can obtain the latest sourcecode of our DShow parser from there and make 
some tests, however i recommend you join our IRC channel on 
irc.corecodec.dom #matroska and talk to the guys who are actually 
developing it ( Toff, myFUN, Blacksun, Cyrius ) about how you could help 
best ... i am sure you can help us, especially if you have a background 
in DirectShow already, and your help was very much appreciated.

I love the idea about a Vegas video plugin, didnt know their API/SDK was 
open for doing that, not to talk about Adobe Premiere and Ulead. If you 
dont feel like contributing to the DShow filter you could maybe still 
look into those plugins ? We certainly could help you with that, 
explaining to you how libmatroska would work, but after May 1st as until 
then we are all busy getting the release done smoothly.

Regards

Christian

Igor-Hotmail wrote:

> Hello, Chris!
>
> I?ve read your announcement on sourceforge.net regarding DirectShow 
> programmers for Matroska project. I was very impressed with Matroska 
> (really, really!) and would be glad to help. Have been working 3+ 
> years with DirectShow by now, but as to Matroska itself ? have to 
> admit that I am not familiar with the stuff very well yet, so some 
> learning curve will be inevitable, is it acceptable? Also, there is 
> another thing I want to let you know from the very beginning: although 
> I was truly inspired by Matroska project and want to participate, I 
> won?t be able to contribute too much time, so if you expect somebody 
> capable of working several hours a day ? you need another man J
>
> By ?DirectShow parser? you mean source filter, right? Do you have any 
> plans for the Matroska dump/renderer filter as well?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Igor Kholodov.
>
> P.S.
>
> If you already have somebody for DirectShow filters, may I suggest 
> another couple of ideas? I would be glad to take care of them if there 
> is nothing more urgent?
>
>    1. AVI custom handler [or AVI API wrapper] for matroska format.
>       Although Matroska?s ?functionality? supersedes AVI, AVI API is
>       still very popular and is widely used, e.g. in TMPGEncoder,
>       Procoder, earlier versions of CinemaCraft to name just a few
>       MPEG encoders. Providing access to Matroska files via AVI API
>       will still provide a good part of Matroska functionality [in
>       some cases ? all of it] while at the same time making it
>       ?compatible? with fairly popular multimedia applications. It
>       will help to ?boost? Matroska popularity
>    2. AvySynth plug-in for Matroska format. Similar to 1 but providing
>       access to underlying Matroska file content in a little different
>       way = trough AviSynth
>    3. I also think that it would be interesting to write a Matroska
>       file format plug-in for Vegas Video ? that is my favorite video
>       non-linear editor. The idea is to render Vegas video projects
>       into Matroska format file.
>    4. Same as 3 [from ?marketing? point of view - probably to even
>       more extent] could be applied not only to Vegas, but also to
>       Adobe Premiere and ULead MediaStudio, but minus here is that
>       they are not my favorite video editors J
>
> P.P.S.
>
> How do you manage to have so much time to participate in so many 
> open-source projects? I am envious of you J
>



http://www.matroska.org


From iholodov at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 17 18:18:42 2003
From: iholodov at hotmail.com (Igor Kholodov)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 12:18:42 -0400
Subject: [matroska-devel] help
Message-ID: <BAY2-DAV48Tl6kpesl70001596f@hotmail.com>

help

http://www.matroska.org


From moritz at bunkus.org  Thu Apr 17 21:46:10 2003
From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 21:46:10 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] Cue data
Message-ID: <20030417194610.GN27965@bunkus.org>

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From moritz at bunkus.org  Sat Apr 19 01:02:38 2003
From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus)
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 01:02:38 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Cue data
In-Reply-To: <20030417194610.GN27965@bunkus.org>
References: <20030417194610.GN27965@bunkus.org>
Message-ID: <20030418230238.GS27965@bunkus.org>

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From moritz at bunkus.org  Sat Apr 19 01:17:07 2003
From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus)
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 01:17:07 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Cue data
In-Reply-To: <20030418230238.GS27965@bunkus.org>
References: <20030417194610.GN27965@bunkus.org> <20030418230238.GS27965@bunkus.org>
Message-ID: <20030418231706.GT27965@bunkus.org>

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From steve.lhomme at free.fr  Sat Apr 19 08:52:42 2003
From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme)
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 08:52:42 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Cue data
In-Reply-To: <20030418231706.GT27965@bunkus.org>
References: <20030417194610.GN27965@bunkus.org> <20030418230238.GS27965@bunkus.org> <20030418231706.GT27965@bunkus.org>
Message-ID: <3EA0F23A.3000700@free.fr>


> I'm at my parent's at the moment and working/writing emails via SSH on
> my server at home in Braunschweig so I cannot investigate further until
> Sunday evening (CET).

Modern computing :)

I think there might/must be a problem with the Cue data, because some 
data should be scaled. But I don't think I added the temporary 1000000 
fixed timecodescale there. I'll add a fix ASAP. Probably on monday 
evening. If anybody want the to make the changes where necessary, feel 
free. (remember that the timecode in the Block is not scaled and get 
scaled via the parent)


http://www.matroska.org


From chris at matroska.org  Fri Apr 18 03:59:45 2003
From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 20:59:45 -0500
Subject: [matroska-devel] Matroska DirectShow parser filter working without errors, and even
 with Vorbis audio
Message-ID: <3E9F5C11.8020907@matroska.org>



Ladies and Gentlemen,

i do have the great pleasure to announce that our friends from the TCMP 
dev team, Toff and Blacksun, with the support from Cyrius, were finally 
successful in debugging the Matroska DirectShow parser filter. Its 
working fine now  ( no stuttering/buffer underruns ) with

DivX + MP3
XviD + MP3
DivX + Vorbis
XviD + Vorbis

All my thanks goes to you guys, where would we be without you.

As a result of that we can now look forward to May 1st, the official 
public release date of all available tools. I'd not be surprised if the 
filter will make some more progress until then, like allowing to switch 
between different audio tracks, or offering first subtitles support. 
We'll see what the guys will come up with until then.

I am happy and excited about this huge step forward. You guys are great !!

Christian


http://www.matroska.org


From christophe.paris at free.fr  Sat Apr 19 14:27:20 2003
From: christophe.paris at free.fr (Christophe PARIS)
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 14:27:20 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Matroska DirectShow parser filter working without errors, and
 even   with Vorbis audio
In-Reply-To: <3E9F5C11.8020907@matroska.org>
References: <3E9F5C11.8020907@matroska.org>
Message-ID: <b7rf47$qqu$1@main.gmane.org>


Hi Ladies and Gentlemen,

Christian you can add AC3 and PCM16 to your list.
And now the filter report duration & position to the media player also 
thanks to the preliminary IMediaSeeking interface support.

Regards Toff

Christian HJ Wiesner wrote:
> 
> Ladies and Gentlemen,
> 
> i do have the great pleasure to announce that our friends from the TCMP 
> dev team, Toff and Blacksun, with the support from Cyrius, were finally 
> successful in debugging the Matroska DirectShow parser filter. Its 
> working fine now  ( no stuttering/buffer underruns ) with
> 
> DivX + MP3
> XviD + MP3
> DivX + Vorbis
> XviD + Vorbis
> 
> All my thanks goes to you guys, where would we be without you.
> 
> As a result of that we can now look forward to May 1st, the official 
> public release date of all available tools. I'd not be surprised if the 
> filter will make some more progress until then, like allowing to switch 
> between different audio tracks, or offering first subtitles support. 
> We'll see what the guys will come up with until then.
> 
> I am happy and excited about this huge step forward. You guys are great !!
> 
> Christian


http://www.matroska.org


From moritz at bunkus.org  Sat Apr 19 18:33:07 2003
From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus)
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 18:33:07 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Matroska DirectShow parser filter working without errors, and even   with Vorbis audio
In-Reply-To: <b7rf47$qqu$1@main.gmane.org>
References: <3E9F5C11.8020907@matroska.org> <b7rf47$qqu$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20030419163307.GV27965@bunkus.org>

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From spyder482 at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 18 19:31:03 2003
From: spyder482 at yahoo.com (John Cannon)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 12:31:03 -0500
Subject: [matroska-devel] Help from Nic
Message-ID: <b7pckp$iu5$1@main.gmane.org>

Here's the reply I got from Nic when I asked him about helping with AAC and
DShow:



Hi spyder,

If you want any help stopping the crashing of mkv files, then put the source
of the dshow filter into cvs and ill have a look. Ive become quite a veteran
of fixing dshow crashes

have you checked out borg software's one ? There AAC filter isn't as good as
mine (but I dont know why). But the source is neat and there to be fixed.

Out of interest, if you mux a VBR MP3 thats had a WAV header attached, and
then mux it into MKV file as a wav file, how well does it play back? If it
plays back well, then the same can be done with AAC. If not then you'll need
to make an AAC parser (that takes the individual frames out of the AAC file
and mux it "properly"  )

And I will drop by the channel soon, I have my gf here at present, but will
be free easter sunday & monday.

(Im quite interested in making my re-write of dvd2avi support mkv, but I
dont know how difficult or easy that will be compared to using something
like the AVI API (ill have to look at the CVS code). Maybe ill just make it
so it makes a script for MatroskaDUB (I dont know yet, only just really
thought about it  )

Sorry for the hurried PM, feel free to share this with anyone you think
might find it useful.

Take Care Spyder,
-Nic



begin 666 wink.gif
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M at OSTE__ZO_GQE>/<B/;NE,&[= ```*2DI"'Y! $``#\`+ `````/``\```:2
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M9.CZ-I=1,0+@^@PH-D4<'!\5``$*!34&'0D(11D9,(@%+PPL* D$,44D`0$#
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-R6I>P=#12<?5/T$`.P``
`
end

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M1TE&.#EA#P`/`-4_`/_XJ__XHO#HD/_XH-++?M_8AO_WF_'JD=7/@/_\U<[(
M?.KCC/_[TO_\V?_YL?_YL/_XI^[GC]W6A/_[SOWUF/_YM?_WG?KREO_[RO_\
MW/_[Q__ZO<?!=^;?BO_ZN^CAB_;NE/OSEO_XI?3MD_;ND__ZPL*\=<K#><O%
M>O[VF/OSE__\V/_YM/_[QO_ZO/_ZP/_YK^GBC/_[R?_\T__WF>':A__ZO]G2
M at OSTE_GQE>/<B/_\V__XJ,&[= ```*2DI"'Y! $``#\`+ `````/``\```:1
MP)]0Z"L6A\A?,;-B8%Y'I"^3V24F+<\#XAOZ5HW&56-C\2R7KI(Q*Y8\E6+H
MT/5I,++B`\#U'3XU11L;+A4``18&*@<=$@A%#@XPAP8T%"0Q$@0H12(!`0,&
M%#@Y$04$'"9%*6D@(P<""P4*/CT]=1$+/CH%CB>UMT0=!3=&1;;!1 @*',C(
,:E[ S]!)QM0_00`[
`
end


http://www.matroska.org


From chris at wiesneronline.net  Fri Apr 18 20:03:09 2003
From: chris at wiesneronline.net (Christian HJ Wiesner)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 13:03:09 -0500
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Help from Nic
In-Reply-To: <b7pckp$iu5$1@main.gmane.org>
References: <b7pckp$iu5$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <3EA03DDD.1000506@wiesneronline.net>


cc : matroska-devel at freelists dot org

Hi there Nic !

Glad to see you're alive. We made pretty good progress lately as spyder 
was pointing out already in the PM to you, we're looking forward to May 
1st when we plan to release everything we'll have by that time. The 
filter is wokring but has a couple of bugs, its in matroska CVS on  
http://corecodec.org/projects/matroska  ( we will abandone the sf.net 
site soon as they had big problems with CVS lately ). Anonymous access 
works, but just dont forget to use  :ext: instaed of :pserver: .

John Cannon wrote:

>Here's the reply I got from Nic when I asked him about helping with AAC and
>DShow:
>
>Hi spyder,
>
>If you want any help stopping the crashing of mkv files, then put the source
>of the dshow filter into cvs and ill have a look. Ive become quite a veteran
>of fixing dshow crashes
>
>have you checked out borg software's one ? There AAC filter isn't as good as
>mine (but I dont know why). But the source is neat and there to be fixed.
>  
>
AFAIK their filter will only work if the AAC was muxed into their own 
container, being called MPX . But maybe we could 'borrow' some code from 
them to make a general use filter, but we also plan to check if maybe 
your crappy beta will work fine from our parser filter ( in ACM 
compatibility mode ). But we are checking right now if maybe muxing AAC 
into matroska will work already, using your AAC2WAV, and then we will 
try to playback using your crappy beta filter ... Toff is on this now ( 
spyder made us curious ;) )

>Out of interest, if you mux a VBR MP3 thats had a WAV header attached, and
>then mux it into MKV file as a wav file, how well does it play back? If it
>plays back well, then the same can be done with AAC. If not then you'll need
>to make an AAC parser (that takes the individual frames out of the AAC file
>and mux it "properly"  )
>  
>
Yup, works fine. As said above, we are testing with AAC right now.

>And I will drop by the channel soon, I have my gf here at present, but will
>be free easter sunday & monday.
>(Im quite interested in making my re-write of dvd2avi support mkv, but I
>dont know how difficult or easy that will be compared to using something
>like the AVI API (ill have to look at the CVS code). Maybe ill just make it
>so it makes a script for MatroskaDUB (I dont know yet, only just really
>thought about it  )
>-Nic
>
You're more than welcome, as always Nic ! Dont forget we are not on 
openprojects anymore, but on irc.corecodec.com , #matroska

Christian


http://www.matroska.org


From moritz at bunkus.org  Sat Apr 19 01:01:05 2003
From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus)
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 01:01:05 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Help from Nic
In-Reply-To: <b7pckp$iu5$1@main.gmane.org>
References: <b7pckp$iu5$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20030418230105.GR27965@bunkus.org>

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From spyder482 at yahoo.com  Sat Apr 19 04:00:14 2003
From: spyder482 at yahoo.com (John Cannon)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 21:00:14 -0500
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Help from Nic
References: <b7pckp$iu5$1@main.gmane.org> <20030418230105.GR27965@bunkus.org>
Message-ID: <b7qaff$alb$1@main.gmane.org>

> Please, please, PLEASE!! Do NOT put audio files with a wav header into
> Matroska. This is broken by design, unclean, and only because
> Windows/DS/whatever has servere problems with that stuff. Any audio
> track with a proper ID (e.g. A_DOL_AC3 or A_MPEGLAYER3) should ONLY
> contain the audio packets themselves.

Relax.  This is merely a proof of concept idea.  I would never support it as
a final solution especially since AAC should not need any WAV header data :P

Spyder



http://www.matroska.org


From steve.lhomme at free.fr  Sat Apr 19 08:48:19 2003
From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme)
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 08:48:19 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Help from Nic
In-Reply-To: <b7qaff$alb$1@main.gmane.org>
References: <b7pckp$iu5$1@main.gmane.org> <20030418230105.GR27965@bunkus.org> <b7qaff$alb$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <3EA0F133.5040300@free.fr>


John Cannon wrote:
>>Please, please, PLEASE!! Do NOT put audio files with a wav header into
>>Matroska. This is broken by design, unclean, and only because
>>Windows/DS/whatever has servere problems with that stuff. Any audio
>>track with a proper ID (e.g. A_DOL_AC3 or A_MPEGLAYER3) should ONLY
>>contain the audio packets themselves.
> 
> 
> Relax.  This is merely a proof of concept idea.  I would never support it as
> a final solution especially since AAC should not need any WAV header data :P

I think there might be some misunderstanding here. Maybe Nic just wanted 
to know if the same data would play... For WAV compatibility, we have 
the A_ACM codec (or something like that) that has *all* the same 
informations as in a simple WAV file with any codec. So it has to be 
supported anyway.


http://www.matroska.org


From moritz at bunkus.org  Sat Apr 19 18:37:52 2003
From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus)
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 18:37:52 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Help from Nic
In-Reply-To: <3EA0F133.5040300@free.fr>
References: <b7qaff$alb$1@main.gmane.org> <3EA0F133.5040300@free.fr>
Message-ID: <20030419163752.GW27965@bunkus.org>

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From igork at tht.net  Fri Apr 18 23:12:33 2003
From: igork at tht.net (igork-tht)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 17:12:33 -0400
Subject: [matroska-devel] demux filter
Message-ID: <000001c305ef$3e0407c0$7124fea9@flicker>


Hi!
Finally I've got time to have a look at the filter <g>
Did not look into details yet, so these are only my first impressions:
1. It basically works!
2. Audio playback experiences regular intermittent distortions (perhaps
demux should implement IQualityControl, although reasons may be
numerous)
3. No "progress bar" in the GraphEdit (of, course IMediaSeeking is not
implemented yet)
4. attempt to stop the graph reproducibly hangs up GraphEdit [v9.0].

I think all of the above listed issues are known, though.
Overall - VERY good job!

Btw, have a question about VirtualDubMod:
I am transcoding DIV3 AVI file into matroska format using VirtualDubMod
and it works just fine. Then I am trying to open resulting mkv file in
VirtualDubMod, and it causes crash [always after parsing is done]. The
very same mkv file is playing in graphedit [using demuxer filter] just
fine.
Is it a known issue? What could be the reason? 
Igor. 

http://www.matroska.org


From spyder at wiesneronline.net  Fri Apr 18 23:36:09 2003
From: spyder at wiesneronline.net (John Cannon)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 16:36:09 -0500
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: demux filter
References: <000001c305ef$3e0407c0$7124fea9@flicker>
Message-ID: <001601c305f2$87a18580$1c89b141@johnc>


> Btw, have a question about VirtualDubMod:
> I am transcoding DIV3 AVI file into matroska format using VirtualDubMod
> and it works just fine. Then I am trying to open resulting mkv file in
> VirtualDubMod, and it causes crash [always after parsing is done]. The
> very same mkv file is playing in graphedit [using demuxer filter] just
> fine.
> Is it a known issue? What could be the reason?
> Igor.

Heh, myabe Cyrius hasn't fixed the reading code in VDubMod yet.  We recently
had some changed in the API and he may not have fixed this yet.  Mine
doesn't crash in the same situation so maybe you can give more details about
your file(audio streams, etc.) and Cyrius maybe can fix it ;)

John

http://www.matroska.org


From moritz at bunkus.org  Sun Apr 20 18:01:17 2003
From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus)
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 18:01:17 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] filesize comparison
Message-ID: <20030420160117.GA27965@bunkus.org>

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From moritz at bunkus.org  Sun Apr 20 18:50:19 2003
From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus)
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 18:50:19 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: filesize comparison
In-Reply-To: <20030420160117.GA27965@bunkus.org>
References: <20030420160117.GA27965@bunkus.org>
Message-ID: <20030420165019.GB27965@bunkus.org>

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From blacksun at corecodec.com  Mon Apr 21 14:04:27 2003
From: blacksun at corecodec.com (Ludovic "BlackSun" Vialle)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 14:04:27 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: filesize comparison
In-Reply-To: <20030420160117.GA27965@bunkus.org>
References: <20030420160117.GA27965@bunkus.org>
Message-ID: <b80m7j$pmj$1@main.gmane.org>


Nice comparison, matroska is way better than avi and ogm :D

Moritz Bunkus wrote:
> Hi everyone.
> 
> After modifying my cue creation code (it's more flexible now - for each
> track I can either not create an index at all, only include blocks which
> contain I frames or include all blocks) I've done some file size
> comparisons. Here are the results:
> 
> I first started with a movie, 'The Transporter'. The original is an XviD
> with VBR MP3 which I converted to several Matroska files:
> 
> 734322688 The Transporter.avi
> 
> The standard mode will be not to create cue entries for audio tracks and
> only include blocks that contain I frames for video tracks which results
> in...
> 
> 729528113 The Transporter (cues for I-frames).mkv
> 
> gain (bytes): 4794575 ( = 4.57MB)
> gain (%):       0.65%
> 
> 0.65% does not sound like a big deal, but I think that 4.57MB is quite a
> nice number ;)
> 
> Next in line is a file with cue entries for ALL video frames but not for
> the audio track:
> 
> 734305441 The Transporter (cues for ALL video frames).mkv
> 
> gain (bytes): 17247 ;)
> 
> Still a bit smaller than the original which I quite like.
> 
> The last case is a file with cue entries for all frames for all
> tracks. This seems quite brain damaged, but what the hell, for the sake
> of completeness I tried this one as well:
> 
> 737116933 The Transporter (cues for ALL frames).mkv
> 
> loss (bytes): 2794245 ( = 2.66MB)
> loss (%):       0.38%
> 
> Ok, so much for a movie. Now I wanted to see how 'bad' Matroska is when
> it comes to creating audio only files. Of course MP3 embedded in
> Matroska will be bigger, but Vorbis in Matroska is more
> interesting. Here are the results (with a maximum cluster length of
> 5seconds):
> 
> 3126224 Groove Armada - Suntoucher (quality 0).ogg
> 3142978 Groove Armada - Suntoucher (quality 0).mkv
> 
> loss (bytes): 16754 ( = 0.016MB)
> loss (%): 0.54%
> 
> 5589519 Groove Armada - Suntoucher (quality 4).ogg
> 5590208 Groove Armada - Suntoucher (quality 4).mkv
> 
> loss (bytes): 689 ( = 0.001MB)
> loss (%): 0.01%
> 
> 8000896 Groove Armada - Suntoucher (--alt-preset 160).mp3
> 8060098 Groove Armada - Suntoucher (--alt-preset 160).mkv
> 
> loss (bytes): 59202 ( = 0.056MB)
> loss (%): 0.74%
> 
> So it looks like that Matroska is as good as Ogg at middle bitrates
> while it's definitly 'worse' at very low bitrates. But hey - that's what
> Ogg is optimized for.
> 
> All in all I'm pretty happy with the results. Of course they cannot be
> generalized with such few samples. But it should show the direction that
> Matroska files will take - which is video and audio, not only audio. My
> summary is "yeah! go get 'em!" :)
> 


http://www.matroska.org


From moritz at bunkus.org  Sun Apr 20 21:54:25 2003
From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus)
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 21:54:25 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] another bug? with references
Message-ID: <20030420195424.GC27965@bunkus.org>

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From moritz at bunkus.org  Mon Apr 21 11:01:06 2003
From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 11:01:06 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] state of mkvtoolnix
Message-ID: <20030421090105.GD27965@bunkus.org>

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From steve.lhomme at free.fr  Mon Apr 21 14:48:44 2003
From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 14:48:44 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: state of mkvtoolnix
In-Reply-To: <20030421090105.GD27965@bunkus.org>
References: <20030421090105.GD27965@bunkus.org>
Message-ID: <3EA3E8AC.1060104@free.fr>


Moritz Bunkus wrote:
> Hi guys.
> 
> I thought I'd update you on the state of mkvtoolnix and the mplayer
> demuxer patch now that the release date is close.
> 
> I have to say I'm quite happy with the state that mkvtoolnix is
> in. mkvinfo is in pretty good shape and adding support for any missing
> element is really easy. So far i can show each element that I've
> encountered so far in my own test files and Cyrius' test files and even
> some more. It has proven itself priceless because it is my primary
> debugging tool which enabled me to find bugs both in mkvmerge and in
> libmatroska itself (no disrespect, Steve, your work's great, but
> everyone makes mistakes, I know that well enough from my own ;)).

I know I make a lot of bugs. No offense here :)
BTW, congratulation for all your tools ! It sounds very great :)

Also, I'm back now and will work a lot on matroska. Even though I don't 
have ADSL working now (no big test files for me).

http://www.matroska.org


From Paul at msn.com  Tue Apr 22 17:34:43 2003
From: Paul at msn.com (Pamel)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 10:34:43 -0500
Subject: [matroska-devel] List of Matroska tags
Message-ID: <b83nco$mta$1@main.gmane.org>

Here are the lists of tags that I'm working on.  I have not sat down and
filled out all of the definitions yet, but that is in the works.
http://www.jkfanclub.com:81/matroskatags6.xls
Here is a list of the structures for the multi entities.
http://www.jkfanclub.com:81/multitags.xls
And here are the types for the multi entities.
http://www.jkfanclub.com:81/MultiCommercial.xls
http://www.jkfanclub.com:81/MultiDates.xls
http://www.jkfanclub.com:81/MultiEntities.xls
http://www.jkfanclub.com:81/MultiIdentifiers.xls
http://www.jkfanclub.com:81/MultiLegal.xls
http://www.jkfanclub.com:81/MultiTitle.xls

Feel free to comment on these.


Pamel



http://www.matroska.org


From steve.lhomme at free.fr  Fri Apr 25 15:51:58 2003
From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 15:51:58 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] Feature Freeze
Message-ID: <3EA93D7E.4020904@free.fr>


Hi everyone,

First let me thank you for all the work that has been done during the 
last month. The current status is very encouraging. And the promises of 
the format start to emerge slowly. I think 01/05/03 will be a great day 
for us :)

To preparing our first public appearance, we need to be ready with our 
tools to support the minimum but support it well. With help from testers 
and curious people will be able to spot and correct 
problems/inefficiencies later.

So I think we need to define a feature freeze for the code and spend a 
few more days on debugging the code during the remaining days to 01/05. 
What about sunday 27 european evening ?

After this date we won't add new features (like chapters, new tags, etc) 
but we'll make sure the ones we support work according to the specs. 
We'll also have to test that files created with A can be read with B for 
all known tools.

What should be supported to this date :
- Meta Seek (added yesterday in libmatroska)
- Cue entries
- Track parsing
- Segment + Block parsing
- BlockDuration read/write
- lacing read/write

And the list of codecs that Christian already mentionned. (maybe with 
some subtitle ones)

We might also add some test for reading damaged files and incomplete files.

http://www.matroska.org


From chris at matroska.org  Fri Apr 25 18:45:28 2003
From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 18:45:28 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Feature Freeze
In-Reply-To: <3EA93D7E.4020904@free.fr>
References: <3EA93D7E.4020904@free.fr>
Message-ID: <3EA96628.8050506@matroska.org>


Steve Lhomme wrote:

>Hi everyone,
>
>First let me thank you for all the work that has been done during the 
>last month. The current status is very encouraging. And the promises of 
>the format start to emerge slowly. I think 01/05/03 will be a great day 
>for us :)
>  
>
I am soooo excited about this day, believe me. Not only will we prove to 
the people screaming 'vapourware !!' all the time that this project is 
successful and has a great future, but i am also curious about the users 
who expressed their interest in matroska, if they will accept the 
container and stop using OGM for matroska now. Of course, i guess i 
could enjoy the situation much more if little Iris was better, but maybe 
i can give some good news here also until release day.

>To preparing our first public appearance, we need to be ready with our 
>tools to support the minimum but support it well. With help from testers 
>and curious people will be able to spot and correct 
>problems/inefficiencies later.
>
>So I think we need to define a feature freeze for the code and spend a 
>few more days on debugging the code during the remaining days to 01/05. 
>What about sunday 27 european evening ?
>  
>
No objections from my side. Freezing features makes sense to me and the 
date seems reasonable. Any other opinions ?

>After this date we won't add new features (like chapters, new tags, etc) 
>but we'll make sure the ones we support work according to the specs. 
>We'll also have to test that files created with A can be read with B for 
>all known tools.
>
>What should be supported to this date :
>- Meta Seek (added yesterday in libmatroska)
>- Cue entries
>- Track parsing
>- Segment + Block parsing
>- BlockDuration read/write
>- lacing read/write
>And the list of codecs that Christian already mentionned. (maybe with 
>some subtitle ones)
>  
>
It would be a peersonal dream of mine if matroska could come with USF 
support right from the start, but thats maybe not more than a dream. 
About the codecs we do already support, we are fine with what we have 
right now, being

XviD
DivX
MP3
MP2 ( does the DSF work ? )
Vorbis

>We might also add some test for reading damaged files and incomplete files.
>  
>
In principal there should be work already on a matroska file 
checking/repair tool, but the guy who wnated to do it ( thana ) never 
showed up after claiming he will look into it ... :sigh:  ... maybe 
thats spyder's fault because he didnt make javatroska for him  :P  ( 
again, of course, who's fault should it be else ;) .. ) ....

Christian

http://www.matroska.org


From blacksun at corecodec.com  Sat Apr 26 23:44:45 2003
From: blacksun at corecodec.com (Ludovic "BlackSun" Vialle)
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 23:44:45 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Feature Freeze
In-Reply-To: <3EA96628.8050506@matroska.org>
References: <3EA93D7E.4020904@free.fr> <3EA96628.8050506@matroska.org>
Message-ID: <b8eu39$cu2$1@main.gmane.org>


Christian HJ Wiesner wrote:

> XviD
> DivX
> MP3
> MP2 ( does the DSF work ? )
> Vorbis

AC3 and WAV also. I tested AC3 through my SPDIF output (ext. Dolby 
decoder) and it played fine :)




http://www.matroska.org


From Paul at msn.com  Sat Apr 26 16:13:38 2003
From: Paul at msn.com (Pamel)
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 09:13:38 -0500
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Feature Freeze
References: <3EA93D7E.4020904@free.fr>
Message-ID: <b8e43q$u0o$1@main.gmane.org>

"Steve Lhomme" <steve.lhomme at free.fr> wrote
> After this date we won't add new features (like chapters, new tags, etc)
> but we'll make sure the ones we support work according to the specs.
> We'll also have to test that files created with A can be read with B for
> all known tools.

I was thinking that maybe we shouldn't freeze the specs for the tags just
yet.  I just barely finished uploading the rest of the HTML files last night
and I think it will take a little while for everyone to review them and make
changes where necessary.  They certainly aren't perfect yet, and even I had
some questions that I wanted to go over.  Perhaps because they are contained
on a seperate HTML page it won't be such a pig deal?


Pamel



http://www.matroska.org


From steve.lhomme at free.fr  Sat Apr 26 17:47:28 2003
From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme)
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 17:47:28 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Feature Freeze
In-Reply-To: <b8e43q$u0o$1@main.gmane.org>
References: <3EA93D7E.4020904@free.fr> <b8e43q$u0o$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <3EAAAA10.20607@free.fr>


Pamel wrote:
> "Steve Lhomme" <steve.lhomme at free.fr> wrote
> 
>>After this date we won't add new features (like chapters, new tags, etc)
>>but we'll make sure the ones we support work according to the specs.
>>We'll also have to test that files created with A can be read with B for
>>all known tools.
> 
> 
> I was thinking that maybe we shouldn't freeze the specs for the tags just
> yet.  I just barely finished uploading the rest of the HTML files last night
> and I think it will take a little while for everyone to review them and make
> changes where necessary.  They certainly aren't perfect yet, and even I had
> some questions that I wanted to go over.  Perhaps because they are contained
> on a seperate HTML page it won't be such a pig deal?

A pig deal ?
Anyway don't expect too much review from outsiders... It never happened 
so far (or we never knew), so it's unlikely to happen in the future.

http://www.matroska.org


From srirampondy at rediffmail.com  Sat Apr 26 13:36:40 2003
From: srirampondy at rediffmail.com (Sriram  Srinivasan)
Date: 26 Apr 2003 11:36:40 -0000
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: C wrapper for the C++ library
Message-ID: <20030426113640.15877.qmail@webmail25.rediffmail.com>

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From moritz at bunkus.org  Sat Apr 26 17:42:42 2003
From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus)
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 17:42:42 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] bad news :(
Message-ID: <20030426154241.GF4013@bunkus.org>


Hi.

Now that I've got your attention... I only wanted to mention that I'm
happily seeking around in my Matroska with mplayer at the moment ;)

(Ok, so far it only works if a) there are cue entries for the track in
question and b) there's a seek head element at the front of the file
which points to those cues, but hey, I'm happy as a fish in the water
right now :))

-- 
 ==> Ciao, Mosu (Moritz Bunkus)
http://www.matroska.org


From steve.lhomme at free.fr  Sat Apr 26 17:48:32 2003
From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme)
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 17:48:32 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: bad news :(
In-Reply-To: <20030426154241.GF4013@bunkus.org>
References: <20030426154241.GF4013@bunkus.org>
Message-ID: <3EAAAA50.5070303@free.fr>


Moritz Bunkus wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> Now that I've got your attention... I only wanted to mention that I'm
> happily seeking around in my Matroska with mplayer at the moment ;)
> 
> (Ok, so far it only works if a) there are cue entries for the track in
> question and b) there's a seek head element at the front of the file
> which points to those cues, but hey, I'm happy as a fish in the water
> right now :))

Fantastic !!!!
BTW, MooDub also produce such files so all existing files will be like 
that :)

http://www.matroska.org


From moritz at bunkus.org  Sat Apr 26 17:54:20 2003
From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus)
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 17:54:20 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: bad news :(
In-Reply-To: <3EAAAA50.5070303@free.fr>
References: <20030426154241.GF4013@bunkus.org> <3EAAAA50.5070303@free.fr>
Message-ID: <20030426155420.GG4013@bunkus.org>


Hi.

> Fantastic !!!!

:)

> BTW, MooDub also produce such files so all existing files will be like 
> that :)

Sure. However I want to add some fallbacks:

1. If there's no KaxSeekHead then the demuxer should skip over all level
   1 elements and parse the cues once it finds them.
2. If there are no cue entries at all then the demuxer should at least
   be able to approximate the position by taking into account both the
   last timecode encountered and the last file position it was
   encountered at (that's what the Ogg/Ogm demuxer does). It's far from
   perfect, especially when you seek right at the beginning when there's
   not much data, but it's better than nothing at all ;)

However I'm now at a stage in which I can definnitely include the
Matroska demuxer into mplayer's main CVS branch (not into the stable
0_90 branch obviously ;)), and if nothing goes wrong I'll do that
tomorrow.

-- 
 ==> Ciao, Mosu (Moritz Bunkus)
http://www.matroska.org


From steve.lhomme at free.fr  Sat Apr 26 17:57:30 2003
From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme)
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 17:57:30 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: bad news :(
In-Reply-To: <20030426155420.GG4013@bunkus.org>
References: <20030426154241.GF4013@bunkus.org> <3EAAAA50.5070303@free.fr> <20030426155420.GG4013@bunkus.org>
Message-ID: <3EAAAC6A.7000207@free.fr>


Moritz Bunkus wrote:
> However I'm now at a stage in which I can definnitely include the
> Matroska demuxer into mplayer's main CVS branch (not into the stable
> 0_90 branch obviously ;)), and if nothing goes wrong I'll do that
> tomorrow.

2x great.
Be carefull when you commit C++ code in there ;)


http://www.matroska.org


From chris at matroska.org  Sat Apr 26 23:37:09 2003
From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner)
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 23:37:09 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: bad news :(
In-Reply-To: <20030426155420.GG4013@bunkus.org>
References: <20030426154241.GF4013@bunkus.org> <3EAAAA50.5070303@free.fr> <20030426155420.GG4013@bunkus.org>
Message-ID: <3EAAFC05.7050002@matroska.org>


Moritz Bunkus wrote:

>However I'm now at a stage in which I can definnitely include the
>Matroska demuxer into mplayer's main CVS branch (not into the stable
>0_90 branch obviously ;)), and if nothing goes wrong I'll do that
>tomorrow.
>  
>
Mosu, you saved my whole week with these lines :D !!

http://www.matroska.org


From chris at matroska.org  Sat Apr 26 23:21:35 2003
From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner)
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 23:21:35 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] Alternatives to FLAC for lossless audio compression
Message-ID: <3EAAF85F.4000505@matroska.org>



Hi,

just for your information, there is more ( and maybe even better 
alternatives ) than FLAC out there to make one of our dreams come true 
one day ( lossless audio captuing from VdubMod into matroska ). A very 
good comparison page seems to be here : 
http://web.inter.nl.net/users/hvdh/lossless/lossless.htm . I am listing 
a few ( not all ) of them here :

1. WAVPACK : http://www.wavpack.com/

David Bryant is the author, and i am copying Roberto Amorim on this 
email with the request to forward this email to David if he was maybe 
interested to look at matroska to have a container for storage/tagging 
purposes ? I hope we could have a Wavpack DirectShow plugin for TCMP one 
day ? Its opensource and seems to be more effective than FLAC ?

2. OptimFROG : http://ghido.shelter.ro/

Downside : not Opensource i guess, at least i couldnt find any sources 
on his download page, that makes it hard to integrate into VdubMod

3. LA : http://www.lossless-audio.com/

Same as 2. no source available


In terms of speed ( CPU cycles ) vs. efficiency it seems that Wavpack 
can absolutley compete with FLAC, as you can see from the graphs in the 
comparison link give above.


Should we change our minds and maybe prefer Wavpack for our preferred 
lossless audio compressor ? Especially as FLAC is a part of Xiph and has 
tools to mux it into Ogg container ?

What you think ?


Christian

http://www.matroska.org


From moritz at bunkus.org  Mon Apr 28 08:53:30 2003
From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 08:53:30 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] tag names
Message-ID: <20030428065330.GM4013@bunkus.org>

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From steve.lhomme at free.fr  Mon Apr 28 10:20:11 2003
From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 10:20:11 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: tag names
In-Reply-To: <20030428065330.GM4013@bunkus.org>
References: <20030428065330.GM4013@bunkus.org>
Message-ID: <1051518011.3eace43bcdca6@imp.free.fr>


En r?ponse ? Moritz Bunkus <moritz at bunkus.org>:

> Hi.

Hi Moritz,

> Just read the following in the logs:
> 
> KaxTagMultiCommercialMultiPricePriceDate_TheId
> 
> Two things...
> 
> 1) this is LONG! It's 46 characters long!? Your typical C/C++ source
>    code has lines that aren't longer than 79 chars under Linux/Unix
> and
>    with an identifier this long you'll start to get problems VERY
>    soon. Especially if this is a level 4/5 element - then the
>    indentation I have to use already takes up about 30 or more
>    characters.

Sure, that's probably not a good example. When I create class, I only use the
name at the level and maybe the direct upper level, no more. It should already
give a unique name.
 
> Can't you think of a better naming scheme? A shorter one? Pleeeeaase? :)

See above

> 2) Why use underscores? So far no class name contains underscores. Why
>    start now? It's more consistent not to use them and just keep up
> with
>    the upper character on each word boundary scheme :)
> 
> Lately I've criticised several of such small inconsistencies, but I
> think about other people who will be using this library. In a lot of
> cases inconsistent names/function arguments tend to confuse people. I
> just want to keep the library as consistent in itself as possible.

I agree.

> Oh another thing: Steve: why do the function names in IOCallback not
> start capitalized like all the other classes' functions? :)
> (e.g. getFilePointer, setFilePointer)

Because Ingo wrote these classes not me.
Instead of fixing such things, I may rewrite the IO system because that's the
only file that may have license problems (even though Ingo didn't make any
problem so far)... For example he uses throw which I want to remove from the lib.
http://www.matroska.org


From moritz at bunkus.org  Tue Apr 29 10:39:41 2003
From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus)
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 10:39:41 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] Seeking algorithm
Message-ID: <20030429083941.GT4013@bunkus.org>

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From steve.lhomme at free.fr  Tue Apr 29 11:27:01 2003
From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme)
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:27:01 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Seeking algorithm
In-Reply-To: <20030429083941.GT4013@bunkus.org>
References: <20030429083941.GT4013@bunkus.org>
Message-ID: <1051608421.3eae45659a9a4@imp.free.fr>


En r?ponse ? Moritz Bunkus <moritz at bunkus.org>:

> BTW: Steve, this does of course not mean that you shouldn't fix that
> FindNextElement bug ;)

Sure, I will check that.

Yesterday I introduced a break in FindNextElement that will avoid a memmove in
many cases. It might speed up a bit the byte by byte seeking. But I'll check the
algo to see where it could be faster (avoiding copying many times the same data).

The bug that Mosu mentions is that when seeking to an arbitrary position in the
file, FindNextElement fails to find a proper Cluster element (even though there
is one). I'll check that ASAP.
http://www.matroska.org


From steve.lhomme at free.fr  Tue Apr 29 14:22:36 2003
From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme)
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:22:36 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [matroska-devel] Let's prepare 01/05
Message-ID: <1051618956.3eae6e8c13038@imp.free.fr>


As we are less than 2 days before 01/05, we need to all get ready for our public
launch.

The most important is to have spec compliant files (hopefully the lib ensures a
lot about that) that will be forward compatible (that means all current features
used will be freezed in the specs).

I propose that we release internally all the tools we have in Release mode (ie
not debug compilation) and make them available to us (link available only on IRC
and the private "testing" forum on CC). Then we'll try to play files from one
tools with the other tomorrow (30/04) and correct bugs where they are (not
adding features).

This internal build freeze should happen tonight or tomorrow at 00:00 CET (GMT+1).

So Mosu, Cyrius, myFUN, get ready for tonight !
http://www.matroska.org


From steve.lhomme at free.fr  Tue Apr 29 14:27:05 2003
From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme)
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:27:05 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Let's prepare 01/05
In-Reply-To: <1051618956.3eae6e8c13038@imp.free.fr>
References: <1051618956.3eae6e8c13038@imp.free.fr>
Message-ID: <1051619225.3eae6f990b0d9@imp.free.fr>


En r?ponse ? Steve Lhomme <steve.lhomme at free.fr>:

> So Mosu, Cyrius, myFUN, get ready for tonight !

And spyder, jcsston and myself !
http://www.matroska.org


From moritz at bunkus.org  Tue Apr 29 14:35:56 2003
From: moritz at bunkus.org (Moritz Bunkus)
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:35:56 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Let's prepare 01/05
In-Reply-To: <1051618956.3eae6e8c13038@imp.free.fr>
References: <1051618956.3eae6e8c13038@imp.free.fr>
Message-ID: <20030429123556.GU4013@bunkus.org>


Hi

> So Mosu, Cyrius, myFUN, get ready for tonight !

I'm so prepared I can barely walk!

-- 
 ==> Ciao, Mosu (Moritz Bunkus)
http://www.matroska.org


From steve.lhomme at free.fr  Tue Apr 29 14:44:05 2003
From: steve.lhomme at free.fr (Steve Lhomme)
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:44:05 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Let's prepare 01/05
In-Reply-To: <1051618956.3eae6e8c13038@imp.free.fr>
References: <1051618956.3eae6e8c13038@imp.free.fr>
Message-ID: <1051620245.3eae73954ceb9@imp.free.fr>


More on the subject,

Tomorrow evening we will have to collect all the binary and source packages (one
compressed archive for each) for all the tools we put in public :

# the DirectShow filter (apparently without seeking  )
# the special VirtualDubMod version that can read/write matroska files
# the command line tools under linux to read/write matroska files
# the special build of MPlayer for linux that can play matroska files (seeking
working)
# mpa2mka (+ GUI ?)
# wav2mka (+ GUI ?)

We'll make the announcement once everything is up and running on Sourceforge...
http://www.matroska.org


From jcsston at ToughGuy.net  Tue Apr 29 21:30:33 2003
From: jcsston at ToughGuy.net (Jory)
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:30:33 -0500
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Let's prepare 01/05
References: <1051618956.3eae6e8c13038@imp.free.fr> <1051620245.3eae73954ceb9@imp.free.fr>
Message-ID: <003b01c30e85$d8021440$1300a8c0@jcsston>



----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Lhomme" <steve.lhomme at free.fr>
To: <matroska-devel at freelists.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 7:44 AM
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Let's prepare 01/05


>
> More on the subject,
>
> Tomorrow evening we will have to collect all the binary and source
packages (one
> compressed archive for each) for all the tools we put in public :
>
> # the DirectShow filter (apparently without seeking  )
> # the special VirtualDubMod version that can read/write matroska files
> # the command line tools under linux to read/write matroska files
> # the special build of MPlayer for linux that can play matroska files
(seeking
> working)
> # mpa2mka (+ GUI ?)
> # wav2mka (+ GUI ?)
I combined both mpa2mka and wav2mka into one GUI. It looks at the file
extension to find out what type the source file is.
>
> We'll make the announcement once everything is up and running on
Sourceforge...
> http://www.matroska.org


http://www.matroska.org


From Paul at msn.com  Wed Apr 30 04:21:18 2003
From: Paul at msn.com (Pamel)
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:21:18 -0500
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Let's prepare 01/05
References: <1051618956.3eae6e8c13038@imp.free.fr>
Message-ID: <b8nbsl$3fr$1@main.gmane.org>

"Steve Lhomme" <steve.lhomme at free.fr> wrote
> As we are less than 2 days before 01/05, we need to all get ready for our
public
> launch.

As a side note, we really need to put a logo on the homepage, build a page
with links to all of the files, and put instructions on how to install them
and what the limitations are.


Pamel



http://www.matroska.org


From Paul at msn.com  Wed Apr 30 05:37:19 2003
From: Paul at msn.com (Pamel)
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:37:19 -0500
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Let's prepare 01/05
References: <1051618956.3eae6e8c13038@imp.free.fr> <b8nbsl$3fr$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <b8ngbd$gf9$1@main.gmane.org>

"Pamel" <Paul at msn.com> wrote
> "Steve Lhomme" <steve.lhomme at free.fr> wrote
> > As we are less than 2 days before 01/05, we need to all get ready for
our
> public
> > launch.
>
> As a side note, we really need to put a logo on the homepage, build a page
> with links to all of the files, and put instructions on how to install
them
> and what the limitations are.

I just threw up my logo for the moment until one is decided on.  Christian,
you made the index.html changeable only by you.  I had to rename it to do
anything.  :P


Pamel



http://www.matroska.org


From chris at matroska.org  Wed Apr 30 10:07:43 2003
From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 10:07:43 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Let's prepare 01/05
In-Reply-To: <b8ngbd$gf9$1@main.gmane.org>
References: <1051618956.3eae6e8c13038@imp.free.fr> <b8nbsl$3fr$1@main.gmane.org> <b8ngbd$gf9$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <3EAF844F.3030101@matroska.org>


Pamel wrote:

>"Pamel" <Paul at msn.com> wrote
>  
>
> I just threw up my logo for the moment until one is decided on. Christian,
>
>you made the index.html changeable only by you.  I had to rename it to do
>anything.  :P
>Pamel
>  
>

Strange ! Why does WinSCP change the existing access rights for a file 
when loading a newer version of the same file ? BTW, i thought i had 
updated both websites, the

matroska.sf.net

and

matroska.corecodec.org

so what changes did you have to reload ?


About the links for release :

Well, its actually much easier than we thought. robux4 said he will make 
this page and include some important technical desciptions of how to 
handle the files, but basically we have

1. Mosu's Tools : He wants to have them on his server and distribute 
from there
2. VirtualdubMod : Will be distributed as the official VdubMod 1.5.x 
release, and from its very own sf.net site ... we only need to link to 
there ( http://sf.net/projects/virtualdubmod )
3. TCMP 'matroska release celebration edition' ( :D ) : will be 
dsitributed from the normal TCMP mirrors, so we only link to 
http://www.corecodeD.com
4. kaxdemux : already uploaded ( release compile that Blacksun sent me 
yesterday ) to http://www.matroska.org/downloads/kaxdemux.dll ( 
physically this is the matroska.sf.net site )
5. WAV2MKA, MPA2MKA, GUI's : Jory, i need last official release compiles 
to upload to same location

robux4 will summon these links on the above mentioned page with his 
technical descriptions, and put a HUGE link to this 'release' page on 
the main page ... Thats it !!

Christian


http://www.matroska.org


From chris at matroska.org  Tue Apr 29 17:31:12 2003
From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner)
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:31:12 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] Changing of the codec IDs for PCM
Message-ID: <3EAE9AC0.80007@matroska.org>



HI all,

as agreed on IRC today we will change the codec IDs for native PCM ( not 
ACM compatibility ) to

'A_PCMBIN' : Big Endian Integer

'A_PCMLIN' : Little Endian Integer

'A_PCMBFP' : Big Endian Floating Point

'A_PCMLFP' : Little Endian Floating Point

The bitdepth will disappear from the codec ID ( too many possibilities ) 
and should bet set/read in the according element

'KaxAudioBitDepth'

This makes implementation a little bit more difficult, but is more 
future proof. Please change all your tools accordingly until April 30th.

@jcsston : Jory, out of curiosity, does your WAV2MKA support 32 bit 
floats already on input ??

Regards

Christian

http://www.matroska.org


From chris at matroska.org  Tue Apr 29 18:08:02 2003
From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner)
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:08:02 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Changing of the codec IDs for PCM
In-Reply-To: <3EAE9AC0.80007@matroska.org>
References: <3EAE9AC0.80007@matroska.org>
Message-ID: <3EAEA362.8020502@matroska.org>


Everybody stop !!!

1. There are no Big Endian Floats we found out, all floats are IEEE floats

2. The naming sheme has to be changed completely, as Mosu and Cyrius 
think it is 'inconsistent' .... I'll work on a new solution this evening 
and tell you how we could do it then

Sorry for the inconcenience

Christian

Christian HJ Wiesner wrote:

>HI all,
>
>as agreed on IRC today we will change the codec IDs for native PCM ( not 
>ACM compatibility ) to
>
>'A_PCMBIN' : Big Endian Integer
>
>'A_PCMLIN' : Little Endian Integer
>
>'A_PCMBFP' : Big Endian Floating Point
>
>'A_PCMLFP' : Little Endian Floating Point
>
>The bitdepth will disappear from the codec ID ( too many possibilities ) 
>and should bet set/read in the according element
>
>'KaxAudioBitDepth'
>
>This makes implementation a little bit more difficult, but is more 
>future proof. Please change all your tools accordingly until April 30th.
>
>@jcsston : Jory, out of curiosity, does your WAV2MKA support 32 bit 
>floats already on input ??
>
>Regards
>
>Christian
>
>http://www.matroska.org
>
>  
>


http://www.matroska.org


From chris at matroska.org  Tue Apr 29 19:57:39 2003
From: chris at matroska.org (Christian HJ Wiesner)
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:57:39 +0200
Subject: [matroska-devel] Re: Changing of the codec IDs for PCM
In-Reply-To: <3EAE9AC0.80007@matroska.org>
References: <3EAE9AC0.80007@matroska.org>
Message-ID: <3EAEBD13.30701@matroska.org>


Ok,

the codec IDs have been redone now and found good from the EU devs ..... 
consider them fixed now :P

http://cvs.corecodec.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/~checkout~/matroska/doc/website/specs/codex.html?rev=HEAD&content-type=text/html

Please note that ALL apps have to be updated for the new IDs until 
tomorrow the latest !

Thanks

Christian

Christian HJ Wiesner wrote:

>HI all,
>
>as agreed on IRC today we will change the codec IDs for native PCM ( not 
>ACM compatibility ) to
>
>'A_PCMBIN' : Big Endian Integer
>
>'A_PCMLIN' : Little Endian Integer
>
>'A_PCMBFP' : Big Endian Floating Point
>
>'A_PCMLFP' : Little Endian Floating Point
>
>The bitdepth will disappear from the codec ID ( too many possibilities ) 
>and should bet set/read in the according element
>
>'KaxAudioBitDepth'
>
>This makes implementation a little bit more difficult, but is more 
>future proof. Please change all your tools accordingly until April 30th.
>
>@jcsston : Jory, out of curiosity, does your WAV2MKA support 32 bit 
>floats already on input ??
>
>Regards
>
>Christian
>
>http://www.matroska.org
>
>  
>


http://www.matroska.org